Changing engine

[John Griffiths]

Thinking of changing my engine to a air cooled lister from a water cooled one. I know this is a daft question but any ideas on heating my water up from this new engine.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, steamy1 said:

Thinking of changing my engine to a air cooled lister from a water cooled one. I know this is a daft question but any ideas on heating my water up from this new engine.

 

No, I don't think a copper coil wrapped tight around the exhaust would transfer enough heat fast enough to be useful and even if it were it would need a circulating pump at the very least. That is why instant gas water heaters are so popular on boats with those engines.

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

Thinking of changing my engine to a air cooled lister from a water cooled one. I know this is a daft question but any ideas on heating my water up from this new engine.

I once saw one with an oil cooler fitted. Other than that an Eberspaecher or Webasto 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I once saw one with an oil cooler fitted. Other than that an Eberspaecher or Webasto 

 

That might work but it will still need a pump and I suspect canal speed and load would not produce enough heat.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I once saw one with an oil cooler fitted. Other than that an Eberspaecher or Webasto 

Some oil to water heat exchangers from the racing car world. You would also need a circulating pump for the coolant between the heat exchanger and cauliflower. Not seen this tried on an air cooled Lister, or any idea how many kW of heat could be sent to the calorifier this way.

There would also need to be a thermostat to divert oil to the exchanger, or bypass it. If not, the oil would never reach its proper temperature and the engine would be over cooled.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

Thinking of changing my engine to a air cooled lister from a water cooled one. I know this is a daft question but any ideas on heating my water up from this new engine.

 

I suppose the question must be - WHY ?

So much more noise - MUCH louder.

 

Any way - there is no way to effectively heat water using an air cooled engine.

You have a choice of :

1) Electic immersion heater - not really practical

2) Diesel heater (Eberspacher / Webasto etc)

3) Gas heater (Alde etc) Expensive to run

4) Solid fuel fire with back boiler (not much fun stoking up the fire in the middle of Summer)

5) Cold water.

[Eeyore]

35 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

Thinking of changing my engine to a air cooled lister from a water cooled one. I know this is a daft question but any ideas on heating my water up from this new engine.

Extracting heat from the exhaust would be a way forward. An off the shelf solution like the Bowman unit, or a water cooled manifold from a different engine using suitable adaptors to line up with the exhaust ports of your engine. Both will require a pump. https://ej-bowman.com/products/exhaust-gas-heat-exchanger/

[Tracy D'arth]

You must have a good reason for this change, but there are too many disadvantages to make it a sensible option. Could we be privy to that reason?

The big advantage would be the absence of water to freeze in winter.

[John Griffiths]

Thankyou all.   I think I'll get a Lister water cooled engine.  Many thanks again.     John  

[cuthound]

42 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

Thankyou all.   I think I'll get a Lister water cooled engine.  Many thanks again.     John  

 

Always simplest and cheapest to swap engines like for like 

 

Otherwise you need to change engine beds to suit new mounts, reroute exhaust systems and in the case of going to air cooled, cut holes to admit cooling air.

Edited March 16, 2022 by cuthound
Clarification

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, steamy1 said:

Thankyou all.   I think I'll get a Lister water cooled engine.  Many thanks again.     John  

 

 

Is your existing water cooled engine a Lister - which model ?

[John Griffiths]

Dear Alan,  I've gone and bought a 50 ft narrowboat with a Barrus Shire 40 engine (400 hours).  Always had vintage engines during my 35 years on the cut and miss the relaxing throb,  Downsized to a 50 ft because of my age. Can you suggest, say a 20 hp slow revving, water cooled engine. Kind Regards,   John    

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

I've gone and bought a 50 ft narrowboat with a Barrus Shire 40 engine (400 hours).  Always had vintage engines during my 35 years on the cut and miss the relaxing throb,  Downsized to a 50 ft because of my age. Can you suggest, say a 20 hp slow revving, water cooled engine.

 

Just be aware it's now illegal to put an old engine in a boat that comes under the RCD/RCR rules, so pretty much anything newer than 1997 launch date.

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, steamy1 said:

Dear Alan,  I've gone and bought a 50 ft narrowboat with a Barrus Shire 40 engine (400 hours).  Always had vintage engines during my 35 years on the cut and miss the relaxing throb,  Downsized to a 50 ft because of my age. Can you suggest, say a 20 hp slow revving, water cooled engine. Kind Regards,   John    

 

 

You may not care but under the RCD / RCR regulations you cannot just 'change engines', and you certainly cannot put an 'old air-cooled', or 'water cooled' one in a modern boat.

Engines need to be emission approved and CE marked.

If the engine is approved, but is more than 10% difference in HP then you cannot use it, without new stability / performance calculations.

 

There is loads more, I'll let you read up on it at your leisure.

 

You may not be concerned there are some as aren't, but at least you are aware of the legal situation.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[zenataomm]

HRW2

[John Griffiths]

Many thanks all. I think that scuppers it.   Regards,   John.

[OldGoat]

Late to this party - but do RCD and RCR directives apply to older boats / those which were never subject ro RCD in the first place??

Edited March 17, 2022 by OldGoat

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Late to this party - but do RCD and RCR directives apply to older boats / those which were never subject ro RCD in the first place??

 

No.

 

But an older boat was in commission before 1997 as a ready reckoner.

 

There are some exceptions but you'd have to carefully check the details before buying anything newer.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Mp3 recording of the ancient thump thump engine of choice on your 'phone. Bluetooth speaker by the steering position. Play on loop.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, steamy1 said:

Many thanks all. I think that scuppers it.   Regards,   John.

 

why not just buy a pre-1997 boat and put a chuffy engine in it, if you're worried about the pen pushing box tickers catching up with you ad throwing you in prison? 

[jonathanA]

Sorry I don't understand the logic of buying a boat with a virtually new modern engine and then wanting to put a dumper truck engine in... think the op bought the wrong boat...

 

Agree with jen sound proof it and get some recordings of a farty pop pop 

Edited March 17, 2022 by jonathanA

[TheBiscuits]

48 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

why not just buy a pre-1997 boat and put a chuffy engine in it

 

It's a fair point.  Maybe the HNBC should reconsider their 1965(?) cutoff date.

 

It's always seemed daft to me that you can have a boat on the Historic Ships Register that doesn't qualify as a historic narrow boat.

[OldGoat]

Hmm -

a well designed (= Beta) modern engine with freshwater cooling system makes almost an acceptable  substitute for a 'proper' engine and has the additional advantage that it's easier to generate the shed loads of electrical that 'modern boating'  needs.