Jump to content

HS2 canal crossing points


Peter-Bullfinch
 Share

Featured Posts

This one crosses the Trent and Mersey between Middlewich and Northwich twice just àbove the ends of the lovely flash. That's the bad news. The up side is that at least there will be a decent phone signal here then because at the moment it is woeful.

 

20170719_143154.jpg

20170719_142721.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spending billions to cut travel time by a few minutes does seem to be financially irresponsible, but politicians do love a good vanity project that will, they hope, ensure their names live on, though whether as a curse or not is another matter.

A cost of around €60 million per kilometre has been suggested for here in France, it seems unlikely that the U.K. costs will be less. 

One wonders how much people will be willing to pay to ride on these lines?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is hot issue here in Aylesbury as the HS2 goes straight through our town and surrounding area but we are not going to be given a stop so we get all the noise and hassle when it is being built and none of the benefit.  If I recall correctly, it is going into a green tunnel when it gets near Chequers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

HS2 is bar far the greatest obscenity ever to arise in my lifetime. The whole thing is uneccesary, fifty years too late and abhorrent.

Apart from that, you're in favour, then?

I agree, although I have been a lifelong lover of railways I am against it because it won't do much good and will despoil large amounts of countryside. What has happened to the society which was campaigning against it? I remember that at least one former CWFer was a member.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

HS2 is bar far the greatest obscenity ever to arise in my lifetime. The whole thing is uneccesary, fifty years too late and abhorrent.

I have to agree. All those billions could be spent elsewhere. NHS,Education,Defense. And would they really miss a million that finds itself in my bank account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

HS2 is bar far the greatest obscenity ever to arise in my lifetime. The whole thing is uneccesary, fifty years too late and abhorrent.

I take it you disagree with its construction then?

Perhaps you will be able to explain to the good people of the Chilterns that the new motorway required in its place to provide the extra capacity needed, will be an asset to their area.  After all, having spent so much money surveying a route it would be silly to build that road on anything other than the HS2 alignment.

There is of course another alternative solution.  That is to close all the commuter stations on the West Coast Main Line to enable more trains on the express services.  I doubt that solution would suit the NIMBYs either.

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Though it may not greatly reduce journey times it will increase capacity a lot, so no more will the special person be sitting on the floor because he says he could not find a seat he likes...........

Edited by Chewbacka
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Nightwatch said:

I am not in the 'NIMBY' club. But when I hear amounts of possibly 100 billion pounds being mentioned I ind that quite obscene.

One Hundred X Thousand million pound coins. 

Or you could give 100 billion to the EU as a divorce settlement........   I know which I think is better value for the UK, but I don't actually like either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flashback a couple of centuries or so. Why do we need these ditches? Come forward another century or so, and do we really need these 'snorting beasts'?

What about the 1950's? Did we really need these swathes of concrete?

Where would we now be without canals, railways and motorways?  I agree that the saving in time is minimal, but these will be in addition to the existing tracks and anyone using trains knows that there is a need for extra capacity. Any large infrastructure project has its detractors. It is just that this one impacts upon those who consider themselves above the average individual andcan make lots of noise. If we want to keep moving, with an burgeoning population, then so be it. Carry on.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Peter-Bullfinch said:

This one crosses the Trent and Mersey between Middlewich and Northwich twice just àbove the ends of the lovely flash. That's the bad news. The up side is that at least there will be a decent phone signal here then because at the moment it is woeful.

 

 

 

There will also be a huge embankment and large yards for car maintenance close to the Middlewich branch near Wimboldsley.

They said that with E-W Crossrail finishing, that will free up £2Bn a year for this project.  However now they are planning to use that to build a N-S Crossrail in London.

It's a huge amount of money, and will no doubt go 3 to 4 times over budget as there are no fixed costs or penalty clauses for the Government's mates, the contractors.

 

It would have been great to have done it 40 or 50 years ago, when France was putting in its TGV lines, but by the time it is built I doubt it will be needed.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I am not in the 'NIMBY' club. But when I hear amounts of possibly 100 billion pounds being mentioned I ind that quite obscene.

One Hundred X Thousand million pound coins. 

I bet you heard that figure from that impartial source, the anti HS2 group.

The true figure is £55billions, spread over 16 years, and that includes all the new trains  that are to run on the line.  The actual infrastructure is considerably less than that.

When did you last see the price of a new motorway include the cost of all the road vehicles that would run on that road?

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rather than new high speed lines that will only benefit a few how about reinstating and modernising the branch lines?

HS2 is yet another london centred project. Improving east-west rail connections at various points up the country would help greatly. It's also bizzare that the cheapest fares are from london. E.g. It's cheaper to go from London to Glasgow or Edinburgh than from the East Midlands. 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

I bet you heard that figure from that impartial source, the anti HS2 group.

The true figure is £55billions, spread over 16 years, and that includes all the new trains  that are to run on the line.  The actual infrastructure is considerably less than that.

When did you last see the price of a new motorway include the cost of all the road vehicles that would run on that road?

George

Motorways can be used by a far greater majority of ordinary people, They have infinitely greater links to peoples homes and workplaces and do not go from a to b with just a few stopping off places at scripted times. A motorway is vastly more use to mr and mrs Joe Bloggs than a train to cut a few uneccesary minutes from a journey when in todays technological work place most business meetings are no longer needed.

5 minutes ago, frangar said:

Rather than new high speed lines that will only benefit a few how about reinstating and modernising the branch lines?

HS2 is yet another london centred project. Improving east-west rail connections at various points up the country would help greatly. It's also bizzare that the cheapest fares are from london. E.g. It's cheaper to go from London to Glasgow or Edinburgh than from the East Midlands. 

Yes in truth again its all about poxy London, wherever that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, frangar said:

Rather than new high speed lines that will only benefit a few how about reinstating and modernising the branch lines?

 

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

I tend to agree.

If Dr.Beeching's paymasters (for he himself was not the villain, he was only obeying orders) could have foreseen the immense growth in road traffic over the subsequent 50 years, they would never have closed many of the railway lines which perished in the 1960s. Some were, of course, hopelessly uneconomical and would probably be so even today, but others would be of immense value.

Some limited reinstatement of these old lines has indeed taken place, be it in railway form or (as is the case not far from here) the use of the former trackbed as a guided bus way, but the HS2 zillions would be far better, and more evenly, used to reinvigorate the old secondary lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

 

If Dr.Beeching's paymasters (for he himself was not the villain, he was only obeying orders) could have foreseen the immense growth in road traffic over the subsequent 50 years, they would never have closed many of the railway lines which perished in the 1960s. Some were, of course, hopelessly uneconomical and would probably be so even today, but others would be of immense value.

 

Of course Dr Beeching's paymasters forsaw the immense growth in road traffic.

It was a prerequisite of the motorway building programme that railways be eliminated from the equation.

George

7 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Motorways can be used by a far greater majority of ordinary people, They have infinitely greater links to peoples homes and workplaces and do not go from a to b with just a few stopping off places at scripted times. A motorway is vastly more use to mr and mrs Joe Bloggs than a train to cut a few uneccesary minutes from a journey when in todays technological work place most business meetings are no longer needed.

 

I was simply referring to motorways from the costing point of view.

Whether we should build more motorways or rail capacity is a political decision which has to be made.

People seem to place great store in using domestic air journeys so those unnecessary minutes mean something to some people.

George

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Of course Dr Beeching's paymasters forsaw the immense growth in road traffic.

It was a prerequisite of the motorway building programme that railways be eliminated from the equation.

George

And I believe that the (Tory) minister responsible for wanting all the motorways built was also the principal of the main contractor that built them.  Who would have thought it eh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard the figure on one of the main news bulletins. Either over the weekend or just before.

whatever the arguments for or against, it's a vast amount of money taking into consideration the state of the country at present. Put on hold for,say,twenty years then we may be able to afford it, if we still want it.

Im not on about the why's and wherefores, can we justify the cost at this time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Nightwatch said:

I heard the figure on one of the main news bulletins. Either over the weekend or just before.

whatever the arguments for or against, it's a vast amount of money taking into consideration the state of the country at present. Put on hold for,say,twenty years then we may be able to afford it, if we still want it.

Im not on about the why's and wherefores, can we justify the cost at this time?

Far better to give it to the Europeans when /if we ever get out of that mess called the eu rather than our continuous propping up of that lot :icecream:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

Of course Dr Beeching's paymasters foresaw the immense growth in road traffic.

 

At this distance we can't prove it, but I very much doubt that. Nowadays, most households have a car and many have two; such a multiplication of private vehicle ownership astounded and confounded just about everybody, and I'm convinced that the government were included amonst that number.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We move goods to and fro,east to west and North to South.

Spike Milligan once said, to save fuel costs why dont the Germans bomb Germany and the British bomb Britain! 

Why do business people need to travel the country. There's video links etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, dor said:

There will also be a huge embankment and large yards for car maintenance close to the Middlewich branch near Wimboldsley.

They said that with E-W Crossrail finishing, that will free up £2Bn a year for this project.  However now they are planning to use that to build a N-S Crossrail in London.

It's a huge amount of money, and will no doubt go 3 to 4 times over budget as there are no fixed costs or penalty clauses for the Government's mates, the contractors.

 

It would have been great to have done it 40 or 50 years ago, when France was putting in its TGV lines, but by the time it is built I doubt it will be needed.

On what basis do you say that it will not then be needed?

Are you suggesting that travel will decline, despite the sustained growth for a long time (like for ever!) in travel of all sorts?

Or are you suggesting that we will find a way of utilising roads that is several times more efficient than now?

Or are you positing an entirely new form of transport? (like teleportation)

The difference between 'needed' and 'most cost effective' is important. For the balance to change significantly then there will have to be very large uplift in the relative cost of using HS2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

At this distance we can't prove it, but I very much doubt that. Nowadays, most households have a car and many have two; such a multiplication of private vehicle ownership astounded and confounded just about everybody, and I'm convinced that the government were included amonst that number.

We don't have a car. However when we lived in Waterlooville the nearest Rail Station was two bus journeys away.,so needed a car.

The suggestion of reinstating branch lines is a guddun!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.