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CRT / Bridgewater Canal Agreement


David Mack

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Posted (edited)

The July 2020 Boaters Update on the CRT website quoted above has been updated with:

"3 Sep 2020 - Please note that there is a delay in implementing this change. Once active, it'll be announced in a future Boaters' Update."

As far as I know there has been nothing since.

Edited by David Mack
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8 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

Thanks for that David - I missed that info.

I missed all of it! As nothing appears to be in writing anywhere, presumably we are still working under old rules. The whole thing seems to be sinking into a bureaucratic mess, or it would be if I could spell bureaucratic, which I should be able to, as an ex civil servant.

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6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I missed all of it! As nothing appears to be in writing anywhere, presumably we are still working under old rules. The whole thing seems to be sinking into a bureaucratic mess, or it would be if I could spell bureaucratic, which I should be able to, as an ex civil servant.

But weren't the old rules that you had to wait 28 days to go back on?  There's nothing about that on the website.

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33 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

http://www.bridgewatercanal.co.uk/news/amendmentsforagreement

 

Not the easiest to find as it's buried in the 2016 news archive.

 

 

Hmmm, that's from 2016 though.  The current licensing page mentions nothing about it.

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

To add a bit there are notices on approach - this one is at Leigh:

 

DSCN0470-1024x768.jpg

 

Photo from Mintball's blog at https://mintball.tty.org.uk/2016/09/ because it's legible!

 

My photo is too blurry to read the words, but the sign was still there when I came off the Bridgewater in June last year.

That's more like it.  Interestingly, if you look to purchase a permit on the website, it simply tells you to call.  This is the type of general slack incompetence I'm very familiar with as a CRT boater.

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42 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

But weren't the old rules that you had to wait 28 days to go back on?  There's nothing about that on the website.

The old rules were that there weren't any rules, just a reciprocal agreement that you could spend so much time on it.  There wasn't, as far as I ever knew, any time restriction for returning, and certainly I never got questioned by anybody when i nipped up to the L&L for a couple of weeks and cameback again.  Not been up there for a few years though.

 

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

To add a bit there are notices on approach - this one is at Leigh:

 

DSCN0470-1024x768.jpg

 

Photo from Mintball's blog at https://mintball.tty.org.uk/2016/09/ because it's legible!

 

My photo is too blurry to read the words, but the sign was still there when I came off the Bridgewater in June last year.

Per CRT, that sign no longer reflect the actual new rules.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

Per CRT, that sign no longer reflect the actual new rules.

Nothing to do with CRT. Those are the new rules that the Bridgewater unilaterally implemented without warning 3 or 4 years ago, much to the annoyance of CRT who I believe had no prior warning. 

It seems the actual reciprocal agreement , which gives boaters based on both organisations' waterways some limited use of the other's waters, is lost in the mists of time and nobody seems to know the precise terms  and so can't contradict the new interpretation.

 

That a new agreement was announced and then deferred suggests that either CRT or the Bridgewater got cold feet about the proposed arrangements.

Edited by David Mack
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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I missed all of it! As nothing appears to be in writing anywhere, presumably we are still working under old rules. The whole thing seems to be sinking into a bureaucratic mess, or it would be if I could spell bureaucratic, which I should be able to, as an ex civil servant.

It could be on hold due to Covid 19 as staff maybe on furlough.

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  • 2 months later...

That will snooker trips to Liverpool or even the Leeds and Liverpool (which we hoped to do this year) unless when you go off the Bridgewater at Leigh, you don't come back for at least 28 days. Oh well, up the Trent it is!  Or am I missing something? 

 

haggis

Edited by haggis
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2 minutes ago, haggis said:

That will snooker trips to Liverpool or even the Leeds and Liverpool (which we hoped to do this year) unless when you go off the Bridgewater at Leigh, you don't come back for at least 28 days. Oh well, up the Trent it is!  Or am I kissing something? 

 

haggis

 

Spend 28 days+ on the Pennines - L&L, A&C, Rochdale, Hudd, C&H.  

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Spend 28 days+ on the Pennines - L&L, A&C, Rochdale, Hudd, C&H.  

having done the Rochdale several years ago, I have no burning desire to do it again and while I am sure Iain would like to do the Huddersfield and Standedge, I am not keen ? 

I have wanted to do the L & L again to Leeds for years but there is never enough of it open when we are out on Kelpie! We did it several years ago and did the big ring going back up the Trent and the T & M. It was a great trip and we might repeat it, Covid willing! I remember we left Keadby at 6am with the sun in our eyes and moored for the night at Gunthorpe, again with the sun in our eyes. A good days boating. 

 

haggis

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7 minutes ago, haggis said:

having done the Rochdale several years ago, I have no burning desire to do it again and while I am sure Iain would like to do the Huddersfield and Standedge, I am not keen ? 

I have wanted to do the L & L again to Leeds for years but there is never enough of it open when we are out on Kelpie! We did it several years ago and did the big ring going back up the Trent and the T & M. It was a great trip and we might repeat it, Covid willing! I remember we left Keadby at 6am with the sun in our eyes and moored for the night at Gunthorpe, again with the sun in our eyes. A good days boating. 

 

haggis

I'd suggest now's the time to do it. I'd be surprised if there's anything like the amount of vomit around the locks on a morning these strange days as there was and will be again this summer. :sick:

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

That will snooker trips to Liverpool or even the Leeds and Liverpool (which we hoped to do this year) unless when you go off the Bridgewater at Leigh, you don't come back for at least 28 days. Oh well, up the Trent it is!  Or am I missing something? 

 

haggis

I think the official position is that you need to buy a short term Bridgewater license for the return trip if within 28 days. We will be in this position as we planned on going from T&M to Liverpool docks and back later in the year.

 

Extract from the Bridgewater licensing page, but not up to date with the revised agreement.

 

C&RT craft wishing to extend beyond the 7 day reciprocal arrangement period must obtain a temporary short term Bridgewater Canal Licence at a cost of £40 for 7 consecutive days. If you wish to obtain a temporary short term Bridgewater Canal licence please contact the Bridgewater Canal Company on telephone 0161 629 8266.

When contacting the company, we will require the following information:

Boat Index Number

Boat Name

Your name and address

Insurance details

BSS details

Date you wish the licence to commence

Debit card details

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Might as well put this here as well as on the Pomona thread

 

After much faffing about on the CaRT site, which seemed to remember me as having a login, but forgotten everything else about it, (although they are still sending stoppage notices of interest), I went to the bookings section.

Couldn't find any mention of the Bridgewater ...

 

Thought : are CaRT going to pass details of boats which have booked to Peel? Is booking actually necessary?

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I think I'll do what I've always done and ignore all that bollox. Happy for the Bridgewater/ peel holdings to invoice me but not going out of my way to pay them or book anything... 

 

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25 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Might as well put this here as well as on the Pomona thread

 

After much faffing about on the CaRT site, which seemed to remember me as having a login, but forgotten everything else about it, (although they are still sending stoppage notices of interest), I went to the bookings section.

Couldn't find any mention of the Bridgewater ...

 

Thought : are CaRT going to pass details of boats which have booked to Peel? Is booking actually necessary?

That is because the article in the Boaters Update stated that from the 29th March, the booking system would be live, try again Monday.

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  • 3 weeks later...

When the new agreement was noted in the Boaters Update in late March (Bridgewater notification in Boaters Update) they stated 10 days on Bridgewater waters for CRT licensed boat, no return within 28. I wrote to CRT stating that This meant that for people transiting through from e.g. northern T&M to Liverpool and then back to home moorings on northern T&M needed to buy a Bridgewater license for the return journey. I have just received an email from CRT stating that the boat licensing team have clarified the times within the agreement to being essentially 7 + 3 days not one block of 10, the 7 days allowing for an outgoing passing from CRT waters to CRT waters passing through the Bridgewater and the 3 days for the return journey if this is within the 28 day window. The CRT booking system has outbound and return journey options when you make your booking. You do not need to book the return date when you make the outbound booking so can book the return based on what happens time wise during your journey. This makes much more sense and is more workable not needing a short term Bridgewater license for the return journey. They said they will be adding some more detailed instructions / explanatory document shortly to the booking page.

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When I booked a passage last week, the CRT booking system wouldn’t let me book on the day of entry, it had to be at least the day before.

The other point is the booking system wants an exit date (presumably to start a new 28 day clock running). This means planning and sticking to that plan, never mind the weather. You could, of course, just book 7 days even if you plan to do it in 2 or 3 days.

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