Swapping from red diesel to HVO fuel

[Momac]

45 minutes ago, gary955 said:

Can we have a mod steer this thread back to HVO? One of the most frustrating features of this forum is topic wander. Only about half of the replies to a thread about HVO are actually about HVO. It's a very busy forum if your interest is wandering off the subject, start a new thread! you'll still have plenty of input.

All you have to do is  steer it back yourself.

 

Is diesel creeping down in price a little ? I have no idea what the price of HVO is at the moment.

[ditchcrawler]

37 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

I used to design 400 volt DC systems. To ensure they complied with the safety regulstions, you put contactors into the battery interconnects to seperate the battery into 50 volt sections. These were interlocked into the battery room door, so that you couldn't gain entry without breaking the battery into low voltage sections.

 

I'm sure it would be much easier to achieve with a 72 volt battery in a box.

We use to have a nominal 110 volts  DC actually about 130 volts DC, a long row of 2 volt cells for emergency lighting that had to last for 24 hours offshore.

1 minute ago, MartynG said:

All you have to do is  steer it back yourself.

 

Is diesel creeping down in price a little ? I have no idea what the price of HVO is at the moment.

Heating oil dropped 8p/lt this week, I filled my tank last week

[Up-Side-Down]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

I think it just might be, but luckily I have access to a workshop with facilities for drilling holes in thick steel, and welding it 😀.

I reckon about 6kW-hour of Lithiums at 48 volts would be really good and mean that we could go several days without running the engine, including running the washing machine a couple of times. It will be £6000-£7000 which is a bit scary. The bit I have not worked out is how to do hot water for a shower. Currently we need to run the engine at least every third day.

https://www.solariskit.com

 

Will be trialling these over the next few months under the auspices of the IWA Sustainable Boating Group and will report back.

 

For many of us with a diesel or solid fuel stove with a back boiler there is a summer "hungry gap" when it's too warm to light the stove but one still needs hot water. Hopefully this is when the sun is shining to these fill that gap with the aid of a couple of these. I intend to plumb a pair into the engine coil in the clarifier c/w a couple of two way valves and a simple differential controller. We shall see ..........

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

https://www.solariskit.com

 

Will be trialling these over the next few months under the auspices of the IWA Sustainable Boating Group and will report back.

 

For many of us with a diesel or solid fuel stove with a back boiler there is a summer "hungry gap" when it's too warm to light the stove but one still needs hot water. Hopefully this is when the sun is shining to these fill that gap with the aid of a couple of these. I intend to plumb a pair into the engine coil in the clarifier c/w a couple of two way valves and a simple differential controller. We shall see ..........

 

 

The obvious FAQ (to me at least) is missing from the FAQ page. How does it deal with Legionella?

 

Could you suggest they address this if you have an inside track to intelligent life at Solariskit, perhaps? It will keep on cropping up! 

 

 

 

[Up-Side-Down]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

The obvious FAQ (to me at least) is missing from the FAQ page. How does it deal with Legionella?

 

Could you suggest they address this if you have an inside track to intelligent life at Solariskit, perhaps? It will keep on cropping up! 

 

 

 

As I can't get a sensible response to my queries I'm going to shoot up there as soon as I get a minute and that is a question near the top of my list. However, given that it's closed circuit the doesn't come into contact with the water that we use, how much of an issue is it likely to be? There isn't a great deal of difference between it and a domestic solar thermal set up.

 

Whilst it's a pretty funky website, it's rather short on data and performance figures (even taking account of all the inevitable variables).

[dmr]

12 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

https://www.solariskit.com

 

Will be trialling these over the next few months under the auspices of the IWA Sustainable Boating Group and will report back.

 

For many of us with a diesel or solid fuel stove with a back boiler there is a summer "hungry gap" when it's too warm to light the stove but one still needs hot water. Hopefully this is when the sun is shining to these fill that gap with the aid of a couple of these. I intend to plumb a pair into the engine coil in the clarifier c/w a couple of two way valves and a simple differential controller. We shall see ..........

 

Please do report back. A friend has just installed a proper vaccuum tube type solar collector on his (proper) widebeam. He is still optimising his controller settings but so far its mixed results. On the recent hottest day ever it worked well but on a typical sunny day it struggles to get beyond luke warm so on a typical english overcast day he does not expect very much.  Not sure but I think he is pumping his calorifier water directly rather than going via one of the loops. Also he does have a big calorifier.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

As I can't get a sensible response to my queries I'm going to shoot up there as soon as I get a minute and that is a question near the top of my list. However, given that it's closed circuit the doesn't come into contact with the water that we use, how much of an issue is it likely to be? There isn't a great deal of difference between it and a domestic solar thermal set up.

 

Whilst it's a pretty funky website, it's rather short on data and performance figures (even taking account of all the inevitable variables).

 

 

In reality, probably little or none but I suggest it needs to be in the FAQs as it was 1) the first thing I looked for when I saw the thing, and 2) not mentioning it or why it is not a problem (if it isn't) looks unprofessional and like they are in denial over it. 3) Sooner or later if they don't have a policy over it and some research they can cite, some chancer will claim they caught it from a Solariskit and they could easily end up in court on the back foot if they aren't prepared. 

[Up-Side-Down]

32 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

In reality, probably little or none but I suggest it needs to be in the FAQs as it was 1) the first thing I looked for when I saw the thing, and 2) not mentioning it or why it is not a problem (if it isn't) looks unprofessional and like they are in denial over it. 3) Sooner or later if they don't have a policy over it and some research they can cite, some chancer will claim they caught it from a Solariskit and they could easily end up in court on the back foot if they aren't prepared. 

All good points. Their gravity feed system kit that I've just tripped over, however, is simply screaming Legionella at me!

[dmr]

Its just a bit of black plastic pipe in a funny shaped plastic box. Looks like a closed system to me so no more dangerous than the hot water inside the pipes in your house (or boat). I believe that Legionella needs an open water spray. Cooling towers were the big issue.

I suspect the enclosure is to prevent heat loss, especially on a windy day, but is this system going to be much better than an old domestic radiator painted black?????

 

 

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I used to design 400 volt DC systems. To ensure they complied with the safety regulstions, you put contactors into the battery interconnects to seperate the battery into 50 volt sections. These were interlocked into the battery room door, so that you couldn't gain entry without breaking the battery into low voltage sections.

 

I'm sure it would be much easier to achieve with a 72 volt battery in a box.

I have 2 x 36 volts battery banks one on each swim, they are seriesed together at the big disconnect switch and then an electric disconnect switch prior to the speed controller.  Boxes have lids and all the interconnects rubber covers. The cables have heat shrink on the terminals, the motor has a shield which stops fingers and directs cold air at the brushes and then through the motor. 

Do I feel scared? not really  as I don't think I can isolate me from the electric bits any better 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Its just a bit of black plastic pipe in a funny shaped plastic box. Looks like a closed system to me so no more dangerous than the hot water inside the pipes in your house (or boat). I believe that Legionella needs an open water spray. Cooling towers were the big issue.

I suspect the enclosure is to prevent heat loss, especially on a windy day, but is this system going to be much better than an old domestic radiator painted black?????

 

 

 

A common fallacy! 

 

Imagine the closed loop heating up the water in the domestic water calorifier to exactly the temp for optimum legionella breeding. Now what about that open water spray you mentioned...? Who do I sue?

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Its just a bit of black plastic pipe in a funny shaped plastic box. Looks like a closed system to me so no more dangerous than the hot water inside the pipes in your house (or boat). I believe that Legionella needs an open water spray. Cooling towers were the big issue.

I suspect the enclosure is to prevent heat loss, especially on a windy day, but is this system going to be much better than an old domestic radiator painted black?????

 

 

Remember back in the 70s when people put razor blades under little pyramids overnight so they sharpened themselves ready for the morning. May be the same thing heats water

Can pyramids really sharpen knives? - Quora

Edited July 28, 2022 by ditchcrawler

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

A common fallacy! 

 

Imagine the closed loop heating up the water in the domestic water calorifier to exactly the temp for optimum legionella breeding. Now what about that open water spray you mentioned...? Who do I sue?

So, I run my engine and get the Calorifier up to about 80 degrees (naughty me) then over the next three days it progressively cools down. We have showers, are we at risk????  This must apply to most off grid boats???

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Remember back in the 70s when people put razor blades under little pyramids overnight so they sharpened themselves ready for the morning. May be the same thing heats water

Can pyramids really sharpen knives? - Quora

 

Next you'll be telling me to put nightlights into upside down flowerpots........................or even to buy an ecofan 😀

[IanD]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I have 2 x 36 volts battery banks one on each swim, they are seriesed together at the big disconnect switch and then an electric disconnect switch prior to the speed controller.  Boxes have lids and all the interconnects rubber covers. The cables have heat shrink on the terminals, the motor has a shield which stops fingers and directs cold air at the brushes and then through the motor. 

Do I feel scared? not really  as I don't think I can isolate me from the electric bits any better 

Doesn't matter whether you feel scared or not, it's your installation so it's your problem. If you want to juggle with chainsaws and it goes wrong, that's your problem too.

 

The rules are different for any supplier of equipment like an electric boat drive system running at more than 60V, they have to follow the safety regulations including certification-- and there are lots of these and they have to be able to prove that they meet them, where your DIY installation might or not meet them but nobody cares.

 

I've explained why this is several times, but like so many other discussions you fall back onto the "it works for me" argument, ignoring the fact that you're in a small minority and your circumstances don't apply to most other people... 😞

 

(EVs and charging them, composting toilets, cruising habits, solar power, electric drives -- the list is a long one...)

 

And before you accuse me of doing the same -- I'm very well aware that my circumstances and preferences are different from many others and wouldn't suit them, and I don't suggest they should do what I do just because it works for me -- in fact I often say exactly the opposite... 😉

Edited July 28, 2022 by IanD

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Doesn't matter whether you feel scared or not, it's your installation so it's your problem. If you want to juggle with chainsaws and it goes wrong, that's your problem too.

 

The rules are different for any supplier of equipment running at more than 60V, they have to follow the safety regulations -- and there are lots of these, your installation might or not meet them.

 

I've explained why this is several times, but like so many other discussions you fall back onto the "it works for me" argument, ignoring the fact that you're in a small minority and your circumstances don't apply to most other people... 😞

 

(EVs, composting toilets, solar power -- the list is a long one...)

 

I do wonder about your motives about being on this forum.

 

All you seem to do is talk other people down, shout 'no I am right, you are wrong, I know more about the subject than you do, I'm an engineer so I know what I'm talking about', Im wealthy, so poorer folk can leave the cut if they cannot afford it', 

 

So what is your motive Ian? 

 

A massive ego massage?

 

And appending each of your tedious posts with a winky emoji is just pathetic.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2022 by The Happy Nomad

[MtB]

38 minutes ago, dmr said:

So, I run my engine and get the Calorifier up to about 80 degrees (naughty me) then over the next three days it progressively cools down. We have showers, are we at risk????  This must apply to most off grid boats???

 

 

No actually. Domestic heat pump systems keep the water at 55c-ish and have an immersion heater that raises the temp weekly to 65c (IIRC) in order to kill off any legionella getting a foothold. The boaters who keep their caulifowers at 50c all the time most definitely are at risk. 

 

Does the Solariskit raise the stored water to 65c periodically? I suspect not. 

 

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Next you'll be telling me to put nightlights into upside down flowerpots

 

Oi!  @dylanwinter is one of our members...

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, peterboat said:

I have 2 x 36 volts battery banks one on each swim, they are seriesed together at the big disconnect switch and then an electric disconnect switch prior to the speed controller.  Boxes have lids and all the interconnects rubber covers. The cables have heat shrink on the terminals, the motor has a shield which stops fingers and directs cold air at the brushes and then through the motor. 

Do I feel scared? not really  as I don't think I can isolate me from the electric bits any better 

 

The reason why DC is limited to 60 volts without additional measures is because of the risk from burns. Unlike AC, which passes through the zero.point 50 times a second, and thus tends to throw you off, DC doesn't.

 

It would be relatively simple to add a contactor between the banks which traps a Castell Key when closed. When switched off the key is released and can then be used to open the Castell Locks on your battery boxes.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Unlike AC, which passes through the zero.point 50 times a second,

 

Point of Order...

 

I think it passes through zero 100 times a second.

 

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

I do wonder about your motives about being on this forum.

 

All you seem to do is talk other people down, shout 'no I am right, you are wrong, I know more about the subject than you do, I'm an engineer so I know what I'm talking about', Im wealthy, so poorer folk can leave the cut if they cannot afford it', 

 

So what is your motive Ian? 

 

A massive ego massage?

 

And appending each of your tedious posts with a winky emoji is just pathetic.

 

 

 

 

Worse Martin he doesn't actually have either an electric car or boat yet, so has no practical knowledge of either subject! Its like the charging network for cars, he advocated large capital from government, when in reality large private investment is covering it nicely. But what do I know I only own an EV and have built an electric boat 

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

The reason why DC is limited to 60 volts without additional measures is because of the risk from burns. Unlike AC, which passes through the zero.point 50 times a second, and thus tends to throw you off, DC doesn't.

 

It would be relatively simple to add a contactor between the banks which traps a Castell Key when closed. When switched off the key is released and can then be used to open the Castell Locks on your battery boxes.

Currently it's a electric screwdriver to take the lids off.

[PD1964]

10 hours ago, M_JG said:

 

I do wonder about your motives about being on this forum.

 

All you seem to do is talk other people down, shout 'no I am right, you are wrong, I know more about the subject than you do, I'm an engineer so I know what I'm talking about', Im wealthy, so poorer folk can leave the cut if they cannot afford it', 

 

So what is your motive Ian? 

 

A massive ego massage?

 

And appending each of your tedious posts with a winky emoji is just pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 Maybe it’s time for a build blog for @IanD as his build ideas and opinions has taken a few threads off track, with his extra long in-depth tech replies. One thing I would say, looking at his shell and engine set up it’s nothing new that the builders haven’t done before and been exhibited at Crick, the only thing he seams to have changed is the rudder, which IMO wont be a massive game changer in the Narrowboat building world, so no “exposing builders secrets” to worry about. But I doubt a Build Blog will happen as he may not like the response from boaters to how insignificant all this high tech is, in the real world of practical boating on the canals.

[David Mack]

12 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

As I can't get a sensible response to my queries I'm going to shoot up there as soon as I get a minute and that is a question near the top of my list. However, given that it's closed circuit the doesn't come into contact with the water that we use, how much of an issue is it likely to be? There isn't a great deal of difference between it and a domestic solar thermal set up.

Maybe in your setup, but their hot tub setup just looks to be circulating the water people are going to be immersed in.

12 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

 

Whilst it's a pretty funky website, it's rather short on data and performance figures (even taking account of all the inevitable variables).

And big on 'Buy Now' links!

 

Since the unit is not that big, the amount of sun light intercepted is fairly small, and so the output is never going to be that large.

Edited July 29, 2022 by David Mack

[IanD]

29 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 Maybe it’s time for a build blog for @IanD as his build ideas and opinions has taken a few threads off track, with his extra long in-depth tech replies. One thing I would say, looking at his shell and engine set up it’s nothing new that the builders haven’t done before and been exhibited at Crick, the only thing he seams to have changed is the rudder, which IMO wont be a massive game changer in the Narrowboat building world, so no “exposing builders secrets” to worry about. But I doubt a Build Blog will happen as he may not like the response from boaters to how insignificant all this high tech is, in the real world of practical boating on the canals.

 

I've kept pointing out that most or all of what I've done has been done before, and that what I'm doing is because it suits me, and wouldn't suit others. Some people keep repeatedly saying that I'm claiming my boat is wonderful and perfect (no it isn't -- it's a compromise, like any narrowboat) and that everyone else should have on like it, when I'm doing exactly the opposite.

 

I decided not to do a build blog because I know it would attract exactly the kind of sarky personal comments that appear on this thread, like yours... 😉

Edited July 29, 2022 by IanD

[Up-Side-Down]

36 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Currently it's a electric screwdriver to take the lids off.

Currently ............!!