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koukouvagia

Historic waterways pictures

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I've just come across a new site which aims to put online a vast collection of historic watercolours. https://www.watercolourworld.org

I've only had a quick browse, but I've come across many historic images I'd not seen before.  For example, this is a scene I know well near Pitstone.  It dates from the early 19th century and is part of the collection in the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa.

 

Pitstone.JPG.1e1ad69741c2f3c06d1a16a73ac8e28d.JPG

  • Greenie 2

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Is the canal really that wide there, or is the perspective wrong of the boat or canal

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7 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I've just come across a new site which aims to put online a vast collection of historic watercolours. https://www.watercolourworld.org

I've only had a quick browse, but I've come across many historic images I'd not seen before.  For example, this is a scene I know well near Pitstone.  It dates from the early 19th century and is part of the collection in the Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa.

 

Pitstone.JPG.1e1ad69741c2f3c06d1a16a73ac8e28d.JPG

Allowing for a little artistic licence, it gives a vivid picture of what that part of the canal looked like in the days before photography. I wonder how it made its way to the other side of the world.

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22 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Is the canal really that wide there, or is the perspective wrong of the boat or canal

I can't work out which way the viewer is facing.  Because of the position of the towpath, I think we are facing north. In which case the canal is fairly narrow as you approach the bridge. I know where both Pitstone and Cook's Wharves are, but where is or was, Cheddington Wharf?

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34 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I can't work out which way the viewer is facing.  Because of the position of the towpath, I think we are facing north. In which case the canal is fairly narrow as you approach the bridge. I know where both Pitstone and Cook's Wharves are, but where is or was, Cheddington Wharf?

 

Here?

https://goo.gl/maps/qnp6C9QBhKq

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2 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

 I know where both Pitstone and Cook's Wharves are, but where is or was, Cheddington Wharf?

 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:


No, I doubt it would have be at the Brownlow. That's a long way around to Cheddington by road.

I would have assumed it has to be somewhere near Bridge 126, as that is considered "Cheddington Bridge", and the nearest access to Cheddington.

Where the car park now is, as you approach the bridge, possibly, though CanalPlanAC puts it the other side of the bridge where I consider Pitstone Wharf to be, (but seems to have moved Pitstone Wharf to where the Cooks Wharf moorings are! )

 

https://canalplan.eu/place/c3sp

 

EDIT: Reading back I'm not sure where "Cheddington Wharf" has come from?  Is that what the picture is credited as, plaese?

Edited by alan_fincher

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It looks to me more like the bridge below the bottom of the Nag's Head Three (lock 34?)  The towpath there is wide enough to be a  nowadays car access to the bottom lock cottage (the one Vic H had) and there is a farm on the offside at that bridge. 

N

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13 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

EDIT: Reading back I'm not sure where "Cheddington Wharf" has come from?  Is that what the picture is credited as, plaese?

It's under the picture in very faint script.

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2 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

It's under the picture in very faint script.

 

Ah so it is, and not that faint either - should have looked harder!

Looking at OS maps from the 1880s for that area, there is no identified wharf either at what we call Cooks Wharf (which isn't named this on the map) or where Grebe now are at "Pitstone" Wharf.

The only wharf I can see marked as a wharf is at Brownlow, and it isn't named.  (The bridge is named as Ivinghoe Bridge). Not the most obvious place for accessing Cheddington though.

I do agree that visually it looks more like Brownlow than Cooks Wharf.

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I like this one:  

 

https://www.watercolourworld.org/painting/untitled-double-lock-canal-tww00b587

 

 

 

double.PNG

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28 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

Ah so it is, and not that faint either - should have looked harder!

Looking at OS maps from the 1880s for that area, there is no identified wharf either at what we call Cooks Wharf (which isn't named this on the map) or where Grebe now are at "Pitstone" Wharf.

The only wharf I can see marked as a wharf is at Brownlow, and it isn't named.  (The bridge is named as Ivinghoe Bridge). Not the most obvious place for accessing Cheddington though.

I do agree that visually it looks more like Brownlow than Cooks Wharf.

But did that matter Alan? They surely named it after the nearest identifiable place, irrespective of how far away it was by road. If you look at the names of some old railway stations, particularly in rural areas,  they could often be several miles from the place they are named after.

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15 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

But did that matter Alan? They surely named it after the nearest identifiable place, irrespective of how far away it was by road. If you look at the names of some old railway stations, particularly in rural areas,  they could often be several miles from the place they are named after.

 

You've misunderstood what I'm trying to say, I think.

 

Yes it's not unreasonable that the bridge at Brownlow is identified as "Ivinghoe Bridge".  It would be more surprising if it were called "Cheddington Bridge" because it is further from Cheddington and not the nearest bridge to Cheddington, (which is at Cooks Wharf).

 

By your argument the wharf that is shown by "Ivinghoe Bridge" then ought to be "Ivinghoe Wharf" not "Cheddington Wharf".  By the logic of "nearest significant identifiable place" "Cheddington Wharf" ought to be at Cooks Wharf, if you dismiss Cooks Wharf itself as a place name, (which it now is, but is not named on an 11880s map despite having its own pub).

 

:offtopic: Incidentally the road that passes over the bridge at Brownlow, which runs from Ivinghoe to Horton is to this day named "Station Road" at the Ivinghoe end, at least.  There never was a railway in Ivinghoe, and therefore the station it refers to I assume has to be Cheddington - even though the road doesn't go to Cheddington station, which is on a road that has a junction with "Station Road".

Edited by alan_fincher

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3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

You've misunderstood what I'm trying to say, I think.

 

Yes it's not unreasonable that the bridge at Brownlow is identified as "Ivinghoe Bridge".  It would be more surprising if it were called "Cheddington Bridge" because it is further from Cheddington and not the nearest bridge to Cheddington, (which is at Cooks Wharf).

 

By your argument the wharf that is shown by "Ivinghoe Bridge" then ought to be "Ivinghoe Wharf" not "Cheddington Wharf".  By the logic of "nearest significant identifiable place" "Cheddington Wharf" ought to be at Cooks Wharf, if you dismiss Cooks Wharf itself as a place name, (which it now is, but is not named on an 11880s map despite having its own pub).

 

:offtopic: Incidentally the road that passes over the bridge at Brownlow, which runs from Ivinghoe to Horton is to this day named "Station Road" at the Ivinghoe end, at least.  There never was a railway in Ivinghoe, and therefore the station it refers to I assume has to be Cheddington - even though the road doesn't go to Cheddington station, which is on a road that has a junction with "Station Road". 

The B488 (Station Road) from Ivinghoe goes over the canal and on to Cheddington, where it continues to Horton as Horton Road. The road which turns left off at this point is a continuation of Station Road,  passing the entrance to Cheddington Station where, coincidentally, my Grandmother's Father was Station Master.

 

 

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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3 hours ago, Tonka said:

That is so wrong for many reasons 1> How do you close the bottom gate where the boat is going in. 2 > Is that a single lock under the bridge and if it is where are the top gates etc 

It's art innit. Take a butchers - leg it to the pub - then off to the garret to draw what could be remembered.

I like the dog kennel.

Edited by Derek R.

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4 hours ago, Tonka said:

That is so wrong for many reasons 1> How do you close the bottom gate where the boat is going in. 2 > Is that a single lock under the bridge and if it is where are the top gates etc 

I'm sure I've been through a few locks where the end of the beam is well over the edge of the wall.

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3 hours ago, Derek R. said:

It's art innit. Take a butchers - leg it to the pub - then off to the garret to draw what could be remembered.

I like the dog kennel.

Probably the most accurate comment, especially with regard to the picture of Cheddington Wharf. The bridge is carefully drawn and fairly accurate, but the buildings are a mish mash...stone, brick,and one timber framed..... The far horizon does feature distant hills, but there is no indication of the railway, so it was probably sketched before that was built. So it was probably sketched on site, but finished elsewhere. My guess is a view near Cook's Wharf, shame his work excluded the bridge number, it does show a plaque.

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17 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

I like it too but where is it supposed to be? Narrow locks, paired, single bottom gates on opposing sides - doesn't compute.

 

The bridge in the background is impressively high too! 

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One that caught my attention was a water colour painted by David Cox the Elder, that shows a boat building yard in Birmingham along with steam chest it appears.

DCox.jpg

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1 hour ago, buccaneer66 said:

I like this one, Early Morning; Carlisle from the canal.

 

1302357609_UK_TUL_1_1959_121_view1X(1).jpg.8ab3f989ff453574d6e116dbfbc3d02f.jpg

More riches! That view could conceivably be from Port Carlisle, between the two entrance locks (two in succession, not two side by side) the higher of which lifted the canal above the highest tide ever recorded. The two locks had a sharp bend between them, although that would leave the question of why two horses are going hell for leather when the boat (two boats - what's that about?) has only just left the lower lock...

On 15/02/2019 at 11:13, Tim Lewis said:

Looking at this one again, on a big screen rather than the phone, the bywash and side pond look very "Farmers Bridge" but the scenery does not! From memory, Farmers Bridge couldn't be duplicated as there was no room - they were built though existing urban development and the canal always was very tight. 

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The Carlisle painting is another useful image, it was painted by by William Henry Nutter  and is held at the Tullie House Museum, Carlisle; and which appears to show a passenger boat being hauled by horses.

 

This collection of images has one from the British Museum showing the Packet Boat from Paddington to Uxbridge in 1801 and is perhaps more reminiscent of Indian Railways...

 

 

GJCPacket.jpg

Edited by Heartland

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