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Is youtube ruining the canals?


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5 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 

  The next one to leave the Canals will be Minimalist I imagine.

  

 

Well they have hinted at it and they are currently posting videos about refurbishing their boat which they have openly said would be either to prepare for sale OR to make it better to continue to live on so it would hardly be a surprise if they actually did, especially given how much of the system they have done.

 

I have no idea about the whys and wherefores of what the Foxes did or didn't do or what changed because as I said I stopped watching after their first video off the canals as watching videos about hire boating (which is the one I saw) doesn't really interest me.

 

Sometimes people's lives take a direction that is not always planned and if that is what has happened good luck to them.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Looking at the hire costs for 10-12 berth boats in high summer, it seems to be around £2000 per week.

 

Assuming most young  people are earning around the minimum wage the £200 represents about 50% of their weekly income.

 

Back in 1973 I was earning just under £20 per week gross, and the holiday cost me £4, or 20% of my weekly income.

 

Most hire companies now only use relatively new boats, so depreciation is high and then the boats are stuffed full of luxury goods all of which add to the high depreciation.

 

The camping boats were already about 35 years old when I hired them.

 

Indeed, most of the old camping boats were just old working boats with the canvas cover on, no real facilities, bring your own sleeping bag etc. With modern hire boats you get so much more, so I guess you have to pay for that. 

 

Still a cheap holiday though. 
 

Edited by booke23
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17 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Norty, you know what I meant... 🤣

 

Yes - I do, In '73 I was an Assistant Venture Scout Leader and we had one or two lasses that were lusted over.

 

One of us had to stay and 'work nights' when we were away camping - its amazing how many of the lads needed to get up and when spotted were "just going for a pee"

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58 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Well they have hinted at it and they are currently posting videos about refurbishing their boat which they have openly said would be either to prepare for sale OR to make it better to continue to live on so it would hardly be a surprise if they actually did, especially given how much of the system they have done.

 

Sometimes people's lives take a direction that is not always planned and if that is what has happened good luck to them.

 

 

I believe Michael is studying a new computer software system, so once completed will make the decision I imagine.

  The brains behind the Foxes Colin, has always been into media and metal health issues so hopefully he’ll do something involving that now and be able to enjoy life. The other one eh what’s his name?? doesn’t bring much to the table IMO and will just carry on being a sidekick. 
  Hope they can enjoy their “Good Life” small holding in Scotland, looks a lovely scenic spot.

Edited by PD1964
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2 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

What , pray, is a jackery unit?

Having owned a camping car for over ten years without hearing the phrase, should I care?

I'm not sure but you obviously should have several

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4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

You said:

 

"If youtube is attracting people to buy boats isn't that a good thing?"

 

 

 

Yes but I didn't say they were attracted to buy  ''new'' boats and I wrote nothing about wide beams.

New people coming into boating does not necessarily increase numbers of boats .

 

 

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8 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

I blame the you tube channels for pushing the boat prices and demand up.

I have only ever watched a few youtube videos of the type you describe any can't say I like anything  I have seen. 

 

I think other factors like Brexit and Covid have resulted in boat price increases. Not really sure Youtube is an influence as it has been around for years with no such impact.

 

If folks return to holidays abroad the demand for and value of boats may stabilise. But who knows really.

 

I think the result of Brexit will be fewer UK citizens buying property in the EU . Instead they may buy property /boats/ motorhomes etc . for use in the UK. So UK leisure activities of all types may well see longer term popularity at a level higher than pre Brexit times. 

New boats are increasingly expensive due to increased raw material costs and that looks like a factor that is not going away anytime soon. 

 

Used boats have increased in value in part due to new boats being priced higher .

 

Just my observations and thoughts .

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

That's bad for a host of different reasons.  You'll pick up:

 

1.  Mad people who just hate everything.

2. Stupid people who can't work out how to use the product.

3.  People with a grudge against the company.

Yes but those are easy enough to filter out.  The problem is that with the online retailers obsessed about their rating score, not only do you get the fake reviews, but customers are chased for feedback a few days after the purchase, so you get 5 star ratings with comments like "fast delivery, well packaged, looks good, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet". How does that help me to decide whether the item meets my needs?

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

customers are chased for feedback a few days after the purchase

So true, but so easy to ignore that I wonder why anyone responds if they have nothing to say. I suppose you could leave a review along the lines of "this retailer will bug you for a review before you have a chance to try it".

 

Websites with pop-ups asking you for similar about their site before you get a chance to look at it are in the same vein.

 

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11 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I think you underestimate the engagement people have with their favourite youtubers.  IMO it's nothing like other forms of lightweight promotional content.  Many of the viewers think of the creators as their friends and are totally hooked on the lifestyle they're being sold.

I have favourite YouTubers (on subjects other than canals). I have zero belief that they are my friends and skip through their ads but find their content entertaining and/or informative. I'm sure there are people who are a lot more obsessive than me, but TV presenters have weird fanbases and magazines have collectors too. And I fundamentally don't agree that people hooked on the idea of a canal lifestyle "ruin" the canals, or that new boaters who had a hire boat holiday once or bought a boat out of sheer desperation are necessarily better informed. At least YouTubers sometimes talk about toilets and engine maintenance!

 

 

9 hours ago, MtB said:

I don't buy this. Do you really, genuinely think the canals need even more boats and the steady decline we a seeing is caused by there being too few? 

 

I think the five or ten new monster widebeams I suspect are being launched each week are as much a cause of the problem than the solution, given their licence fee is disproportionately low for the space they take up. Or at best, extra boats will have a neutral effect. I dunno how many new narrowboats are being built per week but very few would be my guess.

 

But broadly I don't think boat numbers are the problem. I think if CRT ever balanced the books (or heaven forbid returned a surplus), the guvvermint would simply cut the support they give until they are back in deficit, so the decline of the system is actually caused by government policy, not a shortage of boats. 

Yes, for many parts of the network I really genuinely think more boats (and more public interest) would reduce the decline. I agree with your point that the government can cut funding as numbers go up, but any bean counter and looking into the future of, say, the Rochdale is going to see rising numbers and younger generations and towpath walkers who are avid Foxes fans as making it a lot easier to justify keeping it open and beg for more lottery cash than numbers dwindling further below a boat a day and the public perception it's a niche hobby for pensioners that gets in the way of the fishing. 

Vloggers are, after all, mostly promoting actually exploring the network rather than having a floating flat in an expensive area of the counrty.

 

Agree that monster widebeams on congested waterways around London aren't necessarily helping, but I think Collingwood salespeople, magazine articles and house prices probably deserve more of the blame for that than YouTubers vlogging about their cute 45ft narrowboat's adventures.

Edited by enigmatic
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3 hours ago, Idle Days said:

I'm not sure but you obviously should have several

I think one jackery unit will meet all requirements, two are decadent. 

Edited by LadyG
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12 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I have favourite YouTubers (on subjects other than canals). I have zero belief that they are my friends and skip through their ads but find their content entertaining and/or informative. Nobody has suggested that every viewer is obsessed.  I'm sure there are people who are a lot more obsessive than me, but TV presenters have weird fanbases and magazines have collectors too. And I fundamentally don't agree that people hooked on the idea of a canal lifestyle "ruin" the canals I don't either, where did you get that from?  I started this thread to raise a discussion around issued cause by youtube and the way content is monetised on there, causing a slew of information which skews reality.  Don't worry, about 80% of responders seemed totally miss that too., or that new boaters who had a hire boat holiday once or bought a boat out of sheer desperation are necessarily better informed. At least YouTubers sometimes talk about toilets and engine maintenance!

 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, David Mack said:

Yes but those are easy enough to filter out.  The problem is that with the online retailers obsessed about their rating score, not only do you get the fake reviews, but customers are chased for feedback a few days after the purchase, so you get 5 star ratings with comments like "fast delivery, well packaged, looks good, but I haven't had a chance to use it yet". How does that help me to decide whether the item meets my needs?

The answer is to look for reviews on trusted websites, not the retailler's site.  For example, if I were looking for a new hifi, I'd look on What Hifi or Which.

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I think it's much easier, safer and cheaper to watch others taking risk and spending money from the comfort of the sofa. People can live out dreams in their imagination. Some may even buy a boat, knowing that if they really wanted to, they could brave the weather, meet strangers and take other risks.

 

YouTube has probably helped increase public awareness of the canals. That is probably a good thing seeing as C&RT rely heavely on income from the public. Has it made the canals busier? I'm not so sure in my experience. 

 

If we had had this debate over 30 years ago, it would probably have been in a canalside pub. There are some left apparently.

Edited by Rambling Boater
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25 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

 

YouTube has probably helped increase public awareness of the canals. That is probably a good thing seeing as C&RT rely heavely on income from the public. Has it made the canals busier? I'm not so sure in my experience. 

  Most of the canal users that may of been made aware of the Canals by watching YouTube or encouraged by CaRT to use contribute little if anything to the Canal system. As they are mainly walkers and Cyclists in my area. Who don’t pay anything to use them, but the cyclists with their off road bikes are cause ruts and holes, turning some Towpaths into muddy quagmire’s, causing the large parties of walkers to complain about them, making CaRT repair them costing money. Meanwhile there is no maintenance being done to locks or the waterway which boaters are paying to use.

 

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....Good example of user pays nothing is the constant stream of idiots who require helicopter rescue off some windswept peak........yet if I call an Ambulance outside their designated area,I get a hefty bill for transport....................or ,closer to home ,the boaties who cause 3 day air sea searches because they set off with a force nine gale forecast.............of course they generally turn up drowned ..so there is no billing them.

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20 minutes ago, john.k said:

....Good example of user pays nothing is the constant stream of idiots who require helicopter rescue off some windswept peak........yet if I call an Ambulance outside their designated area,I get a hefty bill for transport....................or ,closer to home ,the boaties who cause 3 day air sea searches because they set off with a force nine gale forecast.............of course they generally turn up drowned ..so there is no billing them.

I would say everything you say above has no relevance to people using the canals/towpath and the damage that non-paying users are causing and costs involved repairing it. So meaningless in the context of my post really.

 People contribute to RNLI and Air Rescue through collection boxes and donations as they realise what a valuable job they do, even though most will never need them. Canal walkers and Cyclists on the whole contribute little to nothing to costs.

Edited by PD1964
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51 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Canal walkers and Cyclists on the whole contribute little to nothing to costs.

 

I used to think this way. But, they're tax payers, and the average tax payer is (probably) more willing to pay for things that they use or see a direct benefit (e.g., lifeboats are pretty obvious). I don't know the costs of cyclists to the canals, so can't say definitively that the tax payer puts in more than they take out. But I would guess that the taxpayer does.

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1 hour ago, Thomas C King said:

 

I used to think this way. But, they're tax payers, and the average tax payer is (probably) more willing to pay for things that they use or see a direct benefit (e.g., lifeboats are pretty obvious). I don't know the costs of cyclists to the canals, so can't say definitively that the tax payer puts in more than they take out. But I would guess that the taxpayer does.

 

It's not just what the average tax payer wants because they don't decide how our taxes are spent, the government is much less likely to subsidise the canals for the benefit of 30000 boaters than >10x that number of cyclists and walkers -- which is exactly what was said in the CART "Address to Boaters" recently...

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1 hour ago, Thomas C King said:

 

I used to think this way. But, they're tax payers, and the average tax payer is (probably) more willing to pay for things that they use or see a direct benefit (e.g., lifeboats are pretty obvious). 

Point of order their is no or very little tax money that goes towards lifeboats. The RNLI is a charity and provides its own lifeboats. I hate to think what it would be like if it was government run.

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1 minute ago, Loddon said:

Point of order their is no or very little tax money that goes towards lifeboats. The RNLI is a charity and provides its own lifeboats. I hate to think what it would be like if it was government run.

 

You would need to submit a ten page long application to be rescued.

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4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Point of order their is no or very little tax money that goes towards lifeboats. The RNLI is a charity and provides its own lifeboats. I hate to think what it would be like if it was government run.

 

True, I didn't phrase that very well. I meant people in general are more willing to contribute, not specifically via tax.

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5 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

 

I used to think this way. But, they're tax payers, and the average tax payer is (probably) more willing to pay for things that they use or see a direct benefit (e.g., lifeboats are pretty obvious). I don't know the costs of cyclists to the canals, so can't say definitively that the tax payer puts in more than they take out. But I would guess that the taxpayer does.

I thought the Lifeboats were a charity, I mean a real charity 🙂

They certainly used to have volunteers collecting cash. I should think lots of salty water sailors contribute a few quid. 

Edited by LadyG
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8 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

I don't either, where did you get that from?  I started this thread to raise a discussion around issued cause by youtube and the way content is monetised on there, causing a slew of information which skews reality.

We are all responding to a thread entitled "is YouTube ruining the canals". Perhaps that was you picking an ironic YouTube-style clickbait title rather than making a serious point, but ask a silly question, get a silly answer...

 

I'll maintain YouTube monetisation really isn't a big deal for something like canals though. Even the A-listers are getting less than 1p per view for a little over 10k views per video, from advertisers picked by Google's algorithm which are usually nothing to do with canals (I get software and music ads), so they're making £100 from a video that takes a few hours to put together. At that stage, if they're painting rosy pictures it's because they like the idea of random strangers admiring their life, not for cold hard cash, and if all they want is attention they might even get more clicks from a video called "Canal Life is Crap", "The Smelly Truth About Living On Boats" or "Canal Maintenance Hell"

 

Now compare with the commercial pressures on a waterways magazine that has to feed a few staff from a small number of advertisers who depend on interest in canals for their business (and are likely to take articles criticising the boats they build or canals their services are based on very personally!)

 

The commercially-driven YouTubers are selling stuff people pay them to advertise or people click on links below their video to buy, not stitching together footage of their boat and talking about how sunny it is. Probably the only narrowboat videos making serious money are the ones the Foxes and Robbie Cumming got TV companies to pay them for.

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