Diesel Vs Electric

[Jen-in-Wellies]

On 08/02/2019 at 12:35, ditchcrawler said:

If the speed limit on motorways was reduced to 55 mph and policed it would cut pollution drastically and save  loadt of fuel and cash.

If 4mph is a good enough speed limit on canals, then it is good enough for the motorways and other roads too. Bring back the person with the red flag walking in front of every vehicle. Cut pollution, accidents and unemployment all at once!

 

Jen ?

Who, if there is any doubt, is joking. Mostly.

[johnmoly]

On 08/02/2019 at 11:33, mrsmelly said:

Whilst its nice to see how passionate Peter is about leccy cars, in reality in 2019 they are a non starter for any but the few who live with easy charging and dont go anywhere/far. My regular trips vary between 135 miles thats the shortest to my mums and 500 miles and every thing inbetween. I do this easily with a 1k car in comfort. Even if people bought expensive leccy cars that love throwing money away its not possible to do this type of motoring that millions of us do. All these quoted distances that leccy cars can do in reality will be way less. Today for instance its cold overcast with plenty of rain How far in REALITY will a standard leccy car go at motorway speed with headlights, wipers and heater blower on?? you will not find the result from any car manufacturer either. Add in the fact that some cars will do a particular trip with a couple of miles to spare but then what happens when the inevitable accident happens on the motorway and its closed and its cold wet and raining with stop start moving for say two hours or more ( we have all been there ) how long is it before heater, lights and motor simply jack in? what then especialy if there are thousands of us? spare battery somewhere like yer five litre can of petrol? So you can spend huge amounts on a leccy car with an internal combustion engine with it to charge the batteries !!  ? viable all leccy cars have not happened yet and it aint happening anytime soon.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

How long before the AA vans have a big alternator/battery pack and inverter to give ev cars a quick charge to get you to the next services........

Just carry a Honda EU22 genny in the boot

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, peterboat said:

Why not?

 

Come on Peter, I'm sure you already know the answer. ?

 

Peak demand in the UK usually occurs on winters nights. When it is cold the weather tends to be still, so neither solar nor wind generators are effective then.

 

If we want truly reliable renewable energy, then we must do as Denmark has done and invest in wave power.

 

However it costs an order of magnitude moved them wind or solar, so our politicians have gone for the cheaper option.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Come on Peter, I'm sure you already know the answer. ?

 

Peak demand in the UK usually occurs on winters nights. When it is cold the weather tends to be still, so neither solar nor wind generators are effective then.

 

If we want truly reliable renewable energy, then we must do as Denmark has done and invest in wave power.

 

However it costs an order of magnitude moved them wind or solar, so our politicians have gone for the cheaper option.

I think you need to look towards our shores, turbines are appearing all the time, and they dont stop spinning. I sailed half way around the world years ago and in all that distance only had one day with no wind. I was reading that the Danish, French and us are just getting ready to put up the biggest off shore wind farm in the world, Big enough for all of the UKs needs. We are moving on and fossil fuels will figure less and less in the calculations

[cuthound]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I think you need to look towards our shores, turbines are appearing all the time, and they dont stop spinning. I sailed half way around the world years ago and in all that distance only had one day with no wind. I was reading that the Danish, French and us are just getting ready to put up the biggest off shore wind farm in the world, Big enough for all of the UKs needs. We are moving on and fossil fuels will figure less and less in the calculations

 

Yes sea mounted wind turbines generate more electricity than land based ones, but even they don't work in calm weather.

 

Why do you think the electricity companies have TRIAD periods every winter, whereby the pay those with diesel generators handsomely to run them during the three highest peak periods?

 

We are still a long way off being able to generate enough electricity without being reliant on fossil fuels in this country.

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes sea mounted wind turbines generate more electricity than land based ones, but even they don't work in calm weather.

 

Why do you think the electricity companies have TRIAD periods every winter, whereby the pay those with diesel generators handsomely to run them during the three highest peak periods?

 

We are still a long way off being able to generate enough electricity without being reliant on fossil fuels in this country.

Honestly I believe very quickly we will have spare production from wind turbines, the chances of their being no wind around all of our island is very slim, and the turbines will be all around us very soon.

Lets be honest anything has to be better than the continual pollution from fossil fuels.

Edited February 10, 2019 by peterboat

[GUMPY]

Just now, peterboat said:

Honestly I believe very quickly we will have spare production from wind turbines, the chances of their being no wind around all of out island is very slim, and the turbines will be all around us very soon

Do you believe in the tooth fairy as well 

 

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

Just now, Loddon said:

Do you believe in the tooth fairy as well 

 

 

 

 

 

I have seen the film so he must be real ?

[Chewbacka]

9 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes sea mounted wind turbines generate more electricity than land based ones, but even they don't work in calm weather.

 

Why do you think the electricity companies have TRIAD periods every winter, whereby the pay those with diesel generators handsomely to run them during the three highest peak periods?

 

We are still a long way off being able to generate enough electricity without being reliant on fossil fuels in this country.

The problem won’t be having enough turbines for normal weather conditions but what do do when there is no wind.  I think 4 things will all happen

1. Smart meters that have an energy price that is so high during ‘no wind’ days that people will only use essential appliances until generation restarts.

2.  Battery banks to cope for short period surges in demand - eg half time during football.  These will include electric cars as well as large banks.

3. Indirect energy storage, so energy stored during periods of surplus eg pumping water up a mountain or making hydrogen both of which can run turbines for a while.

4. Highly insulated houses using far less energy than today.

 

 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

All of this because human breeding has run amok, and no one has had the courage to do anything about it. 

[Dr Bob]

5 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If 4mph is a good enough speed limit on canals, then it is good enough for the motorways and other roads too. Bring back the person with the red flag walking in front of every vehicle. Cut pollution, accidents and unemployment all at once!
?

 

Wouldnt work.

Pollution would increase because you would run your engine 15 times longer to do your trips with the engine working in an uneconomic mode. Unemployment would rise drastically as everyone would be late for work so get sacked.....and I am bound to have some accidents as I wont get home in time to go to the loo.

[ditchcrawler]

57 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Honestly I believe very quickly we will have spare production from wind turbines, the chances of their being no wind around all of our island is very slim, and the turbines will be all around us very soon.

Lets be honest anything has to be better than the continual pollution from fossil fuels.

O the number of days I have waited for a helicopter and not been able to see the handrail for fog when I worked Offshore. Maybe the whole Country being effected at one time is rear, but you cant even have it happen for one day if you dont want the Country to come to a standstill.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

The problem won’t be having enough turbines for normal weather conditions but what do do when there is no wind.  I think 4 things will all happen

1. Smart meters that have an energy price that is so high during ‘no wind’ days that people will only use essential appliances until generation restarts.

2.  Battery banks to cope for short period surges in demand - eg half time during football.  These will include electric cars as well as large banks.

3. Indirect energy storage, so energy stored during periods of surplus eg pumping water up a mountain or making hydrogen both of which can run turbines for a while.

4. Highly insulated houses using far less energy than today.

 

 

You are providing answers, answers that other boaters should know the answers to, because we are mostly using batteries in our daily lives. Some people just want to see the impossible which disappoints me, its a shame that pollution is global, because if we could make the greatest polluters, suffer the consequences the most, maybe they would think about their action before doing them.

As I have said before I am at an age where I will live to be old, a lot of the gross polluters will live and die a miserable existence  because of their actions, just a shame that the innocents will suffer along with them?

Edited February 10, 2019 by peterboat

[CompairHolman]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

I think you need to look towards our shores, turbines are appearing all the time, and they dont stop spinning. I sailed half way around the world years ago and in all that distance only had one day with no wind. I was reading that the Danish, French and us are just getting ready to put up the biggest off shore wind farm in the world, Big enough for all of the UKs needs. We are moving on and fossil fuels will figure less and less in the calculations

They do stop spinning, they produce about 25 / 30% of their rated capacity. 

 

 

[peterboat]

Just now, CompairHolman said:

They do stop spinning, they produce about 25 / 30% of their rated capacity. 

 

 

On a farm local to me are six of them, the farm belongs to Mick Longford who I have known for 49 years, I have chatted to him about them over a pint a few times, he always has one spinning to supply his farm it was part of the deal. As for the rest well if you dont need the energy they turn them off saves wearing out expensive machinery for nowt!

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

O the number of days I have waited for a helicopter and not been able to see the handrail for fog when I worked Offshore. Maybe the whole Country being effected at one time is rear, but you cant even have it happen for one day if you dont want the Country to come to a standstill.

 

Maybe Peter thinks the remaining working wind turbo as will blow the fog away from the moribund ones ?

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Wouldnt work.

Pollution would increase because you would run your engine 15 times longer to do your trips with the engine working in an uneconomic mode. Unemployment would rise drastically as everyone would be late for work so get sacked.....and I am bound to have some accidents as I wont get home in time to go to the loo.

you're ignoring the side effect.   Because it would no longer be practical to make frequent or long journeys peeps would work from home wherever possible, and live closer to work where it isn't.  Recreational journeys would be vastly reduced.  Shopping and other essential journeys would be better planned to incorporate as much as possible in one trip.

 

fewer miles, less pollution, less congestion, less stress.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Murflynn

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

peeps would work from home wherever possible, and live closer to work where it isn't. 

Those options are available today but folks want to live where they want to live not where they 'need to live' (hence all those living in London because its 'cool'.

[Chewbacka]

When I was very little most lived locally to their work and cars were a luxury not a right.  Unfortunately the planet can not sustain the levels of personal movement we currently have in the West.  Add in the rest of the world all quite reasonably wanting the same and the environmental destruction to mine all the copper, iron, lithium, rare earths etc etc   will be massive.  It is just not sustainable.

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

When I was very little most lived locally to their work and cars were a luxury not a right.  Unfortunately the planet can not sustain the levels of personal movement we currently have in the West.  Add in the rest of the world all quite reasonably wanting the same and the environmental destruction to mine all the copper, iron, lithium, rare earths etc etc   will be massive.  It is just not sustainable.

exactly

[peterboat]

7 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Maybe Peter thinks the remaining working wind turbo as will blow the fog away from the moribund ones ?

I havent seen fog in years! wind blows it all away ?

6 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

When I was very little most lived locally to their work and cars were a luxury not a right.  Unfortunately the planet can not sustain the levels of personal movement we currently have in the West.  Add in the rest of the world all quite reasonably wanting the same and the environmental destruction to mine all the copper, iron, lithium, rare earths etc etc   will be massive.  It is just not sustainable.

What about the environmental destruction to get oil/gas and then use it? very shortly it will lead to the end of life as we know it

[Machpoint005]

12 hours ago, peterboat said:

I havent seen fog in years! wind blows it all away ?

What about the environmental destruction to get oil/gas and then use it? very shortly it will lead to the end of life as we know it

 

There is such a thing as weather that is both windy and foggy - counter-intuitive, I know, but I have expereinced it.

 

The whole point about renewables is that they are making a bigger and bigger contribution to the energy mix. Every MW generated by a turbine is a MW that didn't need generating from a fossil fuel.  AFAIK nobody is saying we will ever get to 100% renewables 100% of the time, but there is no reason at all why we shouldn't be able to get a lot closer.

[cuthound]

12 hours ago, peterboat said:

I havent seen fog in years! wind blows it all away ?

 

 

In that case why not use a wind generator on your boat to charge your new Lion batteries? ?

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

In that case why not use a wind generator on your boat to charge your new Lion batteries? ?

I have 3.6kw of solar why bother with something that would have to be taken down at every bridge ?