The cost of fitting out a 65' x 12' Widebeam shell

[mrsmelly]

35 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

Do not buy a boat as a liveaboard because it looks like a cheap alternative to living in a house, or an adventure.

This is very good advice. To put very simply is not a cheap alternative by any means. It is though an adventure, especialy when frozen in a foot thick ice with an empty water tank and a full bog tank with the nearest facilities a day away on foot.

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I left this thread yesterday evening and at that time it seemed to be very constructive. Overnight it's descended - somewhat- under the control of that well known, but anonymous poster Fred Drift....

Back on track -

The strength of 'our' canal system is that there is an huge cruising range BUT you are limited to 7' (well 6'10") by 60ft long.

 A 12ft boat works - sizewise reasonably well on the Thames, Medway (?). The northern rivers - of which I have no real knowledge have their own challenges.

My own biased opinion is for genuine cruising up and down you're stuck with the Thames - and even with it's long usable length it could get quite boring.

You say no fitted cupboards - so what about long clothing. You'll waste a lot of otherwise unusable space by not having some fitted cupboards. See what Blackrose has done with some Ikea (I think) cupboards - he's posted some impressive photos.

 

I'm going to get attacked on the above -hey ho.....  

I'll be honest, I have a number of priorities, likes and dislikes, pros and cons. Cupboards don't get a mention.  

Edited August 24, 2018 by LadyG

[LadyG]

9 hours ago, cereal tiller said:

A Cat Swinger is some one who likes plenty of Space ,as in Room to Swing a Cat.......?

I know, I was being ironic :), or is it sardonic?

nice music.  Spoiler alert: it gets boring after 40 seconds

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by LadyG

[Athy]

34 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yeah well, just buy what you want, fit it out as you want, be happy, live long and prosper, let us know how you get on. but don't bother asking for any more advice.

I think that Dee was simply editing your advice to remove the "or an adventure" bit, and I can sympathise with her view. After all, moving into any new home should be an adventure.

[LadyG]

46 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think that Dee was simply editing your advice to remove the "or an adventure" bit, and I can sympathise with her view. After all, moving into any new home should be an adventure.

Oh well, and I thought she was being a right PIA,  sorry about that

I must think about houses in a different way to most folks .............. its a nice safe thing to have a job, a home, a bed to sleep in etc,  not to have to worry about the fuel bills, grocery bills etc etc.

The adventurous part of me is about climbing mountains, riding racehorses, and sailing oceans 

I want to live on a boat so I am able to move around the country, live in the countryside and visit lots of nice places without the hassle of "travel"

Edited August 24, 2018 by LadyG

[dmr]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

71'6" x 7' is OK on the Rochdale - even drawing 3 ft. 12ft would be tight passing other boats in some places. Although originally 14ft, a number of locks have come in enough that 12 probably is the maximum (and narrow boats sharing locks have to separate out at a few locks, which upsets the water levels).

 

Anything over 7 ft beam requires the floating towpath under the M62 to be moved. And anything over 60 ft long needs to use the lower pair of bottom gates at Tuel Lane.  Always fun, as they are rarely used, so always open and never wetted. They leak like the proverbial sieve when pressed into service.   I have wondered whether if I turned up in a boat less than about 15 ft long whether they would let me use the lock between the two sets of lower gates - the lock would be almost the same in 3 dimensions - length, width, depth! 

We will need to go through Tuel lane in the next month or so to get some diesel at Sowerby so I will give CaRT plenty of notice. I would rather have leaky bottom gates than leaky top gates anyday ?

 

One of the lockkeepers helping us up here said that a 12 foot widebeam had gone down to Manchester quite recently and got stuck just about everywhere. I reckon 3 foot deep would be seriously hard work, especially Rochdale to Manchester. Was that you with the old wooden pair week before last?????

 

I like the idea of the short lock. Actually a lot of the locks here have the recess for a second "short"  set of gates but these don't go all the way to the top. I am still puzzling over this.

 

..................Dave

[David Mack]

32 minutes ago, dmr said:

 ?

I reckon 3 foot deep would be seriously hard work, especially Rochdale to Manchester. Was that you with the old wooden pair week before last?????

 

I like the idea of the short lock. Actually a lot of the locks here have the recess for a second "short"  set of gates but these don't go all the way to the top. I am still puzzling over this.

 

Last did it on Fulbourne in 2012. Scraped the bottom in a few places but nothing too serious, apart from getting hard stuck in Failsworth where we grounded on the remains of one of the keep left/right signs in that bit that was only re-excavated in the middle.

 

I think the Rochdale Canal Company abandoned the upper bottom gates quite early in the canal's life, so at some locks they rebuilt the upper parts of the chamber walls with a straight edge to stop the unwary stepping into a void.

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Last did it on Fulbourne in 2012. Scraped the bottom in a few places but nothing too serious, apart from getting hard stuck in Failsworth where we grounded on the remains of one of the keep left/right signs in that bit that was only re-excavated in the middle.

 

I think the Rochdale Canal Company abandoned the upper bottom gates quite early in the canal's life, so at some locks they rebuilt the upper parts of the chamber walls with a straight edge to stop the unwary stepping into a void.

I suspect the Rochdale has gone downhill since 2012 due to people throwing stuff in faster than CaRT and boaters can take it out, and to general lack of boats. We were about 28 inches deep (very full water tank to get the back up) and between Manchester and the top of Rochdale had maybe 5 quite serious "getting stucks" and innumerable minor touchings of the bottom (or stuff on the bottom).

 

.................Dave

[dmr]

But to get back on topic, I suggest the op takes a look at the Rochdale summit, the end of the Calden canal, and the upper peak forest before deciding to get a big fat boat.

 

...............Dave

[peterboat]

I have a 12 x 57 widebeam with wheelhouse on Northern waters, I really dont have many issues cruising on our waters up here. 65 foot would knock out some places straight away!

Fit out wise widebeams are easier to do than narrow you have more room to work in and you dont have to buy dolls house furniture ? you can buy the real stuff that fits houses and that makes it a much cheaper job [I have done both narrow and wide refits].

My advice is that down south you will not be popular with your size boat up here they are the norm, So if you want to have a go, but make sure that the heating is the first thing you sort out, winter is only a short way away

[Dee Kay]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

I have a 12 x 57 widebeam with wheelhouse on Northern waters, I really dont have many issues cruising on our waters up here. 65 foot would knock out some places straight away!

Fit out wise widebeams are easier to do than narrow you have more room to work in and you dont have to buy dolls house furniture ? you can buy the real stuff that fits houses and that makes it a much cheaper job [I have done both narrow and wide refits].

My advice is that down south you will not be popular with your size boat up here they are the norm, So if you want to have a go, but make sure that the heating is the first thing you sort out, winter is only a short way away

Noted. Thank you very much. Some people here have been exceptionally helpful. I'm grateful that you've taken time to reply to my query....

[peterboat]

23 minutes ago, Dee Kay said:

Noted. Thank you very much. Some people here have been exceptionally helpful. I'm grateful that you've taken time to reply to my query....

Its easier to help than hinder ? as soon as you mention widebeam on here you have a bunch of people that just cant wait to give you the benefit of their dislike of widebeams!! I have in my beastie a Rayburn Royal it space heats, cooks and heats hot water as well as a couple of radiators. They are cheap [look at ebay to see how cheap!] My lounge/bedroom is all household furniture, easy and cheap to get Kitchen all from my mate Lesley at Howdons again not expensive and good quality. Bathroom all full size and cheap, Engine wise secondhand are available [ I am selling mine to go electric drive] so look around and something will appear , good luck and enjoy the project and the lifestyle

[rusty69]

41 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I have a 12 x 57 widebeam

Hey Peterboat. The OP is after a 65'x12',yours is 12'x57' is that 12 ft long x 57 foot wide? 

[Dee Kay]

24 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Its easier to help than hinder ? as soon as you mention widebeam on here you have a bunch of people that just cant wait to give you the benefit of their dislike of widebeams!! I have in my beastie a Rayburn Royal it space heats, cooks and heats hot water as well as a couple of radiators. They are cheap [look at ebay to see how cheap!] My lounge/bedroom is all household furniture, easy and cheap to get Kitchen all from my mate Lesley at Howdons again not expensive and good quality. Bathroom all full size and cheap, Engine wise secondhand are available [ I am selling mine to go electric drive] so look around and something will appear , good luck and enjoy the project and the lifestyle

Sounds brilliant. I'm a big fan of comfort...Rayburn sounds like a good idea to me...we had thought about a reconditioned engine to save a few bob...and getting 'normal' bathroom and kitchen gear to install...as you say...household furniture will do nicely...rather than those built in caravan style interiors that seem to be so popular...the shell in question has been sold...we decided to pass on it as there were issues related to its provenance that didn't stack up. But we'll carry on looking...and find the right thing...for us. Thanks for your good wishes...

Edited August 24, 2018 by Dee Kay

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Hey Peterboat. The OP is after a 65'x12',yours is 12'x57' is that 12 ft long x 57 foot wide? 

Ideal for mooring in short spaces

[Iain_S]

2 hours ago, RLWP said:

Ideal for mooring in short spaces

But only on wide canals

[blackrose]

15 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I've seen the occasional one on the Thames and they really handle like a pig 10ft are a bit better and look better as well

 

How many 12ft widebeams have you actually handled? Mine handles better than most of the narrowboats I've steered. I've taken it down the thames through London and into Limehouse several times. Most narrowboaters are too scared to attempt that on their boats. And crossing the Bristol Channel was a breeze.... I guess looks are a matter of personal taste but I don't think it looks too bad. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by blackrose

[blackrose]

5 hours ago, peterboat said:

Engine wise secondhand are available [ I am selling mine to go electric drive] so look around and something will appear 

I've never really understood what the advantage of electric or hydraulic drive is? You still need a generator and surely you lose efficiency when you convert power to the final drive? You can position the generator anywhere you want and I suppose its a bit quieter, but it's that it? 

[LadyG]

16 hours ago, Dee Kay said:

"Not enough room to  swing a cat..." ..................

followed by a lot of comments from OP which I refuse to repeat on this wonderful forum

I previously suggested some nice practical fitting out Youtube vlogs. I am not intending to be negative, but now you mention it, with no DIY skills,  no  contacts, and no boating background, you are going to be at this fitting out business for a very long time. Good tradesmen have full books, unlikely they will have a few weeks free when you want them. Imho there are a number of things where it is best to avoid the absolute cheapest option, and that probably includes the engine, the toilet , and in my own personal view, the shower cubicle [but at least these are often on offer]. You will need to decide between no independent central heating system, an Eberspacher/Webasto type, or a Hurricane type. In order to identify the problems of buying the cheapest engine/shower/laminate flooring/pumps etc, you will have to do a lot of research, which is one reason I suggested you need to work up your knowledge base before you rush out buy anything, eg a boat without the essential paperwork, fortunately you managed to find out about that particular regulation. The reason I was prompted to say anything was your comment "I can see that they [widebeams] could be seen as self indulgent...especially when it comes to flights of locks where it would be much better to be able to put two boats at a time in..." I am pretty sure this is not why Widebeams are unpopular in some quarters., I may be wrong. PS I have tried not to use grammatical gadgets this time.

Edited August 25, 2018 by LadyG

[Robbo]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

I've never really understood what the advantage of electric or hydraulic drive is? You still need a generator and surely you lose efficiency when you convert power to the final drive? You can position the generator anywhere you want and I suppose its a bit quieter, but it's that it? 

Don’t underestimate piece and quiet tho.

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Don’t underestimate piece and quiet tho.

 

Yes, impressively quiet. 

 

Except you have to run the Diesel engine for hours after mooring up to charge the batts instead. Very peaceful, not !! 

[peterboat]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

I've never really understood what the advantage of electric or hydraulic drive is? You still need a generator and surely you lose efficiency when you convert power to the final drive? You can position the generator anywhere you want and I suppose its a bit quieter, but it's that it? 

Solar 3kw on the roof for the electric drive, 600watts for leisure with a 24 volt whispergen winter time when not cruising the solar used for drive can be used for leisure. I long ago got fed up with cruising over 2-3 hours so on sunny days the motor should run from the solar without touching the batteries

[OldGoat]

Quote

 

Thoughts on electric / hydraulic drives -

Methinks there are advantages in these cases:-

A quieter drive if the engine is cocooned which for a conventional NB style hull means it is mounted remotely

Where the hull type makes more practical use of space to have the engine remote from the propeller or even nearby - for example some Broads cruisers.

 

Otherwise I can't see any particular  advantage. If quietness is your aim (and why not) How about a freshwater / heat exchanger cooled in a conventional setup, but well sound insulated. The lower operating temperatures make cocooning more practical and there's no hot exhaust to deal with. That works well in the larger 'plastic' cruisers.