Modern battery technology

[matola]

Hi All

 

So it's time for me to replace my leisure batteries as they are no longer holding charge very long. Currently I have 2 x lead acid 120Ah which have been pretty poorly treated over 2 years.

 

I am trying to choose which technology is worth going for in relation to the price.

 

As far as I have read there is :-

 

lead acid

 

Calcium

 

Gel

 

carbon fibre

 

LiFe P4

 

 

I read that the Lithiumferrumphosphate Lifepo4 are way in advance of the others, as they support more than 3000 charge cycles. But a quick look shows me that a 40ah is around £350.

 

I don't read good things of carbon fibre batteries.

 

I am prepared to invest in quality batteries, but guess my limit is around £400 for a pair, unless I can prove to myself any additioanl expenditure is worth it.

 

Could I get your opinions and any links to good info ?

 

Many thanks Matt

[Chris Pink]

Trojan T105

 

Tayna batteries either £240 for 225 Ah or £480 for £450 Ah

[Gibbo]

LiFePO4 are indeed way ahead. However, they are useless for the sort of job required on a boat. They are pernickity about almost everything you do to them and are completely unsuitable. They are even easier to wreck than lead acid.

[BEngo]

Hi All

 

So it's time for me to replace my leisure batteries as they are no longer holding charge very long. Currently I have 2 x lead acid 120Ah which have been pretty poorly treated over 2 years.

 

I<SNIP>

Could I get your opinions and any links to good info ?

 

Many thanks Matt

 

 

If you are still going to treat them pretty poorly then go for the cheapest open lead acids you can get. Even the best will only l;ast a cople of years if not well looked after. Gibbo can wreck batteries in hours (but then he's a professional!)

 

N

[RLWP]

If you are still going to treat them pretty poorly then go for the cheapest open lead acids you can get. Even the best will only l;ast a cople of years if not well looked after. Gibbo can wreck batteries in hours (but then he's a professional!)

 

N

 

I would agree with that. Wrecking two cheap batteries is far less hard on the pocket than wrecking two expensive ones

 

Richard

[Proper Job]

If your going to continue to poorly treat them..... the cheapest ones you can find

 

If you intend to look after them..... Trojan T105's

[bowten]

Yes that's the way I would go.

[dor]

If your budget is £400,I would suggest getting 2 or 3 basic 110AHr batteries which will cost you under £200. Then spend the other £200 on a solar panel and controller, 80 -120W. Your batteries will last much longer and the panel will pay for itself in a year or two.

[Richard10002]

Hi All

 

So it's time for me to replace my leisure batteries as they are no longer holding charge very long. Currently I have 2 x lead acid 120Ah which have been pretty poorly treated over 2 years.

 

 

In what way do you treat them poorly?

 

A small solar panel is good if you Use the boat on a leisure basis, e.g. Weekends on board, then 4 or 5 days not on board, and a few weeks cruising a year. Not much use if you spend a lot more time on board, or if you have a mains charging facility at your mooring.

[Rich]

Trojan T105

 

According to the Trojan website their 6 volt batteries should be charged at 7.4 volts, so presumably 14.8 for two in series.

 

They informed me by email that The batteries will not be fully charged using the absorb voltge of 14.5 volts. Over time, this will cause performance issues since batteries are being undercharged.

 

This seems to be in conflict with usual thoughts on charging voltages.

[George94]

According to the Trojan website their 6 volt batteries should be charged at 7.4 volts, so presumably 14.8 for two in series.

 

They informed me by email that The batteries will not be fully charged using the absorb voltge of 14.5 volts. Over time, this will cause performance issues since batteries are being undercharged.

 

This seems to be in conflict with usual thoughts on charging voltages.

 

A decent charger can be set to charge at 14.8V. However, it does mean you shouldn't mix and match 14.8V batteries with 14.4V batteries.

[Keeping Up]

I seem to have had nothing but problems with batteries that use Calcium technology; next time I will do all I can to avoid them (hopefully by going for cheaper alternatives).

[John V]

I seem to have had nothing but problems with batteries that use Calcium technology; next time I will do all I can to avoid them (hopefully by going for cheaper alternatives).

 

I'm very supprised, mine are 10 years old and I have had no troubles. Could you enlarge on that please

[Keeping Up]

I'm very supprised, mine are 10 years old and I have had no troubles. Could you enlarge on that please

 

I bought a new set of 4, they lasted just 6 weeks. They were replaced under warranty, the replacements lasted even less time. They were also replaced under warranty and the manufacturer (Varta) withdrew that particular model from sale. The replacements are Numax sealed lead-acid-calcium, after 6 weeks of use they were measured at just over 80% capacity after I insisted that the supplier test them for me (under 80% would have triggered an automatic replacement) so I have given them another 8 weeks of use. They are acting as if they are down to about 60% capacity but I am awaiting the supplier's repeat test results at the moment (they went back last week but their tester broke). Without going into too much detail, after daily discharge by about 25% they are being recharged to 14.4 volts until they take virtually no current at that voltage; the importers, the suppliers, and the charging equipment supplier have all said that 14.4 is the correct charging voltage for them.

 

Previous ordinary lead-acid batteries (non-sealed, non-calcium) have always lasted me at least 4 or 5 years

[Speedwheel]

Odyssey PC2250.

I nearly bought two of these as I had the opportunity to get them extremely cheaply (relatively speaking). However they wouldn't fit where the needed to go so that put an end to that.

[dmr]

From lots of reading of technical battery stuff on the internet, it appears that Calcium is added to the battery plates to reduce water loss so that a conventional lead acid battery can be "sealed" and sold as maintenance free. The downside is that calcium reduces the ability of the battery to take a deep discharge.

So....

Calcium is good for a car starter battery as car owners do like maintenance anymore.

but......

Bad for a boat battery.

 

.........Dave

[John V]

I bought a new set of 4, they lasted just 6 weeks. They were replaced under warranty, the replacements lasted even less time. They were also replaced under warranty and the manufacturer (Varta) withdrew that particular model from sale. The replacements are Numax sealed lead-acid-calcium, after 6 weeks of use they were measured at just over 80% capacity after I insisted that the supplier test them for me (under 80% would have triggered an automatic replacement) so I have given them another 8 weeks of use. They are acting as if they are down to about 60% capacity but I am awaiting the supplier's repeat test results at the moment (they went back last week but their tester broke). Without going into too much detail, after daily discharge by about 25% they are being recharged to 14.4 volts until they take virtually no current at that voltage; the importers, the suppliers, and the charging equipment supplier have all said that 14.4 is the correct charging voltage for them.

 

Previous ordinary lead-acid batteries (non-sealed, non-calcium) have always lasted me at least 4 or 5 years

 

Mine are Delkor they were supplied by Watermota as part of an engine deal in 2001 they have spent 5 years as domestic set and 5 years as the engine set, charged at 14.4 by the alternator or when on generator or shore power by a fairly basic 2 stage charger at 14.5 they are still at about 80% and as a liveaboard they do get worked fairly hard. It could be that it is the particular manufacturers that was the problem rather than the actual technology.

 

edited to correct errors

Edited October 26, 2012 by John V

[Gibbo]

From lots of reading of technical battery stuff on the internet, it appears that Calcium is added to the battery plates to reduce water loss so that a conventional lead acid battery can be "sealed" and sold as maintenance free. The downside is that calcium reduces the ability of the battery to take a deep discharge.

So....

Calcium is good for a car starter battery as car owners do like maintenance anymore.

but......

Bad for a boat battery.

 

.........Dave

 

Yes, that's more or less spot on. Lead alone physically falls apart, so they alloy it with another metal to strengthen it. Antimony is common, but that increases gassing (and thus water loss). Some therefore use calcium which doesn't increase gassing the way antimony does. However calcium doesn't stengthen the lead as well as antimony does so they suffer from plate shedding much more severely.

[John V]

Yes, that's more or less spot on. Lead alone physically falls apart, so they alloy it with another metal to strengthen it. Antimony is common, but that increases gassing (and thus water loss). Some therefore use calcium which doesn't increase gassing the way antimony does. However calcium doesn't stengthen the lead as well as antimony does so they suffer from plate shedding much more severely.

 

 

HMMMM you've got me thinking now, so maybe I have been very fortunate with my lead/calciums and should stick to normal lead acid semi-traction in future.

[Gibbo]

HMMMM you've got me thinking now, so maybe I have been very fortunate with my lead/calciums and should stick to normal lead acid semi-traction in future.

 

If they're working for you, you should just carry on doing what you're doing. Don't fix what isn't broken.

[John V]

If they're working for you, you should just carry on doing what you're doing. Don't fix what isn't broken.

 

agree but I have 2 other banks of ordinary lead acids that will probably need replacing fairly soon (anchor winch bank on main boat and domestics on little canal cruiser)

[Shipleymanx]

HiMy son has 4x 110 Numex maintenance free lead acid batteries, they have been chargeing at 15 volts is that okay?

[smileypete]

HiMy son has 4x 110 Numex maintenance free lead acid batteries, they have been chargeing at 15 volts is that okay?

Probably OK for charging from alternator or generator, but possibly a bit risky for unattended shoreline charging.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[by'eck]

According to the Trojan website their 6 volt batteries should be charged at 7.4 volts, so presumably 14.8 for two in series.

 

They informed me by email that The batteries will not be fully charged using the absorb voltge of 14.5 volts. Over time, this will cause performance issues since batteries are being undercharged.

 

This seems to be in conflict with usual thoughts on charging voltages.

 

The lesser charge voltages you presumably refer to are maybe for sealed batteries with a limited electrolyte reservoir or GEL, AGM etc. I've never heard of anything but good coming from absorb charging at 14.8 volts with open lead acid as with T105's, higher still for lead calcium.