Electric heater - advice please!

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Remember that for every litre of gas you burn 'inside the boat' (no flue) you get 1 litre of water vapour / condensation - as well as potentially 'loads of' CO

 

I think if the BSS examiner sees one on a boat it is a 'fail', so you can see how they view them.

I dont think there is any way you legitimately have a gas cylinder inside the boat. If the OP wants portable heating then he is going to do his own risk assessment against comfort and act accordingly.

[bizzard]

Years ago almost everyone had the gas bottle inside the boat, next to the cooker connected with a short length of rubber tube, only two connections to leak. BUT everyone religiousely turned the bottle off after every use of the cooker or heater. Those were the days when most folk were more practical with more inituitive. I never heard of anyone blowing thereselves up. Stupid Hazardous folkl are likely blow themselves up whatever they've got.  Nor did the cookers have all the fail safe devices.

Edited March 8, 2019 by bizzard

[David Mack]

28 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I dont think there is any way you legitimately have a gas cylinder inside the boat. If the OP wants portable heating then he is going to do his own risk assessment against comfort and act accordingly.

 But it could be a good way of keeping your gas locker warm.

[roland elsdon]

22 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Years ago almost everyone had the gas bottle inside the boat, next to the cooker connected with a short length of rubber tube, only two connections to leak. BUT everyone religiousely turned the bottle off after every use of the cooker or heater. Those were the days when most folk were more practical with more inituitive. I never heard of anyone blowing thereselves up. Stupid Hazardous folkl are likely blow themselves up whatever they've got.  Nor did the cookers have all the fail safe devices.

I remember one blow up at batchworth lock, and also the owners of another wooden boat ( moored on the ches) bailing gas from the boat. Looked strange people in bare feet filling and throwing over the side empty buckets. Their gas bottle had leaked into the boat.

[bizzard]

12 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

I remember one blow up at batchworth lock, and also the owners of another wooden boat ( moored on the ches) bailing gas from the boat. Looked strange people in bare feet filling and throwing over the side empty buckets. Their gas bottle had leaked into the boat.

If you saw anyone walking about looking like Michael Jackson minus eyebrows you new they;d left the stove gas tap on while they hunted around for the matches.

[magictime]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I dont think there is any way you legitimately have a gas cylinder inside the boat. If the OP wants portable heating then he is going to do his own risk assessment against comfort and act accordingly.

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Remember that for every litre of gas you burn 'inside the boat' (no flue) you get 1 litre of water vapour / condensation - as well as potentially 'loads of' CO

 

I think if the BSS examiner sees one on a boat it is a 'fail', so you can see how they view them.

Yes, this is pretty much as I suspected. Not a chance I fancy taking really. So electric heater, spirit stove or four jumpers I think are my options. I wish the weather forecast was looking a bit more spring-like!

[Guest]

16 hours ago, bizzard said:

Its horrid going to bed with cold feet. Sit with feet in a bowl of hot water, wear woolen bobble hats.  Hot water bottle.  Electric blankets only use about 30-50 watts, About £15 on ebay, wrap yourself up in one. Hot soups and rum. Every 10 minutes leap up and jump up and down whilst clapping hands. Drink rum. Get intimate.

Sounds like my first house! We used to go outside for a warm.

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

Years ago almost everyone had the gas bottle inside the boat, next to the cooker connected with a short length of rubber tube, only two connections to leak. BUT everyone religiousely turned the bottle off after every use of the cooker or heater. Those were the days when most folk were more practical with more inituitive. I never heard of anyone blowing thereselves up. Stupid Hazardous folkl are likely blow themselves up whatever they've got.  Nor did the cookers have all the fail safe devices.

Our Dawncraft and Dolphin cruisers were thus. As a kid I used to sleep with my head right next to the gas bottle. 

[Boater Sam]

Outside extreme BBQs, sausages, pigs in blankets, burgers and red wine in the snow.

Eggs on a shovel with bacon for breakfast.

A bag of charcoal a day should see you through.

[magictime]

26 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

Outside extreme BBQs, sausages, pigs in blankets, burgers and red wine in the snow.

Eggs on a shovel with bacon for breakfast.

A bag of charcoal a day should see you through.

Alas, we're vegan and don't drink. Fingers crossed mugs of tea, bowls of soup and veggie stews will have the same benefits!

[Boater Sam]

25 minutes ago, magictime said:

Alas, we're vegan and don't drink. Fingers crossed mugs of tea, bowls of soup and veggie stews will have the same benefits!

Eeh lad, when thar's cold enuff, thar needs some decent packing insides tha!

I'd be dreaming of bacon butties. Had a double serving of Rindsrouladen and fries tonight.

[Machpoint005]

55 minutes ago, magictime said:

Alas, we're vegan and don't drink.

Perhaps that's why you feel the cold so much?   

(less subtle than Sam, I know)

[bizzard]

3 hours ago, catweasel said:

Sounds like my first house! We used to go outside for a warm.

Our Dawncraft and Dolphin cruisers were thus. As a kid I used to sleep with my head right next to the gas bottle. 

We always shouted out,''Shut the door your letting the cold out''.

[magictime]

Starting to lean towards a small oil-filled radiator, on the basis that it should still put out a bit of heat for a while after it gets switched off when we moor up for the day.

 

Any thoughts? Are they a suitable bit of kit especially while cruising, with the movement of the boat? (We've heard tales of such things exploding!)

[Alan de Enfield]

Scientifically speaking there should be no difference in output between a 800w oil filled radiator and an 800w 'blow heater' - but - to me the 'blow heater' always seems to put out much more heat (and spreads it about better) than the oil-filled radiator.

 

We have a couple of the Aldi 400/800/1200 watt fan heaters on the Cat (one in each Hull)

 

 

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, magictime said:

Starting to lean towards a small oil-filled radiator...

I'd be leaning towards a duffel coat and a higher tog duvet! I see your dilemma, and you're unlucky to be in it, but I think you're on a loser with electric heating Magic.    I like your thinking whilst you're faced with having to make the best of a bad job though. Hot water bottles are 'free' heat when you're cruising and will take the chill off the bed - early nights may be in order?

 

[magictime]

54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Scientifically speaking there should be no difference in output between a 800w oil filled radiator and an 800w 'blow heater' - but - to me the 'blow heater' always seems to put out much more heat (and spreads it about better) than the oil-filled radiator.

 

I was just reading a review of one oil filled '800W' oil filled radiator and the reviewer was saying that because it cycles on and off - bringing the oil to temperature, then letting it cool slightly, then heating it again - it only actually puts out 400W. Maybe that's typical? And yes, I'm sure the blow heater would be better if we were going to be in the cabin with it running, but since whatever heater we get is going to be switched off the minute we turn off the engine and come inside for the evening, I figure it would make more sense to have something that stays hot for an hour or two. (Not if it actually does put out half the heat though... why is nothing ever simple?)

 

55 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I'd be leaning towards a duffel coat and a higher tog duvet! I see your dilemma, and you're unlucky to be in it, but I think you're on a loser with electric heating Magic.    I like your thinking whilst you're faced with having to make the best of a bad job though. Hot water bottles are 'free' heat when you're cruising and will take the chill off the bed - early nights may be in order?

 

Yeah, maybe. I'm not so worried about overnight; I warm up pretty quickly once under the covers. It's more the evenings I can see being a bit of an ordeal if we're coming in already cold from a long day's cruising.

[mrsmelly]

23 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

Nope, the ideal thing would be to fix the first one to go duff before waiting til the second one goes tits up!

 

This is why I have two webasto units. One fitted and the other fully serviced and sat in a box to change first sign of anything going wrong with the fitted unit. Then send dodgy one off to my brill webasto bod to service and back in the spares cupboard with all the other must have spares, to include inverter, water pump, prop, drive belts, control cables, etc etc etc. I have found stuff only goes wrong when you dont have a spare so its cheaper to have em in stock lol.

[TheBiscuits]

15 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

no one has mentioned candles in flowerpots

You do know that Dylan Winter is a member here don't you Brian?

[TheBiscuits]

6 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

This is why I have two webasto units. One fitted and the other fully serviced and sat in a box to change first sign of anything going wrong with the fitted unit. Then send dodgy one off to my brill webasto bod to service and back in the spares cupboard with all the other must have spares, to include inverter, water pump, prop, drive belts, control cables, etc etc etc. I have found stuff only goes wrong when you dont have a spare so its cheaper to have em in stock lol.

Yeah, but you are paranoid!

 

You have a spare inverter, two spare propellers and probably a spare engine.  I sometimes wonder if you have a whole 57ft boat inside your 72ft boat as an emergency spare.  

[Boater Sam]

8 hours ago, magictime said:

Starting to lean towards a small oil-filled radiator, on the basis that it should still put out a bit of heat for a while after it gets switched off when we moor up for the day.

 

Any thoughts? Are they a suitable bit of kit especially while cruising, with the movement of the boat? (We've heard tales of such things exploding!)

Will you please understand that no electric heater is going to do any good on a narrowboat unless it is plugged in to a shore line?

You just have not got the generating capacity.

Sorry if my comment to your veganism was offensive, it was not intended to be, to each his own.

 

Heck, I been accused of being subtle, that will never do. So here goes.................................. Get a solid fuel stove!!!!! Then you can burn anything to stay warm, oat packets, peelings, peanut shells............

[Sea Dog]

6 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Will you please understand that no electric heater is going to do any good on a narrowboat unless it is plugged in to a shore line?

He does know that really Sam - he's suffered a double failure of his heating systems (stove and webasto) in short order and is clutching at straws. He needs ideas to make the best of a bad job for a few days whilst he gets somewhere to sort them out. 

[Alan de Enfield]

6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

You have a spare inverter, two spare propellers and probably a spare engine. 

As do I.

But with the cost and accessability of spares when broken down I decided to keep a full spare engine with all ancillaries in my shed, if we broke down I could just call my Son and he could remove the necessary part bring it and we could fix it - very little of the canal system is more than a couple or 3 hours (by car) from the 'Midlands'.

 

On my 'Sea Boats' I do keep 'small' spares on board (pumps, impellors, alternator, starter motor, hoses, cabling, inverter etc etc) but having twin engines tend to reduce the 'problem' anyway.

 

I think the 'mentality' of 'real boaters' is very different to 'ditch-drivers' and the chance of having break downs in inconvenient places is much more likely, and they are more prepared.

[Sea Dog]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think the 'mentality' of 'real boaters' is very different to 'ditch-drivers' and the chance of having break downs in inconvenient places is much more likely, and they are more prepared.

Spot on, I'd suggest,  born out of imperative. You have to work pretty hard to get yourself in serious bother on the cut, but it doesn't take much at sea. Plus, on the cut you can usually walk to a pub and have a pint while you think about your options!

 

[magictime]

7 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Will you please understand that no electric heater is going to do any good on a narrowboat unless it is plugged in to a shore line?

You just have not got the generating capacity.

Sorry if my comment to your veganism was offensive, it was not intended to be, to each his own.

 

Heck, I been accused of being subtle, that will never do. So here goes.................................. Get a solid fuel stove!!!!! Then you can burn anything to stay warm, oat packets, peelings, peanut shells............

No offence was taken Sam, don't worry. And yes, I understand that no electric heater is really going to be adequate to heat a 55ft boat. But if I can spend maybe £20 on a piece of kit that keeps us slightly more comfortable in the evenings for a couple of weeks, that's surely worth considering.

 

I reckon my Refleks stove on one-third power - 1.2kW? - keeps the saloon about 10C warmer than it is outdoors. Is it that far-fetched that an 800W electric heater could keep it 5C warmer?

Oh and yes, if I could click my fingers and swap the Refleks for a solid fuel option, maybe I would - maybe. (The Refleks is expensive to run, but not without its upsides!) But we've got maybe £7000 of work booked in already this year and are on the point of adding double-glazing to that list, so paying for a new stove is not really on the cards.

[roland elsdon]

Its not 800w . Its whatever the heater puts out plus whatever your poor old huffing and puffing alternator puts out in heat, plus whatever your poor engine puts out turning the alternator. 

If you have a boat with the engine in a sensible place you will harvest all that heat. However if it is sitting lonely under a flat back deck then i suspect all those lovely watts will go to global warming without keeping you the middleman  toasty.

fastest way to heat our boat  from icy is flash up the bloody great fan heater in the middle untie the ropes and make waves.