Off Side Mooring

[dmr]

If the landowner is in agreement and there is no obstruction problem can I assume its totally legitimate to stop for two weeks on the offside??????? Any thoughts???

and......is it possible to stay longer? I assume the answer to this for a CCer is NO because it breaks the 14 day rule,. though last winter we spent some time on an offside mooring and I noted that some boats overstayed quite a lot. We sort of stayed for five weeks and were not contacted by CaRT. We actually stayed two weeks, went away, "reversed" our journey (this took a week) and returned to the same mooring for another two weeks but I doubt CaRT spotted this so their checking system would have seen us staying for 5 weeks.

 

..............Dave

[Mike Todd]

25 minutes ago, dmr said:

If the landowner is in agreement and there is no obstruction problem can I assume its totally legitimate to stop for two weeks on the offside??????? Any thoughts???

and......is it possible to stay longer? I assume the answer to this for a CCer is NO because it breaks the 14 day rule,. though last winter we spent some time on an offside mooring and I noted that some boats overstayed quite a lot. We sort of stayed for five weeks and were not contacted by CaRT. We actually stayed two weeks, went away, "reversed" our journey (this took a week) and returned to the same mooring for another two weeks but I doubt CaRT spotted this so their checking system would have seen us staying for 5 weeks.

 

..............Dave

As I understand it, the landowner is CaRT in terms of the space where you moor, assuming you dont crane out. The owner of the land against which you moor is significant as you wish to use his land to put in pins or whatever as well as oroviding access, either on foot or by vehicle. Hence you need to have two permissions and, as like a not, to make two payments, although in some circumstances they may be rolled into one. One without the other is not much help! I dont think there is any general permission for 14days offside. If you are wanting to test the boundaries of what is legal you could be in for an expensive time.

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

As I understand it, the landowner is CaRT in terms of the space where you moor, assuming you dont crane out. The owner of the land against which you moor is significant as you wish to use his land to put in pins or whatever as well as oroviding access, either on foot or by vehicle. Hence you need to have two permissions and, as like a not, to make two payments, although in some circumstances they may be rolled into one. One without the other is not much help! I dont think there is any general permission for 14days offside. If you are wanting to test the boundaries of what is legal you could be in for an expensive time.

I'm just wanting to find out some things, I am certainly not looking to push the boundaries or indulge in a court case. But I am talking about short term moorings here so no money should change hands, certainly not from the boater.

 

To help visualise this, as sections of the towpath become the domain of high speed cyclists it might be nice if philanthropic off side landowners created a few short term moorings where boaters could  stop for a few days and sit outside their boat in peace and safety.

 

There are already many many places where a boat can stop offside for a day or two without payment, lots of pubs for example, do the pubs pay money to CaRT?  Of course a few pubs decide its more lucrative to have a long term moorer than customers but that's another subject all together ?

 

.................Dave

[Horace42]

Mooring in the sense that the boat is static in one place comprises two separate components. Land and water.

First the land, for which you need permission of the landowner for access to tie the boat up - maybe also paying a fee for the privilege that is nothing to do with CRT, except if it is CRT land then you pay whatever the published rate is for the mooring.

Second the actual water, where you pay for a full mooring license that permits permanent exclusive use of that stretch of water over the canal bed occupied by the boat - except where the dry land is not owned by CRT,  you pay a fee to CRT - usually charged at half the rate of the full mooring license for the area - a classic end-of-garden mooring.

Otherwise you take pot-luck mooring free of charge anywhere permitted by the cruising license and landowner but limited to 14 days - or whatever the local notice says.

 

 

[dmr]

48 minutes ago, Horace42 said:

Mooring in the sense that the boat is static in one place comprises two separate components. Land and water.

First the land, for which you need permission of the landowner for access to tie the boat up - maybe also paying a fee for the privilege that is nothing to do with CRT, except if it is CRT land then you pay whatever the published rate is for the mooring.

Second the actual water, where you pay for a full mooring license that permits permanent exclusive use of that stretch of water over the canal bed occupied by the boat - except where the dry land is not owned by CRT,  you pay a fee to CRT - usually charged at half the rate of the full mooring license for the area - a classic end-of-garden mooring.

Otherwise you take pot-luck mooring free of charge anywhere permitted by the cruising license and landowner but limited to 14 days - or whatever the local notice says.

 

 

Well yes, my question is trying to clarify this rather than relying on pot luck, and finding out about the case were one wants to moor on the offside with the landowners permission. Just like outside a pub!!. If a pub wants to create a mooring do they need to make an annual payment to CaRT to have that mooring available even though it is not used continually. Any visiting boats will be moored on CaRT water....but  they are already allowed to moor on CaRT waters for up to 14 days free of charge? With hindsight I should have called this thread "how do pub moorings work"?

 

..............Dave

[Gareth E]

It's a good question. I suspect that the end of garden mooring fees are for long term moorings only. If someone who owns land decides to allow boaters to stay up to 14 days out of the goodness of their hearts, or to tempt them to use their nearby business, I'd think CRT would not send the landowner a bill.  

[Tanglewood]

8 hours ago, dmr said:

If a pub wants to create a mooring do they need to make an annual payment to CaRT to have that mooring available even though it is not used continually.

This is an interesting question - there must be lots of pubs in this position - first that springs to mind is the Boathouse at Braunston - perhaps some-one could call in an ask.

 

Of course they only allow mooring to  patrons and limited to overnight, but I would have thought the principle was the same. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Tanglewood
add last sentence

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, Tanglewood said:

This is an interesting question - there must be lots of pubs in this position - first that springs to mind is the Boathouse at Braunston - perhaps some-one could call in an ask.

 

Of course they only allow mooring to  patrons and limited to overnight, but I would have thought the principle was the same. 

On the Witham, the Moorings at The White Horse (Dunston) and The Railway Inn (Woodhall Spa) are C&RT owned but managed 'by the Pub'.

For both - (according to the Landlord) you can stay as long as you like FoC as long as you are using the Pub.

[dmr]

40 minutes ago, Tanglewood said:

This is an interesting question - there must be lots of pubs in this position - first that springs to mind is the Boathouse at Braunston - perhaps some-one could call in an ask.

 

Of course they only allow mooring to  patrons and limited to overnight, but I would have thought the principle was the same. 

We moored outside the Boathouse once and as I was using their mooring I thought I better go in and drink some  beer.

 

Me "Am I allowed to bring the dog in here?"

Manager, "No Dogs, we do food"

Me "That's unusual, almost all canalside pubs take dogs"

Manager "Oh so how does that work?"

Me (I just couldn't resist) "I come in and drink beer, the dog comes in and lies on the floor"

 

....................Dave

[alias]

50 minutes ago, Tanglewood said:

This is an interesting question - there must be lots of pubs in this position - first that springs to mind is the Boathouse at Braunston - perhaps some-one could call in an ask.

One end of the Boathouse mooring has been used as a long term mooring for some time.  The remaining length is marked as 4 hours/overnight (if you can find the sign behind the vegetation) but frequently has the same boat on it when I pass.

[MtB]

9 hours ago, dmr said:

Well yes, my question is trying to clarify this rather than relying on pot luck, and finding out about the case were one wants to moor on the offside with the landowners permission. Just like outside a pub!!. If a pub wants to create a mooring do they need to make an annual payment to CaRT to have that mooring available even though it is not used continually. Any visiting boats will be moored on CaRT water....but  they are already allowed to moor on CaRT waters for up to 14 days free of charge? With hindsight I should have called this thread "how do pub moorings work"?

 

..............Dave

 

I know of a case of a bloke who bought a pub with offside canal frontage used as moorings for visitors. He was the type of bloke who doesn't read letters. 

 

He bought a boat which he then kept permanently on his pub mooring whilst ignoring the letters from CRT. I dunno exactly what the letters said but his attitude was 'nah they'll never do that', and in the bin they went. Then one day CRT turned up with an enormous feckorf crane on the opposite bank, and proceeded to snaffle his boat.

 

Dunno if that helps....

[dmr]

Sounds like he got exactly what he deserves. If the boat is not paying a mooring fee to CaRT then I reckon the 14 day rule will still apply. I suppose the difficult one is when a boater has a long term mooring elsewhere but prefers to live at the pub.

 

Its always rather nice to moor right outside a pub and always sad when pub moorings turn into long term moorings, and I've seen this happen quite a bit.

The BlueBell (North Stratford) is fully long term moorers.

Rock of Gibralter (Oxford) has had long term moorers, not sure now (maybe this is the one you refer to).

Black Horse (Devizes K&A) has had winter moorers.

Barge (Seend K&A) has had a winter moorer in the past.

 

.............Dave

[Arthur Marshall]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

Sounds like he got exactly what he deserves. If the boat is not paying a mooring fee to CaRT then I reckon the 14 day rule will still apply. I suppose the difficult one is when a boater has a long term mooring elsewhere but prefers to live at the pub.

 

.............Dave

Referring back to Nigel's informed comment on mooring, the ONLY people with a right to 14 days stay are continuous cruisers.  The rest of us with home moorings have no rights at all in law, but in general are allowed the same stay length by the authority.  So the pub owner with a boat may well have a home mooring elsewhere, but he still can't choose to live outside his pub, even though the 14 day rule does't technically apply to home moorers.

[Jess--]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Referring back to Nigel's informed comment on mooring, the ONLY people with a right to 14 days stay are continuous cruisers.  The rest of us with home moorings have no rights at all in law, but in general are allowed the same stay length by the authority.  So the pub owner with a boat may well have a home mooring elsewhere, but he still can't choose to live outside his pub, even though the 14 day rule does't technically apply to home moorers.

with regard to the above I wonder if (when applying the law) the only places where a boat with a home mooring can moor (other than it's home mooring) would be signed visitor moorings where the 48 hours / X days restriction could be taken as permission

[cuthound]

47 minutes ago, dmr said:

Sounds like he got exactly what he deserves. If the boat is not paying a mooring fee to CaRT then I reckon the 14 day rule will still apply. I suppose the difficult one is when a boater has a long term mooring elsewhere but prefers to live at the pub.

 

Its always rather nice to moor right outside a pub and always sad when pub moorings turn into long term moorings, and I've seen this happen quite a bit.

The BlueBell (North Stratford) is fully long term moorers.

Rock of Gibralter (Oxford) has had long term moorers, not sure now (maybe this is the one you refer to).

Black Horse (Devizes K&A) has had winter moorers.

Barge (Seend K&A) has had a winter moorer in the past.

 

.............Dave

 

The Gate at Amington on the Coventry Canal lets it's moorings to a hotel boat during the winter, and retains them for customers from Easter until the end of September. Seems like a good compromise to me.

[Boater Sam]

With a horse boat you had to moor on the off side always.

[Arthur Marshall]

49 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

with regard to the above I wonder if (when applying the law) the only places where a boat with a home mooring can moor (other than it's home mooring) would be signed visitor moorings where the 48 hours / X days restriction could be taken as permission

I don't think so - the 48 hour markings are more of a restriction of the general 14 day that's allowed, more or less by custom and practice by now I should think. 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

With a horse boat you had to moor on the off side always.

 

Intriguing. Why was that then?

 

How did the horse get over there?

[Boater Sam]

Other passing boat's lines.

The horse didn't.

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Referring back to Nigel's informed comment on mooring, the ONLY people with a right to 14 days stay are continuous cruisers.  The rest of us with home moorings have no rights at all in law, but in general are allowed the same stay length by the authority.  So the pub owner with a boat may well have a home mooring elsewhere, but he still can't choose to live outside his pub, even though the 14 day rule does't technically apply to home moorers.

I suspect mooring permission for upto 14days is a bit like cycles which used to have to have specific permission (ie a crt bike licence) crt have given general permission to all.  So all boaters can moor so long as they abide by the t&c including (especially) the 14day limit.

[Graham Davis]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

With a horse boat you had to moor on the off side always.

Really?
I'd love to see your evidence for that, since everything I have seen implies they just moored on the towpath side, unless loading at an off-side facility.

[Robbo]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

Other passing boat's lines.

The horse didn't.

Doesn’t make sense.   The tow line just goes over the moored boat.  Easy.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Robbo

[Chewbacka]

13 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Doesn’t make sense.   The tow line just goes over the moored boat.  Easy.

Same as passing a boat going in the opposite direction 

[Robbo]

Just now, Chewbacka said:

Same as passing a boat going in the opposite direction 

Well you do have the addition of another horse, but that just means the outer boat goes on the outside of the towpath.

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Doesn’t make sense.   The tow line just goes over the moored boat.  Easy.

No, it would get snagged on the satellite dish.