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Purchase query


Hudds Lad
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Right, lets say i’m off to look at a boat at the weekend, lets say it’s a private sale, and lets say it’s on an EOG mooring on the Thames.

Now lets say i like it, and i agree a price to buy. What then?

 

I'm guessing being on the river it would be nigh impossible to get it surveyed like you would buying through brokerage at a marina, so what are options there other than go without and pray?

 

Also, seem to recall some RYA sales agreement type form, is that all you need to sort out in the way of receipt?

 

Personally i’d probably be happy to shake hands pay the money and sail into the sunset, but the wife (who has told me to ask these questions) is much more risk averse and so wants some reassurances.

 

I now await help and ridicule in equal measure :) 

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13 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

Right, lets say i’m off to look at a boat at the weekend, lets say it’s a private sale, and lets say it’s on an EOG mooring on the Thames.

Now lets say i like it, and i agree a price to buy. What then?

 

I'm guessing being on the river it would be nigh impossible to get it surveyed like you would buying through brokerage at a marina, so what are options there other than go without and pray?

 

Also, seem to recall some RYA sales agreement type form, is that all you need to sort out in the way of receipt?

 

Personally i’d probably be happy to shake hands pay the money and sail into the sunset, but the wife (who has told me to ask these questions) is much more risk averse and so wants some reassurances.

 

I now await help and ridicule in equal measure :) 

 

roughly where on the Thames because you may well be  able to arrange a slip or lift for a survey.  I am sure Better Boating below Caversham lock can lift and possibly slip narrow boats. Ditto Oxford cruisers above Oxford. Then there is a yard below Stains that work on narrow boats and barges. I am sure there are others.

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Be aware that an offer subject to survey is less attractive to the vendor, who will have to spend a day or two getting the boat to the survey location, knowing that after the survey you might want to drop the price. If someone else makes a reasonable offer, even a lower offer, without a survey you could easily lose out.

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Also be aware that in the last year or two, boats are being bought 'unseen', such is demand that you don't have time to go and view let alone take up days arranging a survey.

 

Get the cash (proper cash notes) , and get to see the boat within an hour of it becoming available, pay the man and take the risk, or just accept that you'll be unlikely to get a boat in the next few years.

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8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Be aware that an offer subject to survey is less attractive to the vendor, who will have to spend a day or two getting the boat to the survey location, knowing that after the survey you might want to drop the price. If someone else makes a reasonable offer, even a lower offer, without a survey you could easily lose out.

This is why i’m willing to buy without, but the Mrs is a worrier

 

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Also be aware that in the last year or two, boats are being bought 'unseen', such is demand that you don't have time to go and view let alone take up days arranging a survey.

 

Get the cash (proper cash notes) , and get to see the boat within an hour of it becoming available, pay the man and take the risk, or just accept that you'll be unlikely to get a boat in the next few years.

There’s no way i’m acquiring and walking round with that much folding, surely that would take days to draw out with modern limits.

It’ll be a phone call to the bank and transferred that way

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So.... this theoretical boat, chances are that  if its say, up to 10 years old, its probably OK below the water. Maybe 10 -15 years old, showing some pitting and problems starting to build. Older than that, I would start to get nervous and increasingly nervous up till maybe 30 years old and then I would expect  some overplating and probably more needed soon. That is by absolutely no means reliable but its what I would expect. This means that you could reasonably pay for an in water survey and assume the below water condition from the above.  If you do this please don't sue me if your 8 year old boat has no paint below the water and awful pitting. On the other hand if I am about right a nice red wine would be appreciated.

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1 minute ago, roland elsdon said:

I bought a 1977 boat without survey in 1980, a 1937 boat in 1984, without survey, and a 1936 boat in 2011 with a good survey.

 

Guess which one had to have a new baseplate after 5 years.

 

Crumbs, not the 1977 boat? that's awful, my Austin Allegro lasted longer than that (just)

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IMHO I'm not a fan of surveys.  If you've ever read the 'small print' on a survey I'm not sure they're worth the paper they are written on.  The last one I read had so many 'get out of jail' clauses there was all but zero comeback on the surveyor...  IIRC there was one clause that made us laugh out loud it was so ludicrously wide.  It was something like 'if the surveyor misses anything then tough luck'.... didn't inspire any confidence anyway....

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13 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

IMHO I'm not a fan of surveys.  If you've ever read the 'small print' on a survey I'm not sure they're worth the paper they are written on.  The last one I read had so many 'get out of jail' clauses there was all but zero comeback on the surveyor...  IIRC there was one clause that made us laugh out loud it was so ludicrously wide.  It was something like 'if the surveyor misses anything then tough luck'.... didn't inspire any confidence anyway....

Agreed. I think mainly surveys are for people borrowing money, finance company has you over a barrel so you have to pay. I didnt survey any of my 8 boats, all turned out solid as a rock wnenever they were slipped, all of various ages. The suprising one was twenty years old and the bloke I bought it off told me it had never been blacked in his ownership of 18 years so we both thought it would need plating, so I gave him a low price and we were both happy. I had it checked and hull survey AFTER the purchase lol. It was 6/6/3 and the worst bit of the hull was 5.7 

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6 minutes ago, Onewheeler said:

What sort of boat? If a narrowboat or widebeam of any size your options are limited. If a smallish cruiser there are plenty of places that could crane or pull it out.

 

 

I'd say it doesn't matter that much. Thames and Kennet Marina at Reading have a 50 tonne cradle crane that will lift pretty much anything that could be described as a canal boat. 

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21 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

I bought a 1977 boat without survey in 1980, a 1937 boat in 1984, without survey, and a 1936 boat in 2011 with a good survey.

 

Guess which one had to have a new baseplate after 5 years.

 

 

The one with the good survey, I'd guess.

 

I bought Reginald with no survey. Had it docked and surveyed by a well known historic boat surveyor who gave it the A1 thumbs up. A short while later a scab falls off the bottom, boat tries to sink and Simon has to cut the bottom off and construct a new baseplate and footings. Fortunately business was good that year! 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My boat was, and is by a good builder, I inspected it out of water, the owner was asked to give it a new coat of 2 pack it, but was unable to do so, therefore when I got it out it was 20 years since first two pack, it was in super condition when it came out in July, I put three coats of jotamastic 90 on, and it absolutely flies along due to best preparation possible, about £1500 if I count my labour as £300.

I did not pay much attention to gas etc as it had a Certificate, not impressed when it was examined thoroughly. Not the end of the world, I passed the next BSS to MY satisfaction, £160 for cert, £100 for remedial work. 

I live aboard, so important it was not going to have serious structural problems. 

I did not expect it to be perfect, nothing in life is perfect. 

I'd be very wary taking on anything that had appearance of neglect, it's a lot of work, can cost a lot of cash. Personally, my priority was  a well built boat in good condition, which is what I got. 

If you know nothing much about boats and don't have required skills, keep looking, you can always come back to it. 

 

Edited by LadyG
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On 10/11/2021 at 19:31, Hudds Lad said:

This is why i’m willing to buy without, but the Mrs is a worrier

 

There’s no way i’m acquiring and walking round with that much folding, surely that would take days to draw out with modern limits.

It’ll be a phone call to the bank and transferred that way

Totaly agree, these archaic practices should be consigned to the litter bin. I find that if someone is desperate to sell, it's kinda off-putting. If they don't have a bank account maybe they don't have a boat. 

Banks don't use cash transactions these days, even bank transfers can be difficult, the money laundering laws are strictly enforced. 

Use the RYA Bill of Sale, easy peasy. Use his Driving Licence or his EA licence to check his address. Its your money, you set the contract. 

I paid a deposit. I wrote out an invoice and vendor had to sign it, it stated this was a deposit, the balance was xxxx and due on yyyy, and that the vendor had to take boat off the matket. He was a bit taken aback, but I'm not handing over my money without paperwork clearly explaining the transaction. If he refuses, go find another boat. 

Ask to see vendor's evidence of purchase AND some regular paperwork. Worst case scenario, it's not his boat to sell. 

Edited by LadyG
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2 hours ago, LadyG said:

My boat was, and is by a good builder, I inspected it out of water, the owner was asked to give it a new coat of 2 pack it, but was unable to do so, therefore when I got it out it was 20 years since first two pack, it was in super condition when it came out in July, I put three coats of jotamastic 90 on, and it absolutely flies along due to best preparation possible, about £1500 if I count my labour as £300.

I did not pay much attention to gas etc as it had a Certificate, not impressed when it was examined thoroughly. Not the end of the world, I passed the next BSS to MY satisfaction, £160 for cert, £100 for remedial work. 

I live aboard, so important it was not going to have serious structural problems. 

I did not expect it to be perfect, nothing in life is perfect. 

I'd be very wary taking on anything that had appearance of neglect, it's a lot of work, can cost a lot of cash. Personally, my priority was  a well built boat in good condition, which is what I got. 

If you know nothing much about boats and don't have required skills, keep looking, you can always come back to it. 

 

When you inspected the boat, did you take any photos of the hull, at the time?

 

Bod

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33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

So you know what your rudder looks like ?

 

I think that implication is hardly fair. I am sure lady G knew it had a rudder and probably that the blade was firmly in place but for a prospective purchaser to note any ore than that is, I feel, over the top. Are you sure that you could spot a rudder stock that had been welded and ground off flushish? Coming from the yachting world is t fair to expect her to know all the variations of rudder implementation, top bearing, and how the tiller and stock may be connected, apart from its all there and works?

 

Not everyone is as technically aware and experienced as you are.

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22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I think that implication is hardly fair. I am sure lady G knew it had a rudder and probably that the blade was firmly in place but for a prospective purchaser to note any ore than that is, I feel, over the top. Are you sure that you could spot a rudder stock that had been welded and ground off flushish? Coming from the yachting world is t fair to expect her to know all the variations of rudder implementation, top bearing, and how the tiller and stock may be connected, apart from its all there and works?

 

Not everyone is as technically aware and experienced as you are.

 

That is a fair point, but not the reason I asked.

I was not suggesting she 'needed to know' how it was assembled but simply there have been  questions about the shape of the rudder, how it is fitted (square taper, nut etc etc) modifications to the standard etc which photos would answer.

It apparently does not have 'the hole' which is totally non-standard and may suggest that the unit has been replaced, which is more than the work done as was told to Jo when she purchased it.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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