Interesting article about electric vehicles

[WotEver]

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

[cereal tiller]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

Fascinating Reading ,the Diesel needs a rethink and Part re-design , best way forward.

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

Dont be daft. electric cars are fab and Lithium batteries will save the world innitt ? You will tell me that guinness isnt good for me next!!

[MHS]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

The big issue with diesels is the particulates in the area they are driven. If the battery production causes issues, the attitude may be “that’s not in my back yard. “

 

Thats also the issue in recycling all our plastic only to find out it’s sitting in some far flung place waiting for technology to catch up. 

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Dont be daft. electric cars are fab and Lithium batteries will save the world innitt ? You will tell me that guinness isnt good for me next!!

It isn't.It also effects your memory, as earlier you said your Doc advised you to only drink wine

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

It isn't.It also effects your memory, as earlier you said your Doc advised you to only drink wine

I dont always take advice ? Ive been marries twice.

[cuthound]

28 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

 

I'm surprised they didn't mention how few lion batteries are recycled.

 

Copied from my post last week in the Climate Change.

 

At the moment lead acid batteries are much greener than lithium ion batteries, because 98% of Iead acid  batteries are recycled compared to just 2% of lithium ions.

 

This is mainly due to the large number of metals found in lithium ions, making recycling difficult and costly. However potentiallly 95% of lithium ion batteries can be recycled, so maybe it will become economically viable in the future.

 

It also means that lithium ion batteries require more energy to mine the raw materials.

 

http://www.mining.com/close-loop-lithium-ion-battery-recycling/

Edited October 22, 2018 by cuthound
Spillung

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Okay, it’s cars not boats but I found the content interesting. 

https://wonderfulengineering.com/new-study-shows-that-diesel-cars-are-much-cleaner-than-most-electric-vehicles/

It's only really what pro diesel drivers like myself have been saying for years.

 

Once you look at the whole process of electricity generation and storage, electric vehicles are not and never will be the panacea some would have us believe.

[Chewbacka]

But the main reason for electric cars is that you don’t fill the city’s air with NOx and particulates which are shortening people’s lives.  So get diesel out of the cities.  Longer term we need more clean electricity for recharging, but short term and from a global impact, electric cars don’t help, but at least kids that live in the city can breathe clean air, so much better than now..........

[Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

But the main reason for electric cars is that you don’t fill the city’s air with NOx and particulates which are shortening people’s lives.  So get diesel out of the cities.  Longer term we need more clean electricity for recharging, but short term and from a global impact, electric cars don’t help, but at least kids that live in the city can breathe clean air, so much better than now..........

The same people who are moaning about diesel vehicles in the city’s and have electric cars probably have a nice wood burning stove at home ?.    Cars will never be clean, a good amount of the particles are from the tyres.

[Chewbacka]

1 minute ago, Robbo said:

The same people who are moaning about diesel vehicles in the city’s and have electric cars probably have a nice wood burning stove at home ?.    Cars will never be clean, a good amount of the particles are from the tyres.

Thats why the London Mayor is talking of banning woodburners in London as well

[Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Thats why the London Mayor is talking of banning woodburners in London as well

As there is no need for the majority of houses to have any type of wood/multi fuel burners then they should target these more as it will have a bigger impact on local air quality.

[cereal tiller]

22 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

But the main reason for electric cars is that you don’t fill the city’s air with NOx and particulates which are shortening people’s lives.  So get diesel out of the cities.  Longer term we need more clean electricity for recharging, but short term and from a global impact, electric cars don’t help, but at least kids that live in the city can breathe clean air, so much better than now..........

So ,Diesel Electric Hybrids with Inductive charging?

[Bee]

We are still in the denial stage of motoring, we still think we can have our cake and eat it, a car for everyone, and green motoring. Its not just the stuff that goes in the tank its making the steel, the plastics, the several sets of tyres in a cars lifetime, the tar on the roads, the whole exercise just to give us personal mobility and then its scrapped after 10 years or so. Unless there is a quantum leap in how to make and store electricity then it will probably be a dead end.

[IanD]

And in case nobody noticed, the publishers are supported by the German car industry which is heavily in favour of diesel, having poured billions into the technology and little into electric cars.

 

Also they're comparing electric cars where the electricity comes from fossil fuels with diesels, where the whole point in the future is that we'll have to massively cut down on fossil fuel use, and diesels can't run on electricity from renewable sources.

 

In other words, a meaningless biased study...

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

And in case nobody noticed, the publishers are supported by the German car industry which is heavily in favour of diesel, having poured billions into the technology and little into electric cars.

 

Also they're comparing electric cars where the electricity comes from fossil fuels with diesels, where the whole point in the future is that we'll have to massively cut down on fossil fuel use, and diesels can't run on electricity from renewable sources.

 

In other words, a meaningless biased study...

Hmm... 

Burgard said, “I miss a technology-agnostic discussion of available solutions, which also includes the potential of the currently demonized diesel engine. We will need it to achieve the EU’s climate targets.” Several others are not convinced with the research report and have lashed it on Twitter. People stated that the report is biased and is coming from the place from where the funding arrives.

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

And in case nobody noticed, the publishers are supported by the German car industry which is heavily in favour of diesel, having poured billions into the technology and little into electric cars.

 

Also they're comparing electric cars where the electricity comes from fossil fuels with diesels, where the whole point in the future is that we'll have to massively cut down on fossil fuel use, and diesels can't run on electricity from renewable sources.

 

In other words, a meaningless biased study...

Cheers but they won't believe you as they don't like the truth that diesels kill and destroy peoples lives

[Guest]

Hells teeth I must be the devil incarnate.

 

I drive a diesel and we have a multi fuel stove at home........is there any hope for me?

 

I suppose the diesel being Euro 6 compliant and the stove being DEFRA approved.....means I'm doing my bit......?

[stegra]

The more I learn about electric vehicles the more convinced I am that the future lies in hydrogen fuel cells. Refueling time and range are similar to conventional vehicles and the existing infrastructure of fuel stations seems an obvious platform for fuel supply. I don't know much about hydrogen production but understand most comes from oil so the oil producers can be kept happy, depending on the carbon emissions involved. Clearly, the Holy grail of hydrogen production is HHO separation from water using less energy than produced. Even without that, using renewable electricity to split hydrogen from water is a method of storing the energy.

[peterboat]

18 minutes ago, MJG said:

Hells teeth I must be the devil incarnate.

 

I drive a diesel and we have a multi fuel stove at home........is there any hope for me?

 

I suppose the diesel being Euro 6 compliant and the stove being DEFRA approved.....means I'm doing my bit......?

So were those nice VWs,Audi's etc until they got caught out! To be honest Martin your car like your stove serves a purpose, eventually it will be replaced by who knows what? However diesel sales are falling through the floor so the chances of it being diesel are fairly remote arnt they?

[Momac]

 

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

So were those nice VWs,Audi's etc until they got caught out! To be honest Martin your car like your stove serves a purpose, eventually it will be replaced by who knows what? However diesel sales are falling through the floor so the chances of it being diesel are fairly remote arnt they?

Not many years ago diesels was  seen as more eco friendly .

Petrol was  (and still is) seen as  harmful due to the carcinogenic benzines which are exposed to people when refuelling and in exhausts more- so with petrol as the fuel is so much more volatile than diesel. Yet petrol seems these days  to be considered a cleaner fuel.

Electricity isn't really cleaner if carbon fuels are used to generate it.

 

Will diesel prices fall as demand falls?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

So were those nice VWs,Audi's etc until they got caught out! To be honest Martin your car like your stove serves a purpose, eventually it will be replaced by who knows what? However diesel sales are falling through the floor so the chances of it being diesel are fairly remote arnt they?

We can do what we can. It wasn't the fault of VW's customers that the maker of the cars they bought were rigged to cheat emissions tests. (I believe mine actually meets the the new real world driving emissions tests btw). So we buy in good faith, that is all we can in reality do.

 

As for the replacement? I have no idea, a lot will depend on what is available and importantly affordable in 5 or 6 years time.

 

As things stand it will probably be a plug in hybrid as driving to the Italian lakes in a fully electric car is not going to be viable, even five years hence.

 

[dmr]

As I travel round this country on my boat I see more and more building, 'ouses, 'ouses. 'ouses. And lots of these are on greenfield sites some way from the nearest town. No schools, no shops, no pubs, totally dependent on road transport for all the day to day needs of the residents. We need to urgently learn to use less energy and to travel less rather than expecting "new technology" to somehow let us continue our current energy consuming lifestyle.

 

The internal combustion has to go, or at least massively reduce in popularity, but it will take time. The the current decision making is driven by urban dwelling Londoners with a very limited knowledge of life outside London, and a limited technical knowledge too. London is one big polluted traffic jam with good public transport. A self driving electric Taxi would be great for a short evening trip to a local trendy restaurant, not quite as clear cut in the rest of the country.

 

...............Dave

[MtB]

Does the team think gas and oil central heating for houses should also be abandoned in favour of electric heating?

 

Please give your working....

 

 

 

 

 

[Secret Garden]

4 hours ago, Bee said:

We are still in the denial stage of motoring, we still think we can have our cake and eat it, a car for everyone, and green motoring. Its not just the stuff that goes in the tank its making the steel, the plastics, the several sets of tyres in a cars lifetime, the tar on the roads, the whole exercise just to give us personal mobility and then its scrapped after 10 years or so. Unless there is a quantum leap in how to make and store electricity then it will probably be a dead end.

There was a study done years and years ago that calculated an average car (which at that time meant 30 mpg burning petrol and lasting 100,000 miles or 10 years), would take 3 times more energy to manufacture than that vehicle would have burnt.

So if we are truly interested in reducing greenhouse gases the immediate short time answer is to make the vehicles last longer.

And they have, there are 10 year old cars in the scrap yard now that I would have given my left arm for 30 years ago, nothing really wrong with them other than "we the consumer" want new and better and to hell with the environment or worse still, we think we are doing the right thing by replacing "old" cars and going for first diesels to increase the mpg and then silly hybrids because diesels kill everything, and now electrics.

 

The only sensible place that I can see for an EV is in the town/city because of the no point of use pollution, but will that really make any difference when the biggest polluters of all in cities are, building heating, buses, diesel trains, delivery vans and taxis, I doubt it...