BCN Moorons

[nicknorman]

6 hours ago, JamesWoolcock said:

Not aimed at either of you, but it's not how long you've been boating, but how much have learnt!

I know folks who have been boating that long but show all the signs of not having learnt much passed their first year or so.

But still, they can be nice people and that's what we want.

James

Agreed. Look at Tim and Pru! Anyway, ‘tis just banter between me and MtB. That said, in the particular context which was about the culture and etiquette prevalent decades ago, you had to be there to have experienced it.

[X Alan W]

Is'nt canal boating suffering the modern trend that seems to be taking over mankind ? lack of consideration for others, either unthinking generally or a growing trend of"Sod you Jack I'm alright" seem s to be taking over all activities Of course not everyone   but a growing number

[Captain Pegg]

24 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Is'nt canal boating suffering the modern trend that seems to be taking over mankind ? lack of consideration for others, either unthinking generally or a growing trend of"Sod you Jack I'm alright" seem s to be taking over all activities Of course not everyone   but a growing number

No.

It's just two boats moored a bit inconsiderately having probably made a conscious decision to move off the main lane to the lesser used route having noted that very few boats come down the main line and turn right to go up Spon Lane locks.

It's only become an issue because the one boat that has done that is crewed by someone who likes to take verbal online shots at fellow boaters by way of sport and is fueled by folk who don't approve of the way of life of the boaters concerned.

JP

[nicknorman]

14 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

No.

It's just two boats moored a bit inconsiderately having probably made a conscious decision to move off the main lane to the lesser used route having noted that very few boats come down the main line and turn right to go up Spon Lane locks.

It's only become an issue because the one boat that has done that is crewed by someone who likes to take verbal online shots at fellow boaters by way of sport and is fueled by folk who don't approve of the way of life of the boaters concerned.

JP

I am only surprised that it’s taken you so long to pop up with your usual sniping. You are the sort of new boater who takes up boating and then starts telling everyone else what they should think. If you really think that mooring on a junction on a lock landing is to be condoned then I dislike your new era of boating. And you.

And the ironic part is you like to play at old fashioned boating! But I can assure you that mooring on a junction on a lock landing has not been acceptable during the history of the canals and only will be if it becomes infested with people like you, for whom taking pot shots at others is the most important thing.

48 minutes ago, X Alan W said:

Is'nt canal boating suffering the modern trend that seems to be taking over mankind ? lack of consideration for others, either unthinking generally or a growing trend of"Sod you Jack I'm alright" seem s to be taking over all activities Of course not everyone   but a growing number

Unfortunately yes. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by nicknorman

[billS]

8 hours ago, JamesWoolcock said:

I know folks who have been boating that long but show all the signs of not having learnt much passed their first year or so.

 

A long standing co-worker was once described by his manager as having two years experience, ten times.

I have used that as a retort to an incompetent boater who claimed that his ill judged manoeuvre was correct as he had 20 years of boating experience.

[Captain Pegg]

38 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I am only surprised that it’s taken you so long to pop up with your usual sniping. You are the sort of new boater who takes up boating and then starts telling everyone else what they should think. If you really think that mooring on a junction on a lock landing is to be condoned then I dislike your new era of boating. And you.

And the ironic part is you like to play at old fashioned boating! But I can assure you that mooring on a junction on a lock landing has not been acceptable during the history of the canals and only will be if it becomes infested with people like you, for whom taking pot shots at others is the most important thing.

Unfortunately yes. 

My way of boating is to get on with those I meet. That doesn't mean I condone their activities. I have no problem with this instance being reported to CRT as it is their job to manage compliance with the law. I also do advise people on appropriate practice when out boating. There are means more effective than name calling on social media.

Not quite sure what the reference about being a 'new boater' or that last paragraph is about; or indeed the relevance of it. Suffice to say though that historically working boats routinely used practice that wouldn't wash on today's canals.

JP

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Captain Pegg

[nicknorman]

28 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

My way of boating is to get on with those I meet. That doesn't mean I condone their activities. I have no problem with this instance being reported to CRT as it is their job to manage compliance with the law. I also do advise people on appropriate practice when out boating. There are means more effective than name calling on social media.

Not quite sure what the reference about being a 'new boater' or that last paragraph is about; or indeed the relevance of it. Suffice to say though that historically working boats routinely used practice that wouldn't wash on today's canals.

JP

 

My way of boating is also to get on with those I meet. After all, I even managed to get on with you when we met, although with hindsight I rather wish I hadn’t. But I don’t want to get on with people who are blatantly taking the piss. It’s called peer pressure.

Your approach is what I call the “smiling knife” - be all sweetness and light in person, then as soon as their back is turned, shop them to the authorities. I can accept that this is your modus operandi and that you think it is the right way to behave, but in my opinion it is an unpleasant, two-faced and dishonourable way to carry on.

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

My way of boating is also to get on with those I meet. After all, I even managed to get on with you when we met, although with hindsight I rather wish I hadn’t. But I don’t want to get on with people who are blatantly taking the piss. It’s called peer pressure.

Your approach is what I call the “smiling knife” - be all sweetness and light in person, then as soon as their back is turned, shop them to the authorities. I can accept that this is your modus operandi and that you think it is the right way to behave, but in my opinion it is an unpleasant, two-faced and dishonourable way to carry on.

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

Now now Nick, there's no need to be nasty.

If you want to behave like that I'm told there is another canal forum (really?) where such behaviour is the norm.

(See what I did there?)

[nicknorman]

Just now, Victor Vectis said:

Now now Nick, there's no need to be nasty.

If you want to behave like that I'm told there is another canal forum (really?) where such behaviour is the norm.

(See what I did there?)

He started it. You shouldn’t start an attack if you can’t take the repercussions. You and he both like to snipe at me whenever you see an opportunity. You I understand - you think it your chivalrous duty to Jill because I joined another forum on which she was being insulted and you feel that by being a member of a forum, one automatically condones everything that is being said on it. Which is strange, but I guess it takes all sorts. JP I don’t understand, I have never launched an attack on him and yet he seeks any opportunity to insult me. Even though when I met him he seemed pleasant enough, I am a notoriously bad judge of character.

[Victor Vectis]

What a very strange post.

I'm afraid I have better things to do than to respond, apart from suggesting that someone seems to have got out of his bed on the wrong side this morning.

[ditchcrawler]

On 25/10/2017 at 10:03, BWM said:

With trading boats, that seems short sighted in the sense that upsetting boaters with thoughtless behaviour will only diminish their customer base. 

Do they sell to boaters, The only thing I buy from trade boats is diesel and cheese, Its the land based people who buy their goods

 

[MoominPapa]

19 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

He started it. You shouldn’t start an attack if you can’t take the repercussions. You and he both like to snipe at me whenever you see an opportunity. You I understand - you think it your chivalrous duty to Jill because I joined another forum on which she was being insulted and you feel that by being a member of a forum, one automatically condones everything that is being said on it. Which is strange, but I guess it takes all sorts. JP I don’t understand, I have never launched an attack on him and yet he seeks any opportunity to insult me. Even though when I met him he seemed pleasant enough, I am a notoriously bad judge of character.

Nick, as someone with absolutely no axe to grind in this argument, can I gently point out that you're being a bit of an arse? If you want to continue this pointless argument, please take it to PMs/email so the rest of us don't have to witness it.

 

MP.

 

[nicknorman]

17 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Nick, as someone with absolutely no axe to grind in this argument, can I gently point out that you're being a bit of an arse? If you want to continue this pointless argument, please take it to PMs/email so the rest of us don't have to witness it.

 

MP.

 

Yes it is tedious watching other people bickering, sorry about that. If you had an entourage of snipers who like to follow you round the forum dripping on the occasional insult, you might though think slightly differently. Perhaps you would consider that this thread was perfectly pleasant, slightly humorous and vaguely interesting until the moment of JP’s snipe, before you put all the blame on me.

Edited October 26, 2017 by nicknorman

[Captain Pegg]

28 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

He started it. You shouldn’t start an attack if you can’t take the repercussions. You and he both like to snipe at me whenever you see an opportunity. You I understand - you think it your chivalrous duty to Jill because I joined another forum on which she was being insulted and you feel that by being a member of a forum, one automatically condones everything that is being said on it. Which is strange, but I guess it takes all sorts. JP I don’t understand, I have never launched an attack on him and yet he seeks any opportunity to insult me. Even though when I met him he seemed pleasant enough, I am a notoriously bad judge of character.

I didn't insult you Nick. I offer your posting history in support of the observation I made in reply to another poster. I suggest the alternative explanations of why you choose to make threads of your altercations with others is entirely less flattering.

JP

[MtB]

On 26/10/2017 at 11:03, nicknorman said:

Yes it is tedious watching other people bickering, sorry about that. If you had an entourage of snipers who like to follow you round the forum dripping on the occasional insult, you might though think slightly differently. Perhaps you would consider that this thread was perfectly pleasant, slightly humorous and vaguely interesting until the moment of JP’s snipe, before you put all the blame on me.

 

Nick you're being over-sensitive. Far better to refuse loftily to even engage with snipers and insulters. Besides I hardly notice the snipes you find so troubling, and when I see them, it affects my opinion of the sniper rather than their target usually.

If you want to squabble, go to thunderbolt. If you don't like posts here, report them. That's the etiquette now innt?

[Athy]

So far, though there have been fairly frank exchanges of views, no one has thrown personal insults around, but there's a possibility that someone may soon overstep that line. Please don't.

[nicknorman]

35 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Nick you're being over-sensitive. Far better to refuse loftily to even engage with snipers and insulters. Besides I hardly notice the snipes you find so troubling, and when I see them, it affects my opinion of the sniper rather than their target usually.

If you want to squabble, go to thunderbolt. If you don't like posts here, report them. That's the etiquette now innt?

You are possibly right in an ideal world, if I were perfect. But the nature of successful internet bullying is to poke someone with a twig, repeatedly but not that frequently, so that only the recipient notices. When they crack, the bully runs off to teacher to complain, lots of sobbing etc. Teacher, only looking at the most recent post, can’t see the big picture and the one being bullied is censured. That is why internet bullying is so easy and successful. You’ll notice that JP has quoted one of my posts without adding anything, the classic sign of having run to teacher.

JP and VV would last 5 mins on thunderboat, their behaviour would be called out. That’s why they daren't go there.

13 minutes ago, Athy said:

So far, though there have been fairly frank exchanges of views, no one has thrown personal insults around, but there's a possibility that someone may soon overstep that line. Please don't.

I’m done with it for now. But I am fairly confident it will all repeat in a few months’ time.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

You’ll notice that JP has quoted one of my posts without adding anything, the classic sign of having run to teacher.

 

Now I'm REALLY curious. I often see posts here which quote another post without adding anything. Are they something to do with prodding someone with that twig? How so?

[alan_fincher]

5 hours ago, nicknorman said:

And the ironic part is you like to play at old fashioned boating! But I can assure you that mooring on a junction on a lock landing has not been acceptable during the history of the canals and only will be if it becomes infested with people like you, for whom taking pot shots at others is the most important thing.

 

I can assure you you actually couldn't be more wrong Nick.

You clearly don't have the interest to look at many images of how the canals were actually worked.

Boats were left all over the place if it suited those doing it, and pictures of what looks like mayhem at locks and junctions are commonplace.

Working boaters would very rarely have brought their boat to the side as they were about to work through a lock - there probably would not have been the required depth anyway.

The normal way of working was that if you knew a lock was ahead, and if a boater coming the other way had not indicated it was in your favour, (the gates would have been left open of course), then you would have someone ahead on a bike, and it would have been nade ready to motor straight in to.

Boats moored as in your picture would seldom have been an issue.

Note I am not saying that is how things still should work, or condoning the boats you are unhappy with - I'm simply pulling you up on historical accuracy/

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Now I'm REALLY curious. I often see posts here which quote another post without adding anything. Are they something to do with prodding someone with that twig? How so?

When the bad people feel faux-outraged, they tend to just quote the post so that a copy is taken before they go running to teacher, lest the offending poster has second thoughts and decides to edit their post down, which would spoil their sport and teacher would consider it cry wolf. It’s a fairly common tactic for people who enjoy creating reactions and want the heat-of-the-moment annoyance frozen in time to maximise its exposure. Doesn’t really work with me as when I say something, it is usually well considered and I don’t want to subsequently edit it.

Of course, sometimes it’s just finger trouble!

[Paul C]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I can assure you you actually couldn't be more wrong Nick.

You clearly don't have the interest to look at many images of how the canals were actually worked.

Boats were left all over the place if it suited those doing it, and pictures of what looks like mayhem at locks and junctions are commonplace.

Working boaters would very rarely have brought their boat to the side as they were about to work through a lock - there probably would not have been the required depth anyway.

The normal way of working was that if you knew a lock was ahead, and if a boater coming the other way had not indicated it was in your favour, (the gates would have been left open of course), then you would have someone ahead on a bike, and it would have been nade ready to motor straight in to.

Boats moored as in your picture would seldom have been an issue.

Note I am not saying that is how things still should work, or condoning the boats you are unhappy with - I'm simply pulling you up on historical accuracy/

When were canals invented? When was the camera invented? When were engines predominantly used on canal boats? I think possibly the history goes back further than your images suggest.....are you looking at a small slice of late history of canals, possibly?

[nicknorman]

18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I can assure you you actually couldn't be more wrong Nick.

You clearly don't have the interest to look at many images of how the canals were actually worked.

Boats were left all over the place if it suited those doing it, and pictures of what looks like mayhem at locks and junctions are commonplace.

Working boaters would very rarely have brought their boat to the side as they were about to work through a lock - there probably would not have been the required depth anyway.

The normal way of working was that if you knew a lock was ahead, and if a boater coming the other way had not indicated it was in your favour, (the gates would have been left open of course), then you would have someone ahead on a bike, and it would have been nade ready to motor straight in to.

Boats moored as in your picture would seldom have been an issue.

Note I am not saying that is how things still should work, or condoning the boats you are unhappy with - I'm simply pulling you up on historical accuracy/

But the difference is, all those boats in congested pack were just waiting to do something, get a load from a nearby wharf or whatever. They weren’t moored in a random place causing an obstruction for weeks at a time.

Edited October 26, 2017 by nicknorman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

It looks like they've shown consideration by breasting up and leaving plenty of room in front for a full length boat. 

 

[dmr]

On 25/10/2017 at 09:51, Flyboy said:

That explains it then. A lot of trading /hotel boats seem to think they don't have to follow normal protocol and moor where they like.

As a roving trader, I note that my licence explicitly says that it gives us no priority over any other boat and that the continuous cruising rules and all other rules still apply. I am not sure if the licence for a hotel boat are the same, but its certainly good boating manners to give hotel boats access to moorings.

There are two cases when traders do have relaxed rules.

At a CaRT approved event there will often be reserved moorings for the event and a few days either side of the event, though if an uncooperative boater refuses to move I don't think there is much that can be done.

We are allowed a small overstay on visitor moorings over a weekend if we are trading. The deal is, Arrive Friday. Trade Saturday and Sunday (and Monday if its a bank holiday). Move the next day.

Note that a "licensed Trader Sticker" is a just a bit of advertising/PR produced by the RCTA for its members, and an indication of membership of that organisation. Anybody can produce their own imitation of this and I have seen a couple. The licence disc itself indicates if a boat is really a trader and traders still get proper paper licence discs from CaRT rather than DIY printer jobbies.

for the pedants, the licence disc is a square disc

................Dave