Time to fit a second tank for central heating

[peterboat]

Shamelessly stolen from the other channel it would seem that red diesel is history

about an hour ago  

waterwaysworld.com/community/latest_news

[pearley]

And for your diesel gennie.

[Alan de Enfield]

There appears to be, effectively. absolutely no difference in the cost to the boater as we are already paying 'white' prices for propulsion and rebated prices for non propulsion. The only difference will be the colour of the diesel - UNLESS you have been lying and not paying the correct split.

 

No need to fit a second tank as you can use rebated fuel for non-propulsion.

 

 

5.37 As committed to at Budget 2020, the government has been exploring options to prevent users of private pleasure craft with only one fuel tank on board for propulsion and non-propulsion having to pay a higher rate of duty on their non-propulsion use of diesel than they currently pay.

 

5.38 The government is considering introducing a new relief scheme where approved fuel suppliers would be able to deduct from the sale price the duty difference on the proportion of white diesel intended for non-propulsion use. The fuel suppliers would then reclaim this deducted duty from HMRC and reflect this in the price charged to the private pleasure craft user at the point of sale.

 

5.39 Analysis by both the industry and HMRC previously suggested that a split of 60% for propulsion and 40% for non-propulsion use probably reflected most crafts’ typical fuel use. The government would welcome views on whether this apportionment remains typical, with supporting evidence.

 

5.40 The government would also welcome views on whether the relief should be a fixed percentage or whether it should be capped at a maximum percentage. A fixed percentage would mean a written declaration from craft users of how they use their fuel would not be required and it should make it slightly easier for fuel suppliers to work out the duty that needs to be deducted from the sale price and compile all the claims for HMRC. A relief capped at a maximum percentage would allow craft users to more accurately reflect the amount of diesel they intend to use for non-propulsion. This would necessitate a written declaration from the craft user to the fuel supplier on how they intended to use each tank of fuel (which would need to be made available to HMRC on request), although craft users could lodge a standing declaration with any supplier where they were a regular customer to save them making new declarations each time they refuelled.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Wanderer Vagabond]

29 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Shamelessly stolen from the other channel it would seem that red diesel is history

about an hour ago  

waterwaysworld.com/community/latest_news

Don't really understand the title of the thread. If they are stopping the use of red diesel by boaters for propulsion then all marinas are going to sell will be white diesel so why bother getting a separate tank when finding a supplier is going to be difficult?

 

The funny side of things is that the red diesel issue was always blamed on the EU, now we have left we are going to comply with what they have been saying all along. How odd is that?

[Rose Narrowboats]

And I suspect more will now stop selling it as well.

 

I think we will - it's too much of a theft risk.

 

Plus we'll still have our duty of care to HMRC versus the user's right to self declaration conundrum as per Alan's quote.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Rose Narrowboats

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

And I suspect more will now stop selling it as well.

 

I think we will - it's too much of a theft risk.

I think that there will also be a huge uptake in boaters using road-side garages as the price per litre will be considerably lower than canal side sellers ( buying power, group deals, local competition, supermarkets etc) and the low volumes used by the typical NB means that a jerry-can full will probably last 2 or 3 days so only need to fill up every week or so with 3 jerry cans.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Don't really understand the title of the thread. If they are stopping the use of red diesel by boaters for propulsion then all marinas are going to sell will be white diesel so why bother getting a separate tank when finding a supplier is going to be difficult?

 

The funny side of things is that the red diesel issue was always blamed on the EU, now we have left we are going to comply with what they have been saying all along. How odd is that?

The article says the govt. believe that offering cheap fuel is a bar to helping improving the environment.

 

So its a decision that doesn't directly come from the EU. It was made independent of the EU even though the 'battle' originated in Brussels.

[peterboat]

I think diesel theft from boats will become a real issue

[Keeping Up]

 

7 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

So its a decision that doesn't directly come from the EU. It was made independent of the EU even though the 'battle' originated in Brussels

Boaters were promised tax-free fuel, forever, by Winston Churchill after Dunkirk. The EU said that was OK provided the UK formally re-requested it regularly, but Gordon Brown wanted the tax revenue so he "forgot" to reapply for the exemption which meant he could blame the EU.

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

The article says the govt. believe that offering cheap fuel is a bar to helping improving the environment.

This was all planned several years ago when the Government (we) became the the first country in the world to set targets for zero emissions and the laws to achieve that were passed in 2019

 

In June 2019, the UK became the first major economy in the world to pass laws guaranteeing an end to its contribution to global warming by 2050. The target will require the UK to bring all greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050, compared with the previous target of at least an 80% reduction from 1990 levels.

 

I have many times posted the documents outlining how and when this will be achieved and the fact that ALL boats in UK waters (both inland and sea-going) will be zero emissions by 2050, and that no new boats can be built after 2035 unless the are Zero emissions.

 

Of course - the replies are normally "it'll never happen", "by 2050 it won't worry me" etc

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[peterboat]

I have two tanks on my boat already both are filled with kero for the bubble boiler and the whispergen, I realised a couple of years ago this was on the cards and went electric, whether others will follow suit I have no idea but it works for me

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

4 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

Boaters were promised tax-free fuel, forever, by Winston Churchill after Dunkirk.

 

I have many times searched for any written evidence of this but have failed.

Do you have any evidence that this legend is true ?

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This was all planned several years ago when the Government (we) became the the first country in the world to set targets for zero emissions and the laws to achieve that were passed in 2019

 

In June 2019, the UK became the first major economy in the world to pass laws guaranteeing an end to its contribution to global warming by 2050. The target will require the UK to bring all greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050, compared with the previous target of at least an 80% reduction from 1990 levels.

 

I have many times posted the documents outlining how and when this will be achieved and the fact that ALL boats in UK waters (both inland and sea-going) will be zero emissions by 2050, and that no new boats can be built after 2035 unless the are Zero emissions.

 

O course - the replies are normally "it'll never happen", "by 2050 it won't worry me" etc

I got sick of banging on about it Alan the electric drive works for me, we are holiday in it next weekend so I hope its ok ?

[Keeping Up]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

I have many times searched for any written evidence of this but have failed.

Do you have any evidence that this legend is true ?

Sadly no I don't. I do know for certain that the modern part of the story, involving Gordon Brown, is true but again I don't have any written evidence.

[PD1964]

Who will it effect? It will be like when a pint of beer went up to a £1. We all still drank it and moaned about it for a short while, but it became the norm. As with this, we will all moan for a bit, but will still go out on our boats. As we do it for the joy of boats and the canals. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by PD1964

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Who will it effect? It will be like when a pint of beer went up to a £1. We all still drank it and moaned about it for a short while, but it became the norm. As with this, we will all moan for a bit, but will still go out on our boats. As we do it for the joy of boats and the canals. 

I think it will hit CCers harder than leisure boaters like me, though under normal conditions we are out every other weekend just to Kilnhurst on the leisure mooring to the right

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I think it will hit CCers harder than leisure boaters like me, though under normal conditions we are out every other weekend just to Kilnhurst on the leisure mooring to the right

I continuously cruise and move regularly, occasionally use the eberspacher hot air blower, but diesel is not high on my list of expenses. I doubt I'll notice the difference in the grand scheme of things. 

[ditchcrawler]

I dont think its all over yet if you read the actual Government papers and not someone trying to sell papers

[Cloudinspector]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This was all planned several years ago when the Government (we) became the the first country in the world to set targets for zero emissions and the laws to achieve that were passed in 2019

 

In June 2019, the UK became the first major economy in the world to pass laws guaranteeing an end to its contribution to global warming by 2050. The target will require the UK to bring all greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050, compared with the previous target of at least an 80% reduction from 1990 levels.

 

I have many times posted the documents outlining how and when this will be achieved and the fact that ALL boats in UK waters (both inland and sea-going) will be zero emissions by 2050, and that no new boats can be built after 2035 unless the are Zero emissions.

 

Of course - the replies are normally "it'll never happen", "by 2050 it won't worry me" etc

 

 

Yet they still construct new roads without dedicated cycle lanes and build new houses without solar panels on south facing roofs. 

[pearley]

28 minutes ago, Cloudinspector said:

Yet they still construct new roads without dedicated cycle lanes and build new houses without solar panels on south facing roofs. 

They built the Newbury bypass with a cycle lane but don't recall seeing a cyclist using it.

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I think it will hit CCers harder than leisure boaters like me, though under normal conditions we are out every other weekend just to Kilnhurst on the leisure mooring to the right

Especially the CCers in London featured on “George Clark’s Amazing Spaces” then again they’ll just go to the bank of Mum & Dad like they do to pay for their boats. Or the other London CCers who will stop moving to save fuel and just stay put, or is that what they do anyway? 
 Ah Life’s so much better up North.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Rumsky said:

I continuously cruise and move regularly, occasionally use the eberspacher hot air blower, but diesel is not high on my list of expenses. I doubt I'll notice the difference in the grand scheme of things. 

I've been paying 85p/l for over a year, mostly heating, so this looks like a big hike in cost, about 30%, and a move to more solid fuel/logs, and that has to be environmentally unfriendly. I certainly don't want to mess about with containers and filter funnels.

Edited July 10, 2020 by LadyG

[Keeping Up]

As someone who travels a lot and therefore buys about 1000 litres a year, I find that even a slight increase is rather significant.

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, Rose Narrowboats said:

And I suspect more will now stop selling it as well.

 

I think we will - it's too much of a theft risk.

 

Plus we'll still have our duty of care to HMRC versus the user's right to self declaration conundrum as per Alan's quote.

? I've always bought mine from you.

Can't say I'd blame you though, apart from all of the additional  aggravation  for you, you'll also be required to do even more as an unpaid collector of taxes and HMRC Administrator.

I also wonder how many CC'ers will get home from work to find a rainbow stain around their home?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 minutes ago, Keeping Up said:

As someone who travels a lot and therefore buys about 1000 litres a year, I find that even a slight increase is rather significant.

Yes, I also travel quite a lot, using about 100 litres a month so 1200 litres a year, but then how can I justify getting cheap diesel when those who need it for getting to and from work have to pay the full price? Whilst I have enjoyed the benefit of having cheap diesel over the years, justifying it  is more difficult. By my reckoning it will cost me about 80p a day more (£109 per month v £85 a month), that isn't going to break the bank anytime soon. There is going to be a need to pay more tax to finance what is currently going on, am I bothered? nah.