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Mad Harold

It really is a buyers market.

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Fancying a change of boat,I perused Apollo Duck,to see what canal boats are available,and was quite surprised to see the number of narrowboats and widebeams that are offered for sale.

There are currently 98 pages with about 10 boats per page and that is just one selling site. There must be over 1000 canal boats for sale at the moment.

The question is: are there over a thousand people in the country looking for a canal boat at any given time?

If buying a boat at the moment,there may be some good deals to be had,but not a good time for selling.

 

 

 

 

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I think 1,000 is about average. 

 

A few years back someone here used to keep records and I think it peaked at 1,200, but that may have just been narrowboats. There was not a great deal of correlation between asking price and numbers for sale either.

 

Don't forget most brokerages also list their stock on the duck so the duck represents nearly the whole market. There is ebay I guess but fee other ways to market a boat than on the duck, or with a broker and therefore on the duck anyway.

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It's pointless trying to rationalise such a tiny market concerning such a small hobby, down that road madness lies.

How many new boats have been made each year for the last X years?

How many scrapped or removed from the network?

How many newcomers to the hobby?

How many have left for whatever reason?

How much footage of empty towpath is left in London?

 

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Most brokers were desperate for new boats 3 months ago. That says it was a seller's market.  Doubt if much has changed since then.

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16 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Most brokers were desperate for new boats 3 months ago. That says it was a seller's market.  Doubt if much has changed since then.

It certainly hasn't on the brokers sites we browse. No sign of  slow down in sales and very little good new stock coming onto the market. 

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2 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Fancying a change of boat,I perused Apollo Duck,to see what canal boats are available,and was quite surprised to see the number of narrowboats and widebeams that are offered for sale.

There are currently 98 pages with about 10 boats per page and that is just one selling site. There must be over 1000 canal boats for sale at the moment.

The question is: are there over a thousand people in the country looking for a canal boat at any given time?

If buying a boat at the moment,there may be some good deals to be had,but not a good time for selling.

 

 

 

 

A good friend of mine decided to sell his boat and asked me to do it for him. I put an advert on the duck monday two weeks ago and got an email off a bloke on the friday and showed him the boat on the sunday. He paid the deposit on it on the monday one week from the advert being placed. He will be picking the boat up before christmas. Not an expensive boat it was though 45k so not the bottom end of the market. The boat is in great condition but it proves good boats sell very very quickly in todays market. Lots of the ones on line that have been there a while are crap that chancers have overpriced.

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33 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

A good friend of mine decided to sell his boat and asked me to do it for him. I put an advert on the duck monday two weeks ago and got an email off a bloke on the friday and showed him the boat on the sunday. He paid the deposit on it on the monday one week from the advert being placed. He will be picking the boat up before christmas. Not an expensive boat it was though 45k so not the bottom end of the market. The boat is in great condition but it proves good boats sell very very quickly in todays market. Lots of the ones on line that have been there a while are crap that chancers have overpriced.

Yes, on reflection I think you are right in that good boats at a sensible price will sell quickly.

I was basing my opinion on a "snapshot" look on the "Duck"and yes, the ones that have been there a while do appear to be rather optimistically priced. 

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Its like ebay ads, loads for sale at a price but its the sold prices that matter.  

Only the good sell fast, some of the junk has been up for sale for ages.

I sold some horrible boats in the past for a good price but those days seem to have past, buyers are getting a bit canny.

I blame this forum.

Having said that there has been some new buyers asking for advice on here recently who still seem to have bought a load of trash with problems.

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3 hours ago, zenataomm said:

It's pointless trying to rationalise such a tiny market concerning such a small hobby, down that road madness lies.

How many new boats have been made each year for the last X years?

How many scrapped or removed from the network?

How many newcomers to the hobby?

How many have left for whatever reason?

How much footage of empty towpath is left in London?

 

I like this poem!  :) 

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6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Its rubbish. Doesn't rhyme. Huh.

It's that newfangled blank verse stuff.

In answer to one of ZT's questions, in my observation very few boats are actually scrapped. I have seen two narrowboats cut up at Fox's but I'm told that this is an unusual occurrence.

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45 minutes ago, Athy said:

It's that newfangled blank verse stuff.

In answer to one of ZT's questions, in my observation very few boats are actually scrapped. I have seen two narrowboats cut up at Fox's but I'm told that this is an unusual occurrence.

True, the just about floating wrecks are in London as white out flats, seen a few go that way recently.

Saw a really bad rusted heap, they had grit blasted it and it turned into a colander,  being patched all over years ago at Worsley, It wasn't worth the welding rods.

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

It's that newfangled blank verse stuff.

In answer to one of ZT's questions, in my observation very few boats are actually scrapped. I have seen two narrowboats cut up at Fox's but I'm told that this is an unusual occurrence.

Always sad to cut up a boat, no matter what the size but a good feeling when one gets saved and goes on to a new life of good service........

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3 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

Always sad to cut up a boat, no matter what the size but a good feeling when one gets saved and goes on to a new life of good service........

Yes it is. But occasionally it's too late. One of the boats at Fox's, so I was told, was so rusted all around the waterline that there was a real danger of the bottom parting company with the top.

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12 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Most brokers were desperate for new boats 3 months ago. That says it was a seller's market.  Doubt if much has changed since then.

They are just like estate agents, even with hundreds of properties for sale they still want more, what they are really after is boats/houses that sell themselves. Location/ builder, fitout/fittings, external appearance,  a perfect interior, in as new condition and at a low price, then they can sit back and take the commission from the queue of viewers.  To be fair when a prospective buyer can't have the ideal they can sometimes show them something else, but probably not on a Friday afternoon or if it's not convenient as they are the only one in the office.

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9 hours ago, Jamm said:

It's pointless trying to rationalise such a tiny market concerning such a small hobby, down that road madness lies.

How many new boats have been made each year for the last X years?

How many scrapped or removed from the network?

How many newcomers to the hobby?

How many have left for whatever reason?

How much footage of empty towpath is left in London?

 

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Its rubbish. Doesn't rhyme. Huh.

It does now  (but it doesn't always scan)

 

A Boating Ballad.

 

In a tiny such market 'tis pointless to try,

with such a small hobby to rationalise.

How many boats in  each year were made

Over  X number of years, just ask the trade.

How many scrapped 

And how many taken,

By CRT, who just  want their cake,  'n'

To eat it, leaving just crumbs.

How many newbies, how many have gone

Some for no reason, and some for a song.

Still as 'tis the season of comfort and joy,

Don't let this put you off my boy - 

You buy a boat and hasten forthwith, to London

For there it is told,

The streets and canals are all

Paved with gold...

But as for the Towpaths, you might as well whistle,

You'll not find a stretch edged with gorse or with thistle,

For all have been colonised, by more

Of your ilk,  who got there before.

 

 

It does now  (but it doesn't scan)

 

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17 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

 I put an advert on the duck monday two weeks ago and got an email off a bloke on the friday and showed him the boat on the sunday. He paid the deposit on it on the monday one week from the advert being placed.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Cheshire cat said:

It is also the case that many boats on ApolloDuck are already sold but not taken down

 

Yes last time I looked there was no automated mechanism on AD to delete sold boats, so the adverts can stay there in perpetuity.  I would expect this to lead to an ever expanding list of listings which doesn't seem to happen, so perhaps there is some mechanism that isn't obvious to a non-advertiser.

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When I as looking it was the case that brokers had lots of boats on the duck but very few for sale in reality. Most were either sold or had an offer on them.  There's a lot of brokers making use of Apollo Duck so the number of boats is bound to be inflated.

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What's the verdict on the market today?  Does anyone know where one might find reliable historical statistics on construction and sales?  British Marine Federation are opaque on that score.  I'm tending to believe that it's still a seller's market since the expressions of interest I've posted on ApolloDuck and to a renowned builder have been simply ignored.  

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32 minutes ago, David Lorimer said:

What's the verdict on the market today?  Does anyone know where one might find reliable historical statistics on construction and sales?  British Marine Federation are opaque on that score.  I'm tending to believe that it's still a seller's market since the expressions of interest I've posted on ApolloDuck and to a renowned builder have been simply ignored.  

The problem with Apolloduck is that brokers dont always see stuff posted on there - it tends to get spammed or not even arrive - you are far better to go directly to the brokers/builders website for contact.

I have been looking at boats on the market for years and it was only a couple of weeks ago  that I discovered by accident that Apolloduck has a Youtube presence. The videos are squashed together photographs off the listings site - but there is no link from the listings to the videos or vice-versa. Apolloduck may have a large market presence - but its  only a matter of time before someone comes along to do it so much better.

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Interesting thought, matty40s.  I'm not sure how ApolloDuck work, ie. do the brokerages copy their offerings to AD for listing or do AD fish the web for, say, Rugby Boats offerings.  What I've found is that to get a feel for what's on offer one needs to keep looking at AD and at all the brokerages and all the little marinas.  I may have the time and patience to do that but, as you say, someone will probably come along to do it so much better.  

 

But my question is really about what the market is doing.  Is it a seller's or a buyer's market, what are the numbers.  Where's the data.  Is everyone really working in the dark?  

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I am not sure there is any 'source' of numbers. Talk to a few brokers and you will soon find out. The consistent comment six months ago was that it was difficult for them to get good boats to sell and what they did get was sold in days. That says it was a sellers market. Not sure if that has changed.

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7 hours ago, David Lorimer said:

Interesting thought, matty40s.  I'm not sure how ApolloDuck work, ie. do the brokerages copy their offerings to AD for listing or do AD fish the web for, say, Rugby Boats offerings.  What I've found is that to get a feel for what's on offer one needs to keep looking at AD and at all the brokerages and all the little marinas.  I may have the time and patience to do that but, as you say, someone will probably come along to do it so much better.  

 

But my question is really about what the market is doing.  Is it a seller's or a buyer's market, what are the numbers.  Where's the data.  Is everyone really working in the dark?  

Corectly priced, good condition boats are still at present selling almost immediately, its still a sellers market.

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