Wildlife

[George and Dragon]

16 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

My cat once bought home a duckling - not a mark on it. i popped it into the bath and called the RSPB (no reply) and RSPCA, who just ranted at me about against the law to take wild fowl from ... the wild...  I told them my cat didn't know that but i would make sure he's aware.....  he must be very bright as he's not done it again!

 

Did you not interrogate the cat to find out if he had, in fact, taken a wild duckling or a domesticated one?

[Ronaldo47]

A friend who lived in a rural village, had a large cat that regularly used to bring home baby rabbits that it would then proceed to eat indoors.  On one occasion it managed  to catch a pheasant, but couldn't get it through the cat flap. 

 

The cat at the Civil Service College used to catch mice at night and then line up its haul next to the entrance to the canteen for us to admire on our way into breakfast. It would then position  them  outside in front of the floor to ceiling windows of the canteen so we could watch it  devouring them while we were eating. It never caught birds.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

Wat an excellent and restrained answer. I think that if I had rung them for help and and had found myself on the receiving end of such an ear-bashing, my response would have been briefer and more terse.

   Most people think of the RSPCA as one of the "good guys"; so, would they rather not be informed about a possibly defenceless creature in need of help? 

It does seem that way unless they can prosecute someone.

[sueb]

22 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

So you cannot state how I was incorrect and come back asking me something that I havent even come close to suggesting.

 

Clue - Australia is a massive country and local areas can set their own bye laws much in the same way as councils can here.

 

Come back and try again when youve done proper research, like I said.

 

 

This is an entertainment forum for me NOT a university. 

[Jerra]

5 hours ago, robtheplod said:

My cat once bought home a duckling - not a mark on it. i popped it into the bath and called the RSPB (no reply) and RSPCA, who just ranted at me about against the law to take wild fowl from ... the wild...  I told them my cat didn't know that but i would make sure he's aware.....  he must be very bright as he's not done it again!

N.B.   The RSPB is NOT a rescue organisation.. They began as a lobby against the use of exotic bird feathers in millinery back in 1889 (they weren't Royal then just the Society for the protection of birds).

 

Now it still lobbies for the law to protect wildlife and helps protect them by having reserves and habitat improvement.   They have never been involved in the care of sick and injured birds.   There is no point calling them if you have that sort of a problem.  As the RSPB isn't involved with urgent things such as bird rescue manning phones isn't high on the charities agenda.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, sueb said:

This is an entertainment forum for me NOT a university. 

 

So you go ahead matey and continue posting misleading info.

 

Its not about being a University, its about just being correct.

 

BTW - No real research was required, a simple Google search would have sufficed.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by M_JG

[ditchcrawler]

29 minutes ago, M_JG said:

 

BTW - No real research was required, a simple Google search would have sufficed.

 

 

 

 

Its on the internet, it must be true

[Guest]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Its on the internet, it must be true

 

Fair enough.

 

Please Google it and confirm that Australia as an entire country has banned cats outside unless caged.

 

Google hits seem to confirm this in fact is not the case, including hits on Australian local council web sites. Its a regionally applied restriction on cats, Including even restrictions being applied differently within districts.

 

As it happens I also asked a family friend to find out as they are currently on holiday Oz.

 

Hope that helps.

[robtheplod]

17 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

 

Did you not interrogate the cat to find out if he had, in fact, taken a wild duckling or a domesticated one?

He wouldn't say..... he's like that!

[IanD]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

He wouldn't say..... he's like that!

His name isn't Pike by any chance? 🙂

[Slim]

On 04/12/2022 at 20:13, sueb said:

Cats kill wildlife. Australia is banning them from going outside unless caged. There are too many cats in this country often kept by vegetarians and pacifists Why? Just because they look cute>

So does man. 

[Athy]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its on the internet, it must be true

If I'm not mistaken, that's an update of a quote by Richmal Crompton's Just William: "I read it in a book, so it must be true".

[IanD]

Cats do kill *lots* of birds (and rabbits, and whatever else they can get their claws on), it's the nature of cats.

 

Not saying this is a good thing -- for example, the total number of birds they kill is way *way* higher than wind turbines which people protest about doing just this -- but the only solution is to keep them inside all the time (cruel to the cat) or ban them, which many cat-lovers would object to.

 

It does mean it's hypocritical for cat-owners to use this as a reason for not having wind turbines, though... 😉

[doratheexplorer]

22 hours ago, SandyD said:

Hi,

 

This thread got me thinking so I had a bit of a Google. The RSPB article - 

 

https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-for-wildlife/animal-deterrents/cats-and-garden-birds/are-cats-causing-bird-declines/

 

Which led to a BBC article - 

 

https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/pet-cats-have-up-to-10-times-larger-impact-on-wildlife-than-wild-predators/

 

And a couple of "papers" - 

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

 

https://www.mammal.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Domestic-Cat-Predation-on-Wildlife.pdf

 

But even without all this, it is obvious if domestic cats kill wildlife they are going to have an impact on those widlife populations, it is just a question of degree of impact. The argument that it is OK for the cats to take the sick and weak means that natural preadators have to then catch the fit and healthy! or eat somthing else, or starve. It also means that in good years the wildlife has less of a chance to "catch up" after a bad year.

And here's where the problem comes, when people just assume the answer because it's 'obvious'.  Actually it's far from obvious, as the research shows. 

 

Consider this, a cat kills mostly old, sick and weak birds.  This improves food availability to healthy, breeding birds who then breed more successfully and the overall population actually increases. 

 

There plenty of evidence that the UK's native fauna is so severely depleted partly because of a lack of predators in the ecosystem, keeping prey populations healthy.  Domestic cats may actually help to redress that imbalance.

 

But don't let that stop you hating on cats, because it's 'obvious'.

16 hours ago, sueb said:

This is an entertainment forum for me NOT a university. 

Tell us a joke then.

[SandyD]

SO domestic cats eating all the "easy" prey ( because there is a lack of preadators in the eco system*) is a good thing?

 

*I wonder if lack of prey is partially a cause of that? 

[tree monkey]

15 minutes ago, SandyD said:

SO domestic cats eating all the "easy" prey ( because there is a lack of preadators in the eco system*) is a good thing?

 

*I wonder if lack of prey is partially a cause of that? 

Generally ecosystems require predators to maintain healthy or balanced populations and habits, as a country we have killed most of our large predators and done a fine job reducing the numbers of the small predators as well.

 

What is being argued is domestic cats have stepped into the role of our lost small predators and apparently the research has shown this to be the case.

 

In most natural systems the predator numbers mirror the prey numbers quite closely and is quite finely balanced, the one thing that does make me hesitant about the cat predator thing is that in a natural system when prey numbers fall there is a corresponding fall in predators due to lack of resources, which obviously doesn't happen with cats.

 

That point aside, yes having a predator is a good thing, vital even, in any ecological system.

[rusty69]

Outside our window is an apple tree. The humans eat some of the apples that are within reach, but not those on the ground. The wasps like the apples too.The birds tend to peck at the apples on the ground, but generally not until they become softer in Oct/Nov. They don't seem to mind the wasps. I don't mind the wasps either. The cats are attracted by the birds, which are attracted by the apples, and the dogs to the cats.

 

The wind blows, replenishing the stock of apples on the ground. They are not eaten by the humans, as they are now on the ground. The humans didn't eat them prior to this as they were out of reach. As the apples soften, the fruit flies infest them, along with the inside of our boat. It is at this point, driven mad by playing the continual clap-clap game to kill the fruit flies that I generally remove some of the rotten apples.

 

However, the fruit flies are a good source of food for the bats, so I leave some of the apples that aren't infested by flies for the birds, and a few that are infested by flies for the bats, and also so I can play the clap-clap game in the boat, as its quite good exercise.

 

It is at this point, I usually sit down and congratulate myself that I have done as much for the various creatures and creepy crawly flying things that I can, only to watch the man with the lawnmower mash up the whole damn lot, including the dog sh*t.

[Chris Lowe]

On 03/12/2022 at 22:06, Jerra said:

Could you give a reference for that please?  As far as I know the British Trust for Ornithology who carry out all sorts of ornithology research have found no scientific evidence that the cats have reduced bird populations, so I would be interested to read the research on which you base that statement. 

Don't need research just experience, I used to live by the Thames on a mobile home site where pet cats where not allowed, I had a duck nest regular in my garden same place every year, then new site owners allowed cats & I never saw it again, also some ducks that had learnt to knock on front doors in the morning to get a free feed stopped visiting.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, buccaneer66 said:

Don't need research just experience, I used to live by the Thames on a mobile home site where pet cats where not allowed, I had a duck nest regular in my garden same place every year, then new site owners allowed cats & I never saw it again, also some ducks that had learnt to knock on front doors in the morning to get a free feed stopped visiting.

I am afraid all that proves is ducks have common sense.  It gives no idea as to what is happening country wide or for that matter that any ducks were harmed it merely shows they knew there was a predator and avoided coming into contact.

 

 

[tree monkey]

47 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

Don't need research just experience, I used to live by the Thames on a mobile home site where pet cats where not allowed, I had a duck nest regular in my garden same place every year, then new site owners allowed cats & I never saw it again, also some ducks that had learnt to knock on front doors in the morning to get a free feed stopped visiting.

I would argue what you saw there is actual natural reaction to a new predator in the area as apposed to the totaly unnatural behaviour of knocking on the door of a predator to beg food

 

Ahh I see Jerra has also made the point

Edited December 6, 2022 by tree monkey

[Guest]

We certainly see noticeably more birds in our garden since Harvey moved out with my daughter a few years ago.

 

We had some beautiful ??Wood Pigeons nesting in the trees at the bottom of the garden this year too.

[Ronaldo47]

On 04/12/2022 at 20:13, sueb said:

Cats kill wildlife. ........ There are too many cats in this country often kept by vegetarians and pacifists Why? Just because they look cute>

This reminds me of a work colleague who once mentioned that all his  vegetarian friend's cats used to leave him. The reason was almost certainly because he alway used to give them only vegetarian food, apparently either being unaware of, or unwilling to accept, the fact that cats are meat-eaters whose metabolism means they cannot  digest vegetables. So cats owned by similarly-principled vegetarians could be being forced to adopt a diet of wildlife to be able to survive. I well recall our cats periodically eating long grass or other green stuff to make themselves sick and seeming much better afterwards.  Their normal diet was tinned cat food (usually Kit-e-Kat) and raw beef stewing steak  on alternate days. Stewing steak was as cheap as horse meat from the animal food market stall in the 1950's, and a lot more pleasant to handle.   When tinned cat food was put in their dishes, they would first sniff at it and then go and miaow while  pawing on the door of the fridge where the stewing steak was kept, only reluctantly eating their tinned cat food when no steak was forthcoming.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo47 said:

This reminds me of a work colleague who once mentioned that all his  vegetarian friend's cats used to leave him. The reason was almost certainly because he alway used to give them only vegetarian food, apparently either being unaware of, or unwilling to accept, the fact that cats are meat-eaters whose metabolism means they cannot  digest vegetables. So cats owned by similarly-principled vegetarians could be being forced to adopt a diet of wildlife to be able to survive. I well recall our cats periodically eating long grass or other green stuff to make themselves sick and seeming much better afterwards.  Their normal diet was tinned cat food (usually Kit-e-Kat) and raw beef stewing steak  on alternate days. Stewing steak was as cheap as horse meat from the animal food market stall in the 1950's, and a lot more pleasant to handle.   When tinned cat food was put in their dishes, they would first sniff at it and then go and miaow while  pawing on the door of the fridge where the stewing steak was kept, only reluctantly eating their tinned cat food when no steak was forthcoming.

Grass is often eaten to cause vomiting when they have a troublesome fur ball to get out (at least when we had cats they did).

[Momac]

On 04/12/2022 at 20:51, sueb said:

. Iceland are cracking down as well, according to google. 

What are Tesco doing?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

What are Tesco doing?