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Not quite the final straight, But Lutine's epic voyage is nearing it's conclusion, yesterday and today I made it from Little Bedwyn to Wootton Rivers*. However, we are limping along...

Engine (Lister ST2) will not start without easy start - I know what is said about addiction but I suspect that is horseradish. The problem that causes the difficult starting has not been fixed therefore it needs easy start.

Worse, however, she is increasingly stalling at low revs, which I presume is low compression, she's often very difficult to restart

This means I'm keeping the revs high to the point of embarrassment when passing fishermen and moored boats lest the engine stall - she is a bit overpropped anyway so even at tickover she is quite fast (although with very little wash) - with tickover not an option she is a bit too nippy, and the engine noise convinces people I'm speeding anyway.  

On top of which is the well documented diesel into lubricating oil leak - which means after about 5-6 hours running the engine is very hot indeed. 

A couple of curious factors:

She is easiest to start when cold with new oil (and the right amount of it) - 5 litres of fresh oil rather than anything up to 10 litres of diesel oil mix

Whilst she stalls at low revs she is most prone to stall when dropping revs and in forward gear. Indeed if she is faltering the best thing to do is get out of gear and let the revs go back on (which usually doesn't involve touching the throttle - twin lever control)

Reverse gear doesn't seem to have the same effect, but then reverse gear isn't that effective as she doesn't have enough ballast so it may be there is less load? It could also be that as I don't use reverse in the same way the stalling doesn't show up.

We are now between 15 & 20 engine hours off Brassknocker Basin, after which arrangements will be made for the engine whisperer to deliver a new unit and our troubles should be over. Does anyone have any suggestions (other than borrow a horse) to assist in limping along, especially at low revs. It would be so much easier if she would be stuck on low revs rather than the opposite!

I am aware that keeping revs high when engaging gear is probably not that good for the gear box...

* closed summit level coupled with World Canal Conference meant a long habitation at Froxfield

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Use a long shaft and punt her along?

3 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I am aware that keeping revs high when engaging gear is probably not that good for the gear box...

I wouldn't worry too much about the gearbox

Richard

Edited by RLWP
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Richard, thanks for the gearbox advice, as 5 of the 15 hours will be Devizes where the revs are unlikely to upset anyone but the boat will have to stop and start at least 29 times (once for each lock) it's good to know

A tow or punting will be the last resort when easy start isn't enough

Overall I can make the journey, low revs past anglers and moored boats will make me more popular... any suggestions...? Today I kept speed down by slipping out of gear (which made me realise that the engine noise alone is enough to get me shouted at for going too fast) - that will be difficult past a long line of boats or anglers

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We're due an easterly wind soon which would blow you home.  A simple square rig sail could be erected on a makeshift mast propped up on the fore deck against the cabin front. Just a simple old table cloth on a yard with a couple of sheets to control it. A little pulley at the masthead for a halyard fixed to the yard to hoist sail and to drop the sail in a second in order to stop..

  • Happy 1
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43 minutes ago, bizzard said:

We're due an easterly wind soon which would blow you home.  A simple square rig sail could be erected on a makeshift mast propped up on the fore deck against the cabin front. Just a simple old table cloth on a yard with a couple of sheets to control it. A little pulley at the masthead for a halyard fixed to the yard to hoist sail and to drop the sail in a second in order to stop..

we've got a storm jib (for a 40ft lumpy boat) you could borrow. Strong southerlies forecast up to the end of the weekend. Assume you are going west down the K&A. Great broad reach all the way down!

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23 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

She is easiest to start when cold with new oil (and the right amount of it) - 5 litres of fresh oil rather than anything up to 10 litres of diesel oil mix

Whilst she stalls at low revs she is most prone to stall when dropping revs and in forward gear. Indeed if she is faltering the best thing to do is get out of gear and let the revs go back on (which usually doesn't involve touching the throttle - twin lever control)

 

These two factors suggest to me the stalling is nothing to do with low compression. Low compression is far more likely to be a problem with a cold engine and/or an engine turning over very slowly i.e. at starter motor cranking speed. Once started and warmed up, low compression problems generally disappear.

I'm inclined to suspect the rising oil level. Too much oil in the sump means the crankshaft 'could' be rotating underwater which would suck the power out of an engine trying to tick over. So try draining out some excess lubricant down to the correct level and see if the problem improves/disappears. 

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I had much the same with my SR2 when the oil was getting very dilute, to the extent of the engine stopping in the middle of the Harecastle as it overheated. When I got out the oil was boiling with smoke pouring out of the pots. 

The SR2 can function OK on a fairly high dilution of oil, so I just used to let the level get an inch too high on the stick, drain it to the lower mark, refill to the top mark and carry on. And change the oil completely after having done that four times. The time it boiled I hadn't done a full change for too long. 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The problem then is, that after a fairly short time, you will be running/lubricating on almost pure diesel instead of oil.

 

I don't think that matters a jot given this engine is running on borrowed time already, and the alternative is to stop and organise a fifty lock-mile tow (or crane and lorry, or towpath engine rebuild). 

Pure diesel is very slippery and an engine would probably run many hundreds of hours with diesel instead of oil in the sump before wearing out.

 

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Are you sure there isn't an underlying problem with fuel delivery? Another possibility is that if compression is already poor, any splash lubrication from the rotating crankshaft will deliver diesel into the bores, rather than engine oil. I would imagine this would have the effect of lowering compression. 

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Is it actually running on both cylinders. Running on one cylinder would still deliver several hp, enough to power the boat along quite merrily, but would stall easily when the throttles closed. Can be tested for this using the de-compression levers, if they've not been trodden on and broken off. Or feel the valve covers. If one is a lot cooler than the other then that would be the faulty one.

Edited by bizzard
  • Greenie 1
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The easystart addiction may be true. The theory is that engines that need easystart are old and knackered with bad rings and worn bores and its just all the crud stuck around the rings that gives a bit of compression. Easystart can give an extra fierce bang when it ignites which shakes some of this crud off.

As you are heading towards a new engine then don't worry about it, a start with easystart ("starts all engines first time") is infinitely better than no start at all.

Congratulations on getting as far as you have with such a naughty boat, don't give up.

...................Dave

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MtB has it about right on the "oil" and in any event I have loads of the stuff and am doing regular full changes

Bizzard may be right, I suspect the front pot is not firing properly if at all 

This morning she was really struggling - it is load related, I realised that as I piled on the revs when aground. The engine starts to struggle when she is moving freely and the stern digs in, if the prop is cavitating then no problem. I found a sweet spot on the throttle where she didn't stall through low revs and also didn't dig in deep either, and just dropped out of gear past moored boats.

However when I moored I found she had been busy chewing up the alternator drive belt. It is still a complete loop, but looks very very ragged... as if it has been slipping badly, I wonder if that's been part of the load problem 

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9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The problem with the whole thing is only the newness wearing off. :)

I always wondered why new engines had to be run in, now I know.

When I buy new clothes I screw them up and put them in the corner of the clothes cupboard for a few months to let the newness wear off, but I don't always work.

.............Dave

 

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9 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

 

The SR2 can function OK on a fairly high dilution of oil, so I just used to let the level get an inch too high on the stick, drain it to the lower mark, refill to the top mark and carry on. And change the oil completely after having done that four times. The time it boiled I hadn't done a full change for too long. 

Thanks Arthur, that's roughly what I'm doing - and I too overheated in Harecastle, although that seems a long time ago now!

 

7 hours ago, dmr said:

Congratulations on getting as far as you have with such a naughty boat, don't give up.

...................Dave

Thanks Dave, it has taken determination and ingenuity in roughly equal measure! It has probably depended to some extent on ignorance as well, if I'd known once the trouble started just how bad it might get I might not have done it!

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If you have one cylinder not firing, and that seems likely since surely the fuel in the oil is coming from a split injector pipe? Then decompress that cylinder and take the injector pipe off at the pump an stick a bit of plastic hose on instead and run it to a catch bottle. Then go home on a single.

  • Greenie 1
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7 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

If you have one cylinder not firing, and that seems likely since surely the fuel in the oil is coming from a split injector pipe? Then decompress that cylinder and take the injector pipe off at the pump an stick a bit of plastic hose on instead and run it to a catch bottle. Then go home on a single.

I remember when I was 14 and went on a canoe trip with the school, the coach we were on had an injector pipe fail and the driver routed that into a bottle and carried on. mind you he did have more than 2 cylinders 

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Years ago a customer came to me with a bad missfire, a Ford Consul Mk11. He bought it from a well known dodgy car trader, the trilby hatted Arthur Daley type whom I new many of, The engine was missing a compression completely, nothing at all, I did a few checks and an air pressure test where I screwed an adapter and airline into each spark plug hole. When fitted to the faulty cylinder and the airline turned on at 150 psi, a gale force wind gushed out of everywhere, blew the dipstick out and the oil filler cap blew off and hit me under the chin. Removed the cylinder head and low and behold, no piston or con rod in No2.  Sump off, naked No2 crank journal with its oil hole blocked up with what looked like Araldite. It had run the bearings out and ruined the journal, and the piston and rod had been removed which made it into a 3 cylinder Fraud Consul.  The owner stopped me there, paid me for my time and towed the car away back to the dealer. I never heard the outcome.

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6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Years ago a customer came to me with a bad missfire, a Ford Consul Mk11. He bought it from a well known dodgy car trader, the trilby hatted Arthur Daley type whom I new many of, The engine was missing a compression completely, nothing at all, I did a few checks and an air pressure test where I screwed an adapter and airline into each spark plug hole. When fitted to the faulty cylinder and the airline turned on at 150 psi, a gale force wind gushed out of everywhere, blew the dipstick out and the oil filler cap blew off and hit me under the chin. Removed the cylinder head and low and behold, no piston or con rod in No2.  Sump off, naked No2 crank journal with its oil hole blocked up with what looked like Araldite. It had run the bearings out and ruined the journal, and the piston and rod had been removed which made it into a 3 cylinder Fraud Consul.  The owner stopped me there, paid me for my time and towed the car away back to the dealer. I never heard the outcome.

 

Shame is wasn't the six cylinder Ford Zodiac. The missing piston may not have actually been, err, missed so easily.

And on a point of order, I don't remember Araldite being invented until the seventies... time for a google.

 

Edit to add: 1945 according to Wiki!!

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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