Alterations to canal boat

[Tony Brooks]

Try looking at hire boats being sold off. Mine was as you described but it had a "standard" cruiser stern to which I fitted down sheets between the rail and hull.  That was until I took the two single berths out of the stern cabin to make it a sitting room. A hire boat may well have bunk beds but they tend to be e easier to convert to a fixed berth. Mine also had  an additional "room" with dinette double making 2 doubles and one single.

[peterselby]

Thank you that’s a lot of very good above, I have a mooring in leeds that is 60 feet for a narrow boat I thought best get the mooring before the boat if anyone knows of a boat for sale with something like I’m looking for that would be helpful, 

I guess being new to boating I’m on a learning curve I did a course for a day which was very helpful I’m hoping to be sailing leeds Wakefield York and Doncaster, people have told me a narrow beam is better to get around on, and the day course I did was a narrow boat, but you all may advise me I can have a wide berm of course I would need to them change moorings to a marina that has availability. 

10 hours ago, reg said:

I think with the scale of the changes and having specific requirements I would suggest that a new build is the only real option but then again it all depends on budget.

Making major alterations to an existing boat is, as others have said, not a trivial job a you will be paying for skilled labour. 

I would suggest looking at Lymm Marina range of shells and sailaways to get some idea of prices and what is achievable.

http://lmbs.co.uk/boats/narrowboat-lined-sailaway/

 

 

 

[peterselby]

Thank you I will look at this boat builder I’m not a DIY person so it would have to be fitted out I’m conscious the advice seems to be don’t go for a new build straight away.

 

I also see everyone’s point on how expensive alterations can be maybe I need to start looking at boats for sale to see if I can live with a different layout if I cannot find what I want 

 

does anyone know of a marina or boat sales company that would have several boats I can view I might just find what I’m looking for 

[peterselby]

9 hours ago, PD1964 said:

You haven’t mentioned what exactly you want?

How many 2nd hand boats have you actually viewed?

  Don’t think too much ”out of the box” or try to “reinvent the wheel” with your requirements, especially if you’ve never had or been on a boat for a period of time, as it could end up a very expensive mistake.

  What Stern are you after if not the standard Trad, Semi-Trad or Cruiser?

 

I’m looking for a cruiser stern or semitrad thank you 

I’m flexible if it was a new build  I think I’d be looking at £120,000

of it’s used which would be much more economical £50,000 to £70,000 ish I’m hoping would get me a nice boat. 

[PD1964]

30 minutes ago, peterselby said:

Thank you I will look at this boat builder I’m not a DIY person so it would have to be fitted out I’m conscious the advice seems to be don’t go for a new build straight away.

 

I also see everyone’s point on how expensive alterations can be maybe I need to start looking at boats for sale to see if I can live with a different layout if I cannot find what I want 

 

does anyone know of a marina or boat sales company that would have several boats I can view I might just find what I’m looking for 

You keep asking for help, but I can’t see anywhere of you actually saying what you want. Maybe you need to be more helpful yourself with the information.

Also haven’t got a clue why people are going on about enclosed rear cruiser sterns for dogs??

  You haven’t viewed boats yet so you don’t know what works and what doesn’t, I wouldn’t get fixated with your ideal layout boat until your actually viewed a few, you may actually like a few of them.

  Try this place, the nearest one to you with a few boats, as there’s nowhere in your area that has a massive selection, like some brokers further South.

https://www.nationwidenarrowboatsales.com/

Edited December 1, 2022 by PD1964

[Bee]

A narrowboat is a pretty basic structure, anything can be changed but if you want to start moving walls and things about then you will have problems with window spacing - inevitably they will all be in the wrong place. I would say that you need to look at lots of boats, see what you actually like and what you don't like and go from there. I would also guess that most of us who have been around for a while would approach things from a different way, see a boat, like the look of it, like the builder, the practical stuff, the machinery, the design, the age, make a guess at the condition of the steel under the water before paying for surveys etc. and then just have a quick look inside to see if its fairly practical and if it isn't start looking at what can be changed.

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Can you actually fit two permanent bedrooms and a bathroom (presumably with a bath) in a sixty footer and still have room for a kichen and somewhere for several people to sit in comfort and watch the telly? The cruiser stern will knock ten foot off the cabin, say five at the pointy end, 45 foot at most to play with. I'm used to small boats so I'd be interested in the answer.

I think a piece of graph paper and a pencil is required here.

The OP is up North, so I think he could opt for a widebeam (they can't fit narrow canals), though these are not so popular / available  as narrow beams . He should make sure his boat is no longer than 57ft.

Enclosed bedrooms in a narrow boat may be very claustrophobic difficult to ventilate, difficult to turn mattresses and make beds daily.

I think he should have a look at a few more boats, there is a reason why the standard layout has a diner which converts to a double bed. 

PS I would think there is very little privacy on a boat,just saying.

PPS I would ring shire Cruisers or other hire companies to see if they have any boats for sale or any suggestion. They also do work for boaters out of season at a price DAMHIK 

Edited December 1, 2022 by LadyG

[PD1964]

11 minutes ago, peterselby said:

 

I’m looking for a cruiser stern or semitrad thank you 

I’m flexible if it was a new build  I think I’d be looking at £120,000

of it’s used which would be much more economical £50,000 to £70,000 ish I’m hoping would get me a nice boat. 

 Have a look at this guy, maybe with a quick chat.

 

https://www.sellisboatfitters.co.uk/
 

  May be able to do a new build on your budget with an economy shell and he is near the link I gave you previously, so you could pop in.

[PD1964]

19 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The OP is up North, so I think he could opt for a widebeam, though these are not so popular / available  as narrow beams . He should make sure his boat is no longer than 57ft.

Enclosed bedrooms in a narrow boat may be very claustrophobic difficult to ventilate, difficult to turn mattresses and make beds daily.

I think he should have a look at a few more boats, there is a reason why the standard layout has a diner which converts to a double bed. 

PS I would think there is very little privacy on a boat,just saying

People are making assumptions to what he wants, where are people getting this 2x bedroom, enclosed rear deck for a dog, diner, widebeam from??

  Let the OP put his requirements(wish list) on and discuss them accordingly, instead of running away with the thread and taking it completely off track. I doubt he needs more ideas/what to look for, running around in his head

  Sorry missed his short thread about bedrooms/dog apologies .

Edited December 1, 2022 by PD1964

[haggis]

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

People are making assumptions to what he wants, where are people getting this 2x bedroom, enclosed rear deck for a dog, diner, widebeam from??

  Let the OP put his requirements(wish list) on and discuss them accordingly, instead of running away with the thread and taking it completely off track. I doubt he needs more ideas/what to look for, running around in his head.

He gave this information earlier in the thread. 

[PD1964]

6 minutes ago, haggis said:

He gave this information earlier in the thread. 

Thanks, sorry I missed that one, will will amend above.👍

[PD1964]

55 minutes ago, peterselby said:

 

I’m looking for a cruiser stern or semitrad thank you 

I’m flexible if it was a new build  I think I’d be looking at £120,000

of it’s used which would be much more economical £50,000 to £70,000 ish I’m hoping would get me a nice boat. 

 You’ll be very very lucky with a new build with a high requirement for £120K having just spoke to 3x builders, cheapest would be £140K ish and that’s a quality fit out but with not many bespoke extras/wish lists.

  As I say give the boatbuilder I mentioned above a ring, you’ve got nothing to loose.

  There will be cheaper builders out there, you’ll just have to find them.

  

Edited December 1, 2022 by PD1964

[matty40s]

This is the Black Prince sell off site, sign up and they let you know when hosts are coming to market 

https://www.black-prince.com/boat-sales/

[Jen-in-Wellies]

In addition to the extra berths, other advantages of an ex hire boat are:

• They will have been designed for ease of maintenance. Things like water pumps will be easily accessible. This can be a big problem with some fit outs as the people doing it may be more interested in it being pretty than actually easy to get to.
• They will have been built to meet the hire boat BSS requirements, so are sure to meet regular BSS.
• The engines will have done a lot of hours in the hands of a variety of users, but will have been well maintained.
• The fit out might be a bit basic and worn in places, but will be robust.
• They will probably be pump out loo. OK, if that is what you want.

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, peterselby said:

I also see everyone’s point on how expensive alterations can be maybe I need to start looking at boats for sale to see if I can live with a different layout if I cannot find what I want

 

From the way you write about the alterations you want, I can see you running up a bill of £50k easily, and possibly a whole lot more and actually reducing the resale value of the boat in doing so. 

 

Another aspect is timescale. Buy a boat now that seems closest to what you want and start boating tomorrow. If you build a new one or alter an existing, it will be a year at least before you get out on the water. Possibly several. 

 

 

[enigmatic]

If two bedrooms is the main requirement, ex-hire boats should have you sorted. I wouldn't get hung up on bathroom location and making a cruiser stern dog-proof is a *much* cheaper, quicker and easier job than altering a boat's internal layout (and a semi-trad is already dog proof...)

 

Hire companies sometime sell their old stock, especially in winter. Matty40s has already given you a link to one of the biggest ones, but there are plenty of individual boats with multi bedroom configurations out there too...

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/g-and-j-reeves-58-cruiser-stern-for-sale/716826

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/colecraft-57-cruiser-stern-for-sale/716751

[reg]

I did put a link to LYMM earlier but not sure if you saw it. I have just been looking at the sailaway page and notice it might answer some of your questions about specifically 

 

Dimensions

Costs for various levels of finish

 

http://lmbs.co.uk/boats/narrowboat-lined-sailaway/

 

I have no association with LYMM by the way I just reference it as they are good about providing up front information 

[PD1964]

43 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

From the way you write about the alterations you want, I can see you running up a bill of £50k easily, and possibly a whole lot more and actually reducing the resale value of the boat in doing so. 

 

Another aspect is timescale. Buy a boat now that seems closest to what you want and start boating tomorrow. If you build a new one or alter an existing, it will be a year at least before you get out on the water. Possibly several. 

 

 

Also could turn the pleasure of having a boat into a nightmare, just get a good quality 2nd hand boat(he has the budget) which fits most of your needs/requirements and enjoy it.

[reg]

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Also could turn the pleasure of having a boat into a nightmare, just get a good quality 2nd hand boat(he has the budget) which fits most of your needs/requirements and enjoy it.

I can't remember who said it sometime ago but It went something like for inexperienced new owners

Your first new build is the boat you thought you wanted but it isn't

 

[cuthound]

5 hours ago, peterselby said:

 

I’m looking for a cruiser stern or semitrad thank you 

I’m flexible if it was a new build  I think I’d be looking at £120,000

of it’s used which would be much more economical £50,000 to £70,000 ish I’m hoping would get me a nice boat. 

 

A trad stern with the doors closed when cruising is very effective at keeping dogs on board. Alternatively a semi-trad with a barrier between the "wings" will work, or a cruiser stern with a canvas or steel "dodger" going right up to the cabin.

 

That said I've been canalling for almost 50 years with dogs and only ever owned 1 dog that needed to be shut in when cruising.

[ditchcrawler]

16 hours ago, peterselby said:

I did receive an email from Collingwood saying they had shells available but they would need fully fitting out, of course they are also standard sterns maybe a smaller boat builder would have availability 

Thank you that is good advise I’m sure.

I would suggest that as you are new to boating you buy a second hand good boat as close as possible to your requirements, live with it for at least a year until you know what you really want and not what you think you want and then have one built. It will work out a lot cheaper than buying a good boat, spending thousands on it and then finding it doesn't do what you thought it would.

[jonathanA]

You mention a 1 day course, but if you haven't spent time boating then I would strongly recommend hiring. Good chance to try different boat styles and lengths and find out what you like don't like. 

We were also fortunate that good friends lent us their boat several times. 

From hiring and borrowing we were able to decide on things we wanted , didn't want or weren't bothered about. 

 

 

[gatekrash]

11 hours ago, matty40s said:

This is the Black Prince sell off site, sign up and they let you know when hosts are coming to market 

https://www.black-prince.com/boat-sales/

This is where I'd go if I was looking for an ex hire boat, Black Prince have a good reputation for altering their ex hire boats to suit buyers.

 

If you search for 'floydtilla' on the forum, @David Floyd did a blog on his build of an ex black prince boat, it may help you out 

 

I think they have a waiting list though...

 

[LadyG]

11 hours ago, MtB said:

 

From the way you write about the alterations you want, I can see you running up a bill of £50k easily, and possibly a whole lot more and actually reducing the resale value of the boat in doing so. 

 

Another aspect is timescale. Buy a boat now that seems closest to what you want and start boating tomorrow. If you build a new one or alter an existing, it will be a year at least before you get out on the water. Possibly several. 

 

 

When I went to see Steve Ellis, has was fitting out a boat, a beautiful job, I think I was pretty much dismissed out of hand as he had a two year waiting list, and not interested in a small job (new galley), but things change, so worth a call. Craftsmanship will never come cheap.

Edited December 1, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

21 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 Have a look at this guy, maybe with a quick chat.

 

https://www.sellisboatfitters.co.uk/
 

  May be able to do a new build on your budget with an economy shell and he is near the link I gave you previously, so you could pop in.

Having seen the standard of his fit out, I'd doubt OP would get a boat on budget, inflation for the next two years takes the cost to nearer £140K.

Buying an economy shell is a weird start, any new boat should be well built, then treated with anti rust treatments, adding several thousands.

Waiting  two years, to me (I''m now running out of years) indicates a lack of urgency that borders on tyre kicking, I can only agree with CRT that "it's better by water". 

The way things are going, best to buy  "Carpe Deum". At this time, things are very uncertain, you will find it easier to re-sell a boat which you paid £45-60K for than the one you paid £120-140K.

I am in the North, and wanted a well designed 52ft Trad, but a standard 57ft was available, and after three years on board, I have adapted to the boat, every boat  is a compromise to some extent, same with houses, cars, vans etc 

Edited December 2, 2022 by LadyG