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Composting toilet waste disposal in CaRT bins


IanD

Composting toilet waste disposal in CaRT bins  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Should CaRT continue to allow non-composted human waste from composting toilets to be disposed of in their waste bins (previous CaRT policy) or ban it (updated CaRT policy)?

    • Yes, they should continue to allow this in future
      16
    • No, this should be prohibited in future
      56
    • I don't care
      14


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2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

So long as one is not using blue (formaldehyde) in a cassette toilet I can't see what benefit a bag and bin toilet can possibly have over a cassette unless you have a garden and need compost. You still have to visit sani stations to get rid of the wee etc. Seems like spending a lot of money for little benefit.

Are composting bogs the new trendy thing to have like Apple computers, then Tesla cars were?

 

 

Because the urine is tipped in a hedge.

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8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

This is what happens when people don't genuinely want to find solutions, they just want to shout names, throw stones and seed division.

Personally I would welcome a solution.   However nobody has come up with one they know works, is costed and at a reasonable (or should that be an acceptable price) and could be worked at both marina level and CRT system level.

 

I find it interesting that trying to get my head round the problem I asked 2 questions yesterday and only Dr Bob who only partial bins has made any attempt to answer.   Which I am afraid as far as I am concerned means most owners of composting toilets only want the cheapest easiest option which is for CRT to stick with the "old policy". 

 

As always just my opinion other opinions are available.

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16 hours ago, David Mack said:

In what sense are modern disposable nappies recyclable? Used nappies will comprise a mix of plastics, the absorbent medium, wee and poo. How practically could you separate the various components for recycling/treatment?

They recycle them in my area

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14 hours ago, LadyG said:

I'm no expert on incontinence,  but in what way are they recylable, they are landfillable or incineratable, but are you saying we can re use soiled nappies of the modern type? Plastic wraps, gel, and all. Get a grip. 

Our local council recycles them, they don’t explain how but I have no reason to doubt that they do. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

IME those on the 'winning' side do this just as much, with less excuse for doing so.

This is what happens when people don't genuinely want to find solutions, they just want to shout names, throw stones and seed division.

That's a bit rich, coming from someone who accused me of insulting people and being one of a tiny minority shouting down the debate, and claiming that lots of people disagreed with the ban and that 90% of boaters didn't care anyway ?

 

So looking at the numbers so far 20% of replies were "I don't care", so outnumbered 4:1 by "I do care". 20:80 is somewhat different to your 90:10 claim.

 

From those who cared, 20% think we should carry on as before, 80% think the new CaRT rule should stand. So, lots of people (a 4:1 majority) agree with the ban, again opposite to your claim.

 

If you want to do a Trump and cry "Fake news, this isn't a valid poll, not everyone got to vote, I didn't like the questions" then go ahead, but I don't think you'll convince anybody, the margins against what you claim are just too big.

 

And yes this is causing division -- between a small minority of boaters who want to carrying on doing something because it's good for them, and a large majority of boaters who want this stopped because it's bad for them and CaRT.

 

[before arguing about the wording of "small minority" vs. "large majority", look at the numbers, these terms are literally correct]

 

It's called "privatisation of profit and socialisation of risk/debt", and is exactly the kind of behaviour that companies are excoriated for doing.

 

Note that CaRT are currently not proposing to ban composting toilets, only to stop the waste from boaters who don't use them properly being put into their bins. They're relying on the goodwill of boaters to make this happen, because there's no way to detect/enforce it and currently no sanction if you're caught doing it, but at least the "good composters" like Peter can carry on using them properly. Which logically suggests that the "good composters" should be in favour of this rule change if it reduces the chances of a complete ban in the future...

 

Oh no, now we have even more division -- the "good composters" have joined forces with the rest of the boaters to persecute an even smaller minority of "non-composters". Who is going to stand up for their freedom and their rights to chuck their poo into a waste bin now?

 

[N.B. no insults to intelligence or morals, no name-calling, no throwing stones, no shouting down -- just facts, which not everybody wants to face up to]

Edited by IanD
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15 minutes ago, IanD said:

That's a bit rich, coming from someone who accused me of insulting people and being one of a tiny minority shouting down the debate, and claiming that lots of people disagreed with the ban and that 90% of boaters didn't care anyway ?

 

So looking at the numbers so far 20% of replies were "I don't care", so outnumbered 4:1 by "I do care". 20:80 is somewhat different to your 90:10 claim.

 

From those who cared, 20% think we should carry on as before, 80% think the new CaRT rule should stand. So, lots of people (a 4:1 majority) agree with the ban, again opposite to your claim.

 

If you want to do a Trump and cry "Fake news, this isn't a valid poll, not everyone got to vote, I didn't like the questions" then go ahead, but I don't think you'll convince anybody, the margins against what you claim are just too big.

 

And yes this is causing division -- between a small minority of boaters who want to carrying on doing something because it's good for them, and a large majority of boaters who want this stopped because it's bad for them and CaRT.

 

[before arguing about the wording of "small minority" vs. "large majority", look at the numbers, these terms are literally correct]

 

It's called "privatisation of profit and socialisation of risk/debt", and is exactly the kind of behaviour that companies are excoriated for doing.

 

Note that CaRT are currently not proposing to ban composting toilets, only to stop the waste from boaters who don't use them properly being put into their bins. They're relying on the goodwill of boaters to make this happen, because there's no way to detect/enforce it and currently no sanction if you're caught doing it, but at least the "good composters" like Peter can carry on using them properly. Which logically suggests that the "good composters" should be in favour of this rule change if it reduces the chances of a complete ban in the future...

 

Oh no, now we have even more division -- the "good composters" have joined forces with the rest of the boaters to persecute an even smaller minority of "non-composters". Who is going to stand up for their freedom and their rights to chuck their poo into a waste bin now?

 

[N.B. no insults to intelligence or morals, no name-calling, no throwing stones, no shouting down -- just facts, which not everybody wants to face up to]

I'm not sure that the highlighted extract is a fact rather than an opinion. I would fit within your (not my) category of "good composter" but I voted "don't care" because     a     I don't consider myself involved

                                                                               b     My waste (were I to 'bag and bin' it) is not offensive 

                                                                               c     I can see no way to enforce  'no bin' rule

                                                                               d    The possibility of a ban in the future does not convince me

 

Either way, this "good composter" is not interested in persecuting anybody nor in spending my boating time curtain twitching.

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3 minutes ago, frahkn said:

I'm not sure that the highlighted extract is a fact rather than an opinion. I would fit within your (not my) category of "good composter" but I voted "don't care" because     a     I don't consider myself involved

                                                                               b     My waste (were I to 'bag and bin' it) is not offensive 

                                                                               c     I can see no way to enforce  'no bin' rule

                                                                               d    The possibility of a ban in the future does not convince me

 

Either way, this "good composter" is not interested in persecuting anybody nor in spending my boating time curtain twitching.

The highlighted bit was to use a bit of levity to try and show how ridiculous claims of "persecution" are, and that "division" is inevitable when two sides hold diametrically opposite views -- it's funny how it's usually the minority protesting about this, when what they really mean is that they don't like it being pointed out that most people don't agree with them and would rather they either changed their minds or at the very least shut up banging on about it... ?

 

You are of course perfectly entitled to hold your views about persecution and curtain-twitching, even though most people don't seem to agree ?

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32 minutes ago, IanD said:

The highlighted bit was to use a bit of levity to try and show how ridiculous claims of "persecution" are, and that "division" is inevitable when two sides hold diametrically opposite views -- it's funny how it's usually the minority protesting about this, when what they really mean is that they don't like it being pointed out that most people don't agree with them and would rather they either changed their minds or at the very least shut up banging on about it... ?

 

You are of course perfectly entitled to hold your views about persecution and curtain-twitching, even though most people don't seem to agree ?

Ah well, there are a lot of issues on which I find most people in disagreement with me; they are completely free to be wrong if they wish!?

 

And you are, of course, perfectly entitled to "bang on" about poo or any other matter, time hangs rather heavy in lockdown.?

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2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I'm glad to see that peeps are now understanding where this is going.

Still doesn't justify adding much larger quantities of bagged uncomposted poo to the CaRT bin mix though, no matter how many times you keep banging the nappy drum... ?

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17 hours ago, droshky said:

Not instantly. If you’re using it most of the time for months, that creates a composting substance which you decant into another bin for a few months, then spread it on yer roses. If you leave it for ages you get a tough crust over an incompostable mess which you Chuck into a disposal thingy

By "disposal thingy", do you mean a bin? 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Jerra said:

It would be interesting to know the general opinion of "composting Loo" owners on the following.

 

1.  If there was a cost to dispose of the "product" how much would you expect to pay?

 

2.  What volume would you expect to be able to dispose of for that fee?

They'd like to spend a penny, obvs. ?

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1 hour ago, Iain_S said:

By "disposal thingy", do you mean a bin? 

 

 

No. I mean gradually into an toilet disposal point, same as all those cassettes. We never put it in the bin. It either goes home to the garden in a sealed bin to rot down, or, after winter for example, when that probably won’t work, one of us has the messy job.

 

I’ve never had the remotest sign of toilet point blockage, but I guess if you didn’t do it with a little care there might be. Obviously only use a big point with a hose and a flush. It’s a horrible job but it’s once a year. The rest is rotted and spread. And there’s no rush, if there’s loads of people queuing we can wait a week

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3 hours ago, Loddon said:

Surely anyone with  sense uses Terry toweling nappies ? 

I did, as a single parent of a little one. Twin tub washer at home. Bucket and nappisan when camping. 

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19 hours ago, droshky said:

No. I mean gradually into an toilet disposal point, same as all those cassettes. We never put it in the bin. It either goes home to the garden in a sealed bin to rot down, or, after winter for example, when that probably won’t work, one of us has the messy job.

 

I’ve never had the remotest sign of toilet point blockage, but I guess if you didn’t do it with a little care there might be. Obviously only use a big point with a hose and a flush. It’s a horrible job but it’s once a year. The rest is rotted and spread. And there’s no rush, if there’s loads of people queuing we can wait a week

There have been quite a few reports of Elsan disposals being blocked by the contents of composting loos. The blockage in a sewage system can be fairly remote from the point of input, and not evident at the time the deposit is made. Others may not be as careful as you!

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Just now, Iain_S said:

The blockage in a sewage system can be fairly remote from the point of input, and not evident at the time the deposit is made.

 

That's because they get saved for later in a bucket/cassette/holding tank! :D

 

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40 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

There have been quite a few reports of Elsan disposals being blocked by the contents of composting loos. The blockage in a sewage system can be fairly remote from the point of input, and not evident at the time the deposit is made. Others may not be as careful as you!

Mmm, yes that sounds possible, yeuch. Where we are now (if we ever get back on board!) there is a point but it’s titchy with no flush, so we wouldn’t use it. I can imagine it blocking if someone just chucked the lot in.

 

Given the general tenor of this discussion, it seems possible that composters may be carrying the can (boom boom) for wet wipes, nappies and so on. But I surmise.

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There's a much bigger risk if composting fans keep on arguing that "it doesn't smell really" or "nappies and dog poo are just as bad or worse", as has being going on for many pages, complete with numbers about dog poo size and frequency.

 

The person who was mainly responsible for this asked me privately to "stop my campaign against composting toilets" because some marinas have cottoned on to these arguments, and are now saying that since they banned composting toilets (which unlike CaRT they can easily enforce by not allowing boats with them to moor in the marina), if dog poo is even worse then maybe we should ban dog poo from our bins as well -- which they can presumably do by not allowing boats with dogs to moor either...

 

This is not me panic-mongering or whipping up resentment against composting toilets, it's a request from a composting supporter to please stop arguing about this in public, because it's now raised the dog-poo issue and the consequences could be severe.

 

It should be obvious even to dog-poo haters that marinas doing this is grossly unfair since the same ban doesn't apply to the 1000x more dogs whose owners live in houses; there are a lot of people with dogs on the canals (far more than with babies), and marinas either banning them from marinas or even saying that they can't use their bins for the bags would have a huge detrimental effect on the canal community. Unfortunately marinas could probably do this legally, fair or not, because they get to choose who moors there.

 

I agreed to stop posting if the pro-composters did the same, and it seems to have got quieter, but hasn't stopped. For the good of the canal community, could I suggest that other people do the same?

 

So I'm going to ask the moderators to close this thread to any further comments.

 

If any pro-composters want to still continue putting their arguments forward (which they can of course do, free speech and all that...) they can start and own a thread of their own; that way if the raging poo fire ignites again and other boaters (e.g. dog owners) suffer the consequences, it will be clear where the blame lies. I would hope they'd resist the temptation to do this, no matter how much they want to personally, to avoid the possible negative impact on the boating community.

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26 minutes ago, IanD said:

If any pro-composters want to still continue putting their arguments forward (which they can of course do, free speech and all that...) they can start and own a thread of their own; that way if the raging poo fire ignites again and other boaters (e.g. dog owners) suffer the consequences, it will be clear where the blame lies. I would hope they'd resist the temptation to do this, no matter how much they want to personally, to avoid the possible negative impact on the boating community.

 

It's a ridiculous notion that anybody 'owns' a thread.

 

As you say yourself  'free speech and all that.....'

 

You opened a thread and simply don't like the way it developed. Tough.

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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21 minutes ago, IanD said:

The person who was mainly responsible for this asked me privately to "stop my campaign against composting toilets" because some marinas have cottoned on to these arguments, and are now saying that since they banned composting toilets (which unlike CaRT they can easily enforce by not allowing boats with them to moor in the marina), if dog poo is even worse then maybe we should ban dog poo from our bins as well -- which they can presumably do by not allowing boats with dogs to moor either...

 

Why should marinas ban dog owners ?

I think every marina I have ever used has 'dog bins' around the marina, so if the doggy-bags are going into their general waste bins it must only be the marina staff doing it when emptying the dog-bag-bins, so is easy to control, or stop.

 

 

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