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Galilee

Horn and tunnel light

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Just now, alan_fincher said:

It shouldn't unless you have got the boat name a bit wrong!

There were three of them - Herald / Spirit / Pride of Free Enterprise.  Herald being the most infamous obviously.

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3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It shouldn't unless you have got the boat name a bit wrong!

Thank you, yes its the Herald. Incidentally I have been told it is out here ('pines ) as a Manila ferry, true or myth?

 

Myth, scrapped in 1988.

Edited by Boater Sam
added more

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4 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Thank you, yes its the Herald. Incidentally I have been told it is out here ('pines ) as a Manila ferry, true or myth?

Myth.  She was scrapped in 1988.

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Couldn't you fit two switches and use both wires as  positive's ( one to the horn, other to light) then pick up the negative's near the light and horn ?. 

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6 minutes ago, Glynn said:

Couldn't you fit two switches and use both wires as  positive's ( one to the horn, other to light) then pick up the negative's near the light and horn ?. 

Assuming there are negative wires there that can be used. Using the hull as the return path is a no-no. BSS fail and all round bad idea. The boat may have a conduit for wiring down the cabin. If so, then the easiest, if a horn is wanted at the front of the boat, is just to run another pair of wires down to the bow.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies

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14 minutes ago, Glynn said:

Couldn't you fit two switches and use both wires as  positive's ( one to the horn, other to light) then pick up the negative's near the light and horn ?. 

If you’re going to run a new +ve cable to the front then why not run a -ve at the same time?

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I've never met a BS inspector who looks at tunnel light negative wiring or any other possible common negative.

 

ETA having said that I have only had about a dozen BSS tickets and most of them from the same gentleman :)

Edited by magnetman

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2 hours ago, 1st ade said:

careful, you'll have someone along in a minute with a CANbus system that if the tunnel light stops drawing current mid-tunnel it switches the front cabin lights on and opens the bow doors...

Close. We have an “all lights on” button at the helm which turns on the cabin lights and welldeck under gunnel lights. It doesn’t open the front door but then we have glass windows in the front door!

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34 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I've never met a BS inspector who looks at tunnel light negative wiring or any other possible common negative.

 

ETA having said that I have only had about a dozen BSS tickets and most of them from the same gentleman :)

That's no surprise, I've had Examiners who have 'passed' the boat where there are 6 failures that I have set up as a 'secret shopper'.

I have also had a 'fail' on an Advisory and reported him to the BSS.

The standards and consistency of BSS examiners is very poor.

 

The last examiner did not actually look at the gas, the electrics, the fuel or the engines, he simply sat in the saloon and said "it got a BSS last time and I can see you have a CO alarm so no problem you have a pass".

 

Less than 20 minutes from me opening the marina gate to let him in, to opening the marina gates to let him out.

 

 

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Thanks everyone, I've ordered an aerosol horn from Midland Chandlers to cover the trip home.

 

I liked the idea of a trombone at the stern, or maybe a vuvuzela, but we have to do the Harecastle Tunnel to get the boat up north and I gather that breath power is not permissable in there :D

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's no surprise, I've had Examiners who have 'passed' the boat where there are 6 failures that I have set up as a 'secret shopper'.

I have also had a 'fail' on an Advisory and reported him to the BSS.

The standards and consistency of BSS examiners is very poor.

 

The last examiner did not actually look at the gas, the electrics, the fuel or the engines, he simply sat in the saloon and said "it got a BSS last time and I can see you have a CO alarm so no problem you have a pass".

 

Less than 20 minutes from me opening the marina gate to let him in, to opening the marina gates to let him out.

 

 

I’ve spent longer than that having a cup of tea with my examiner.

  • Greenie 1

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Is it in fact a BS fail if the steelwork of the boat is used as a negative for electrical accessories? 

 

My post earlier was about the comment made that it would be a BS fail. I am unsure that this is the case. I suspect not. 

 

Obviously it's not best practice but is it technically a BS fail and if so how would a BS inspector be expected to check this ?

 

;)

Edited by magnetman
Clarify

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2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Is it in fact a BS fail if the steelwork of the boat is used as a negative for electrical accessories. 

Obviously it's not best practice but is it technically a fail and if so how would a BS inspector be expected to check this ?

 

;)

It is not a fail it is just an Advisory  (will not pass this check does not mean it will not pass the BSS)

 

3.7.1
Is the electrical system insulated from the hull? 
Check any wiring that can be seen to a suitable device
such as a horn, headlamp, or navigation light for the
presence of a two‐wire insulated cable.
Electrical systems using the hull as a conductor
will not pass this check.
NOTE – an electrical fitment attached to a metal hull or superstructure and having only a single wire
connected indicates the use of the hull as a conductor.

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Thanks for that. 

 

So to clarify using the hull as an electrical conductor is not a BS fail. That's what I thought. 

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4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

The even wiser boater would have a monitoring system that checks current is being taken by the light filament when it’s switched on, and flashes a red warning light at the helm if it isn’t.

 

Unless, of course, the monitoring system fails or gives a false positive ...

 

A narrowboat ain't no aircraft! The default method is "go up front and have a look".

 

 

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

We have an “all lights on” button at the helm which turns on the cabin lights and welldeck under gunnel lights.

 

I have a voice-activated remote control for that. I ask the Memsahib to do it.

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6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The last examiner did not actually look at the gas, the electrics, the fuel or the engines, he simply sat in the saloon and said "it got a BSS last time and I can see you have a CO alarm so no problem you have a pass".

 

Less than 20 minutes from me opening the marina gate to let him in, to opening the marina gates to let him out.

 

 

Which is just how it should be really. The really experienced examiner knows he needs to be assessing the boater more than the boat, and you passed!!

 

 

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9 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is not a fail it is just an Advisory  (will not pass this check does not mean it will not pass the BSS)

 

3.7.1
Is the electrical system insulated from the hull? 
Check any wiring that can be seen to a suitable device
such as a horn, headlamp, or navigation light for the
presence of a two‐wire insulated cable.
Electrical systems using the hull as a conductor
will not pass this check.
NOTE – an electrical fitment attached to a metal hull or superstructure and having only a single wire
connected indicates the use of the hull as a conductor.

Oh dear I will have to change my alternator, engine, all batteries and the starter motor if the examiner ever finds out that they are connected to the hull.

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5 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Oh dear I will have to change my alternator, engine, all batteries and the starter motor if the examiner ever finds out that they are connected to the hull.

I don't think you read my post properly.

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9 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Which bit?   🤭

The 1st 10 words highlighted in 'bold'.

 

Apart from that, connecting the items you mention to the hull is of course the conventional method.

The BSS are simply advising you that using the hull as the earth return for horn, light etc is not best practice.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 1st 10 words highlighted in 'bold'.

 

Apart from that, connecting the items you mention to the hull is of course the conventional method.

The BSS are simply advising you that using the hull as the earth return for horn, light etc is not best practice.

That's alright then, I can ignore it all? Why is there a distinction for the BSSC? I am well versed in the effects of galvanic corrosion.

When is an advisory to be taken seriously?

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6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Oh dear I will have to change my alternator, engine, all batteries and the starter motor if the examiner ever finds out that they are connected to the hull.

But do they use the hull as a current carrying conductor or are they all fastened to each other with a single connection to the hull?

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14 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

When is an advisory to be taken seriously?

Whenever you wish.

An advisory is simply that - advice that what you are doing is not really in your best interest but no one has any power to make you stop doing it.

 

16 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Why is there a distinction for the BSSC?

I don't understand the question.

 

Under each section (in the BSS) there is a letter "A" or "R".

If an "R" is shown then that is a required feature and if not complied with you get a BSS fail.

If an "A" is shown then you are just advised that there is a 'better' way to do it, but, it is not a BSS fail.

 

One of the problems I have had with a BSS examiners is he 'failed' the boat on things in the "A" sections, resulting in me complaining to the BSS but nothing much seemed to result from it.

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On 24/01/2020 at 13:07, nicknorman said:

The even wiser boater would have a monitoring system that checks current is being taken by the light filament when it’s switched on, and flashes a red warning light at the helm if it isn’t.

 

But what checks that the flashing red warning light is working? 😁

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On 24/01/2020 at 13:07, nicknorman said:

The even wiser boater would have a monitoring system that checks current is being taken by the light filament when it’s switched on, and flashes a red warning light at the helm if it isn’t.

One way to do this is to have a pilot bulb with one end connected to the spot lamp and the other end connected to the bilge pump. It will light if either one is switched on, serving as a warning light for both, but only if the other one is not faulty. So just before entering a tunnel I switch on the pump for a couple of seconds and check that the pilot bulb lights up, and if it does I switch off the pump and switch on the spot lamp. If the bulb illuminates again, all is well.

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