Inverter/charger & Fridge Questions

[Dozee]

I have found a new Mooring for the new year will be in a marina on shore power, just about to get the solar panels fitted, looks like I'm needing a new inverter/charger and neew fridge, going 240v for fridge freezer, the best inverter I can afford is the victron 12/1600 multiplus, does anyone have experience with this model, need to order this week for fitting next week when the panels are done

Thanks in advance

 

Robert

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Dozee said:

I have found a new Mooring for the new year will be in a marina on shore power, just about to get the solar panels fitted, looks like I'm needing a new inverter/charger and neew fridge, going 240v for fridge freezer, the best inverter I can afford is the victron 12/1600 multiplus, does anyone have experience with this model, need to order this week for fitting next week when the panels are done

Thanks in advance

 

Robert

I have a 1500 Watt inverter and wish I had gone a bit bigger , not for my normal loads, the biggest is the coffee machine but a bit more headroom for the occasional use of other things. If I have to change I will go for a minimum of 2000 watt.

[IanD]

Bigger is undoubtedly better (if your batteries are man enough, no point if they're not...) and price differences are relatively small, here's Victron's latest official price list (retail prices are usually lower than this). Multiplus II is cheaper at higher powers.

 

If you're going to have to pay for/install/control an MPPT controller as well, an EasySolar may be your best bet if you don't mind putting all your eggs into one Victron basket.

 

Or an EasyPlus C will mean you don't have to wire up an AC distribution panel.

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/easyplus-12v-1600va

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

Bigger is undoubtedly better (if your batteries are man enough, no point if they're not...) and price differences are relatively small, here's Victron's latest official price list (retail prices are usually lower than this). Multiplus II is cheaper at higher powers.

 

If you're going to have to pay for/install/control an MPPT controller as well, an EasySolar may be your best bet if you don't mind putting all your eggs into one Victron basket.

 

Or an EasyPlus C will mean you don't have to wire up an AC distribution panel.

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/easyplus-12v-1600va

 

 

 

Are they the same price in GBP ?

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Are they the same price in GBP ?

Obviously not -- but their latest list is only in EUR, the idea was to give some idea of price differences without having to go through pages and pages of a supplier's website... 😉

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

Obviously not -- but their latest list is only in EUR, the idea was to give some idea of price differences without having to go through pages and pages of a supplier's website... 😉

 

Their UK GBP distributor price is a little higher than the Euro price.

 

Victron | Energy Solutions | Energy Solutions (es-store.co.uk)

 

Multiplus 12/1600/70

UK £812.70

EU Euro 806

[Jen-in-Wellies]

44 minutes ago, Dozee said:

I have found a new Mooring for the new year will be in a marina on shore power, just about to get the solar panels fitted, looks like I'm needing a new inverter/charger and neew fridge, going 240v for fridge freezer, the best inverter I can afford is the victron 12/1600 multiplus, does anyone have experience with this model, need to order this week for fitting next week when the panels are done

Thanks in advance

 

Robert

Not that model, but have an old easyplus 12/1600 on my boat. Has been very good. Starts a fridge and a freezer without problems. Only used for heating water when on shore line and the inverter is in pass through mode. Generally, the blue boxes are a safe bet. It will now break later today after I've said that.

[Dozee]

If I make do with the old fridge for a bit I can possibly squeeze to the 

Victron Energy MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80-30 VE.Bus – CMP122200000

£1,128.59

[blackrose]

55 minutes ago, Dozee said:

I have found a new Mooring for the new year will be in a marina on shore power, just about to get the solar panels fitted, looks like I'm needing a new inverter/charger and neew fridge, going 240v for fridge freezer, the best inverter I can afford is the victron 12/1600 multiplus, does anyone have experience with this model, need to order this week for fitting next week when the panels are done

Thanks in advance

 

Robert

 

I don't understand the relevance of being at a new mooring on shore power? 

 

Assuming your mains supply at the mooring is sufficient for your mains consumption and battery charging needs then the solar panels & inverter will only really be of use while you're away from your mooring. 

 

All you need while you're at the mooring is a smart charger. Personally I don't like combis (combined inverter/chargers). When they go wrong nothing works.

Edited November 8, 2021 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't understand the relevance of being at a new mooring on shore power? 

 

Assuming your mains supply at the mooring is sufficient for your mains consumption and battery charging needs then the solar panels & inverter will only really be of use while you're away from your mooring.  

And only a very small charger at that if on hookup 24/7,  10amps should be enough even with a 12 volt fridge.

[Dozee]

I will spending the summer hopefully cruising with my step daughter, want to get the best I can with what I have available to spend, the comment was meant to show that I will not need the inverter to be running all the time

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Dozee said:

If I make do with the old fridge for a bit I can possibly squeeze to the 

Victron Energy MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80-30 VE.Bus – CMP122200000

£1,128.59

 

I don't know who you're planning to use as a supplier but don't forget that the supplier is responsible for any problems with the unit and providing support if needed. The cheapest suppliers often don't have the expertise (or staff) to do this, it might be better to use a Victron-approved supplier even if they're a bit more expensive. Many people on the Victron forums who've bought from the cheapest online supplier have found it impossible to get any support if things go wrong, they complain to Victron who say "contact your supplier" (because this is how it's supposed to work) who turns put to be useless, and they end up in limbo with a non-working setup...

 

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/index.html

 

[I'm not in any way associated with Victron except as a (future) customer, but I can see all the complaints from people who have fallen into the "buy-cheap" trap...]

Edited November 8, 2021 by IanD

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Their UK GBP distributor price is a little higher than the Euro price.

 

Victron | Energy Solutions | Energy Solutions (es-store.co.uk)

 

Multiplus 12/1600/70

UK £812.70

EU Euro 806

Not surprising, the price list is in EUR excluding VAT, I guess that UK price includes VAT. So the EUR price list should give a pretty good idea of the cost to a UK buyer in pounds, as the numbers you provided show.

[KenK]

I ran a narrowboat for 14 years using a 3KW PSW inverter which I purchased from a supplier in Taiwan and a separate charger without any problems.

My Dutch barge is on its second Victron combi as the charger failed on the first one, the previous owner replaced it with another Victron combi, if the charger on that fails then it will be a replacement standalone charger or if the inverter fails then an inverter and a separate charger.

You really do not need an expensive Victron or Mastervolt  combi, you can find a good 3KW PSW inverter and a separate charger for half the money, do an internet search Amazon comes up with one for less than £400.

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, Dozee said:

If I make do with the old fridge for a bit I can possibly squeeze to the 

Victron Energy MultiPlus Compact 12/2000/80-30 VE.Bus – CMP122200000

£1,128.59

I have the same and it does 95% of what ever I need it to do- if this is your Xmas pressie to yourself then treat yourself to the the Multicontrol panel for your birthday. Makes a good inverter brilliant and I find quite useful when running the washing machine when Im away as it tops up my gen (not enough power to run washer either) from the inverter and does some clever stuff managing the charger in between..

[system 4-50]

Do modern Victron inverters still have the capability to trash your batteries if the shoreline fails in pass-thru mode?

[Phoenix_V]

5 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Do modern Victron inverters still have the capability to trash your batteries if the shoreline fails in pass-thru mode?

don't they all have that feature, you can switch to charger only

 

[IanD]

47 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

don't they all have that feature, you can switch to charger only

 

Or you can program it to turn the inverter off when the battery voltage reaches a critically low level, so it doesn't kill them (but your mains goes off).

[IanD]

4 hours ago, KenK said:

I ran a narrowboat for 14 years using a 3KW PSW inverter which I purchased from a supplier in Taiwan and a separate charger without any problems.

My Dutch barge is on its second Victron combi as the charger failed on the first one, the previous owner replaced it with another Victron combi, if the charger on that fails then it will be a replacement standalone charger or if the inverter fails then an inverter and a separate charger.

You really do not need an expensive Victron or Mastervolt  combi, you can find a good 3KW PSW inverter and a separate charger for half the money, do an internet search Amazon comes up with one for less than £400.

 

As with so much in life, you can always buy cheap stuff off Ebay or Amazon so long as you realise that if it goes wrong -- not guaranteed to happen, but more likely if it's been built as cheaply as possible by a no-name company with no reputation to worry about -- you'll probably have to throw it away or try and fix it yourself, assuming you have the knowledge and can find the information/manual/schematics and components to do this, which is why most electronic repairers won't touch it with a bargepole.

 

Not saying that Victron (or Mastervolt) gear is 100% reliable because nothing is, but it's designed and built to a reasonably high standard using good-quality components, there is a decent level of support for it and a good chance of getting it repaired if it dies. All of which costs money, which is why it's not as cheap...

Edited November 8, 2021 by IanD

[GUMPY]

I have the Multi-plus 12/1600 it provides for all our needs on the boat including the compact washing machine.

It has a very low standby current, way lower than most others which is good when away from shore power.

Would I buy a larger one .......... no I wouldn't as for us there is no need as we dont use daft things like electric kettles, toasters and microwave  which need a big inverter but on shore power will work on pass-through even with a small inverter.

 

Mine came from Onboard Energy who ususlly have the best prices on Victron gear.

 

https://www.onboardenergydirect.co.uk/shop/victron-12v-inverter-chargers.html

[Dozee]

Hi all

 

The supplier is battery megastore, the biggest energy hog I will have is the fridge, which I will replace with a newer and more efficient model, I am going to try for the 12/2000, bit of belt tightening so fingers crossed, I did think about separate units but prefer all in one for simplicity and overall cost.

 

Robert

[IanD]

12 hours ago, Dozee said:

Hi all

 

The supplier is battery megastore, the biggest energy hog I will have is the fridge, which I will replace with a newer and more efficient model, I am going to try for the 12/2000, bit of belt tightening so fingers crossed, I did think about separate units but prefer all in one for simplicity and overall cost.

 

Robert

If you're planning for extra capacity, the 12/2000 is a big price hike for very little extra power -- if you need this at all. EUR prices:

 

Multiplus Compact 12/1600/70 -- EUR942

Easyplus Compact 12/1600/70 -- EUR 972, +EUR30 including 230V ac distribution so simpler install

Multiplus Compact 12/2000/80 -- EUR1177, +EUR235 for +400W (not much!)

Multiplus II 12/3000/120 -- EUR1342, +EUR400 for +1400W -- much better bet for "future-proofing" (if you need this much power, and batteries to support it)

 

So if you think the MP1600 isn't big enough (but you can run a lot of stuff off this!), an MPII-3000 (and more batteries) is a much better option than the MP2000.

 

If you're happy with 1600W and want simplicity and low cost, the Easyplus is a good choice.

[KenK]

19 hours ago, IanD said:

 

As with so much in life, you can always buy cheap stuff off Ebay or Amazon so long as you realise that if it goes wrong -- not guaranteed to happen, but more likely if it's been built as cheaply as possible by a no-name company with no reputation to worry about -- you'll probably have to throw it away or try and fix it yourself, assuming you have the knowledge and can find the information/manual/schematics and components to do this, which is why most electronic repairers won't touch it with a bargepole.

 

Not saying that Victron (or Mastervolt) gear is 100% reliable because nothing is, but it's designed and built to a reasonably high standard using good-quality components, there is a decent level of support for it and a good chance of getting it repaired if it dies. All of which costs money, which is why it's not as cheap...

Like most items intended for boating Victron and Mastervolt inverters are expensive, if you believe the price is worth it then that's your choice. I spent all my working life as an electronics engineer and used different types of inverter for different tasks. They are mostly built in the far east, including I believe, those sold by Victron and Mastervolt the technology to build them is the same irrespective of the name on the case. Yes, Victron and Mastervolt have clever software which gives them options not available on cheaper units but are those options really necessary on a narrowboat. In my opinion a simple cheaper unit and a separate charger make the most sense, especially as the expensive Victron combi failed after four years.

[doratheexplorer]

58 minutes ago, KenK said:

Like most items intended for boating Victron and Mastervolt inverters are expensive, if you believe the price is worth it then that's your choice. I spent all my working life as an electronics engineer and used different types of inverter for different tasks. They are mostly built in the far east, including I believe, those sold by Victron and Mastervolt the technology to build them is the same irrespective of the name on the case. Yes, Victron and Mastervolt have clever software which gives them options not available on cheaper units but are those options really necessary on a narrowboat. In my opinion a simple cheaper unit and a separate charger make the most sense, especially as the expensive Victron combi failed after four years.

Couldn't disagree more.  I used to have a cheap inverter.  It was rubbish.  The wiring inside was potentially dangerous.  It buzzed loudly all the time.  Ruined my electric toothbrush.  It would not provide the stated maximum watts (nowhere near). And worst of all, it drew nearly 2 amps on standby.

 

Now I have a Mastervolt and it's like comparing a Bugatti to a horse and cart.  Totally different thing.  The sine wave coming off it is cleaner than mains power.  The standby current is so low it's irrelevant.  It's silent. 

 

By all means buy a cheap one, but don't delude yourself it's the same as an expensive one.

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, KenK said:

Like most items intended for boating Victron and Mastervolt inverters are expensive, if you believe the price is worth it then that's your choice. I spent all my working life as an electronics engineer and used different types of inverter for different tasks. They are mostly built in the far east, including I believe, those sold by Victron and Mastervolt the technology to build them is the same irrespective of the name on the case. Yes, Victron and Mastervolt have clever software which gives them options not available on cheaper units but are those options really necessary on a narrowboat. In my opinion a simple cheaper unit and a separate charger make the most sense, especially as the expensive Victron combi failed after four years.

Of course they're all built in the Far East, as is expensive reliable telecoms switching gear and cheap nasty consumer gear, including some truly horrible tat -- because suppliers get what they pay for, and good quality costs more. You and I are both engineers who at least have got some chance of separating the wheat from the chaff (or even fixing it if it dies), the OP almost certainly hasn't.

 

If he buys cheap no-name unsupported Chinese gear he might be lucky, and if he buys more expensive supported Victon gear he might be unlucky -- but the chances of him having a less painful experience are smaller with Victron or Mastervolt.

 

In the end it's his choice, expensive and supported/fixable or cheap and probably unsupported/unfixable. If he follows your suggestion and the cheap gear does die, will you fix it for him? 😉

Edited November 9, 2021 by IanD