Dharl Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 55 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Yes there is quite a lot to it. For instance when I started on the Notts Princess in 2012 I had a Boatmasters licence but there was no way the mca would allow me to skipper the Princess because of passenger numbers 172 against narrowboats of much less and the Princess is way bigger in every way with twin screws etc and much fire fighting equipment and 8 watertight compartment with " stuff " in them etc etc and a big part of the mca boatmasters for that class of boat is boat knowledge. Also everyone has to be tested in that particular area because of Trent bridge. I did have some forum members in the wheelhouse for a drive a few times and they said it was " an experience " ask Matty for instance. When I moved back down here I went into salters and they offered me a skippers job on their steamers and the mca were fine with that and all I had to do was be shown local knowledge because their steamers are smaller and the river a similar environment to the Trent at Nottingham though smaller. On the blue water stuff with MCA 'tickets' there are a few more things to do as well. Whilst the MCA Oral exam and written exams are only take when you go up a grade there are however numerous STCW95 courses as well as other course (including in simulators) and exams that you need to do every 5 years in order to keep your 'tickets in date'. Not as numerous as my friends who hold an ATPL and are in the 'box' every 6 months for proficiency tests mind you and the medical is a bit easier on you but no less important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayalld Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 35 minutes ago, nicknorman said: I have to say your posting style has become a little cryptic of late! Firstly I am expected to work out that when you said I was wrong, you didn't actually mean it. Now, having used the term "group norm" I am supposed to work out which group you are talking about. I chose the obvious one, but seems it was wrong. So when you single hand, the group in your group norm consists just of yourself. Are you a group? You say that "it is imperitive that everybody in that group is singing from the same hymn sheet" but clearly it is only imperitive to you. Why? If I say lack of flexibilit, insecurity and under-confidence, you will no doubt complain the I'm insulting you. So I'd better not say that! For most other people it is not imperitive - which is just as well since there are many ways to skin a lock, many of them equally valid. Going through a lock is a tiny morsel, not an enormous meal! The comma is such an important punctuation mark, and I thought it obvious that by using one it was detaching the wrongness from the clarity. So; It is clear that you will stick to your view. I hold the view that your view is wrong, and I know that you will react if I say "you are wrong" rather than "I disagree with you" We are talking about safe operation of a lock. It ought to be obvious that safe operation is absolutely dependent on everybody who is participating understanding how the job is to be done. As soon as you have somebody who wants to do it differently, you have a danger. Clearly, the only group that actually matters is the group that is participating in an activity. The core of that group is the crew of the boat, and anybody who wants to be added to the group must play by the same rules. As you say, there are many ways to skin a lock that are equally valid. A disorganised mixture is not one of them. To take an example, we ascend a lock riding the front gate, you do not. If we arrive at a lock to ascend in this way, Bev will slow right down so as to nudge the stonework whilst I close the tail gates. Then I will go to the top gates, await a signal, draw half a paddle, check that the boat settles, await signal, draw the rest of the paddle, and repeat for the other paddle. You might well say that it is equally valid to ascend without moving forward, and wind a paddle. That is dangerous, because the steerer isn't expecting a paddle drawn AT THAT MOMENT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 27 minutes ago, mayalld said: The comma is such an important punctuation mark, and I thought it obvious that by using one it was detaching the wrongness from the clarity. So; It is clear that you will stick to your view. I hold the view that your view is wrong, and I know that you will react if I say "you are wrong" rather than "I disagree with you" We are talking about safe operation of a lock. It ought to be obvious that safe operation is absolutely dependent on everybody who is participating understanding how the job is to be done. As soon as you have somebody who wants to do it differently, you have a danger. Clearly, the only group that actually matters is the group that is participating in an activity. The core of that group is the crew of the boat, and anybody who wants to be added to the group must play by the same rules. As you say, there are many ways to skin a lock that are equally valid. A disorganised mixture is not one of them. To take an example, we ascend a lock riding the front gate, you do not. If we arrive at a lock to ascend in this way, Bev will slow right down so as to nudge the stonework whilst I close the tail gates. Then I will go to the top gates, await a signal, draw half a paddle, check that the boat settles, await signal, draw the rest of the paddle, and repeat for the other paddle. You might well say that it is equally valid to ascend without moving forward, and wind a paddle. That is dangerous, because the steerer isn't expecting a paddle drawn AT THAT MOMENT. Huge meal. Or is it a banquet? Safe operation of a lock is not really dependant on anything much. You open the gates, the boat goes in, the gates close, the paddles are opened, the gates are opened, the boat goes out. I'm full now, need to go in a diet! it really doesn't matter too much the exact minutiae of the detail. What I think we both agree is important is that in the extremely unlikely event of anything going wrong (though I accept, somewhat more likely with a 72' boat in a 72' lock) and when someone notices it and calls it, remedial action is taken straight away. On your point about whether the boat is going to end up at the front or the back of the lock, this is entirely obvious. When I come in to the lock I'll hit reverse probably before the stern is passed the gates. It's obvious that I'm aiming for the back of the lock and I will be ready as soon as the gates close. If someone is aiming for the front of the lock and brings the boat to a complete stop with the back near the bottom gate and the front 15' away from the top gate, with the intention of subsequently moving forward to the top gate, then I guess that could be misleading but why would anyone do that? Folk who want to put their bows on the gate drift forward, decelerating gently until the bow touches. It's obvious that this is their intention in which case (even though personally I think it's the wrong way to operate a medium length boat when not single handed) one has to wait the extra time until they are in contact with the top gate. The extra time, and of course the fender rubbing, the potential for something to catch on the fender/front of the boat, the possible scrapery of the blacking below the fender all being the reasons why this is not the best way to operate such a boat. But I acknowledge that some folk just like to make things more difficult and dangerous for themselves and that is of course their prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayalld Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, nicknorman said: Huge meal. Or is it a banquet? Safe operation of a lock is not really dependant on anything much. You open the gates, the boat goes in, the gates close, the paddles are opened, the gates are opened, the boat goes out. I'm full now, need to go in a diet! Your attitude to safety simply means that having you anywhere near my boat in a lock is an unacceptable risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, mayalld said: Your attitude to safety simply means that having you anywhere near my boat in a lock is an unacceptable risk. Run! Hide! I'm coming to get you!!! It's such a shame that my name isn't Johnny. Edited July 19, 2017 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac of Cygnet Posted July 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 To return to the long-lost OP, I have now receiv2d a reply to my complaint: Cranfleet Lock Thank you for your email of the 16 July concerning your passage through Cranfleet Lock. Can I firstly apologise for the poor service you experienced. I quite agree with you, it is not a matter of opinion as to whether you need the skippers say-so before opening the paddles, it is essential and critical to the safe operation of the lock. We will speak to the volunteers concerned and address any training requirements to ensure they are acting safely. I am glad that your other experiences of our volunteers are good and so I hope this is a one off issue that we can quickly address. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and my apologies again that you had to. Regards Sean McGinley Waterway Manager 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john6767 Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 15 minutes ago, Mac of Cygnet said: To return to the long-lost OP, I have now receiv2d a reply to my complaint: Cranfleet Lock Thank you for your email of the 16 July concerning your passage through Cranfleet Lock. Can I firstly apologise for the poor service you experienced. I quite agree with you, it is not a matter of opinion as to whether you need the skippers say-so before opening the paddles, it is essential and critical to the safe operation of the lock. We will speak to the volunteers concerned and address any training requirements to ensure they are acting safely. I am glad that your other experiences of our volunteers are good and so I hope this is a one off issue that we can quickly address. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and my apologies again that you had to. Regards Sean McGinley Waterway Manager You could not ask for more as a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just now, WotEver said: Result Yeah, perhaps Nick should read it he may learn something re safe use of locks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Yeah, perhaps Nick should read it he may learn something re safe use of locks Indeed....but what do us mere mortal non Hudson owning boaters know.... And well done to the OP in the response. Let's hope it gets repeated network wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, mrsmelly said: Yeah, perhaps Nick should read it he may learn something re safe use of locks Why not actually read what I wrote, rather than what you hoped I wrote in order to make your story work? I have repeatedly said on here that I fully support the OP's complaint. if you don't understand the differences between a Trent lock and an Atherstone one, well I think you need a bit more of that supervision you were talking about. 3 hours ago, frangar said: Indeed....but what do us mere mortal non Hudson owning boaters know.... Very little it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, nicknorman said: Why not actually read what I wrote, rather than what you hoped I wrote in order to make your story work? I have repeatedly said on here that I fully support the OP's complaint. if you don't understand the differences between a Trent lock and an Atherstone one, well I think you need a bit more of that supervision you were talking about. Sorry I thought you had typed somewhere that you drive the boat in paddles are lifted gates opened etc and there is no need to check first if all is right with the world......................I aint going to trawl back to find it.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Sorry I thought you had typed somewhere that you drive the boat in paddles are lifted gates opened etc and there is no need to check first if all is right with the world......................I aint going to trawl back to find it.............. That's two of us that had formed that opinion.......perhaps there was a clever message that we missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 59 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: Sorry I thought you had typed somewhere that you drive the boat in paddles are lifted gates opened etc and there is no need to check first if all is right with the world......................I aint going to trawl back to find it.............. 55 minutes ago, frangar said: That's two of us that had formed that opinion.......perhaps there was a clever message that we missed. I'm so sorry that you are struggling to understand that my contributions to this thread is split into two seperate issues. Perhaps this link will help: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogless Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 Top of page two. Quote relating to Atherstone flight with Telemachus's first comment directed to it. I know, at your age it's difficult Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 I'll be off heading for Audlem with a pair tomorrow so plenty of opportunities to practice my locking technique and as I'll be towing and in ex working boats I'll have priority at all the locks with the rights to lock both boats through without letting anyone else lock through in between. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frangar Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, nicknorman said: I'm so sorry that you are struggling to understand that my contributions to this thread is split into two seperate issues. Perhaps this link will help: So does being condescending come with the Hudson as standard or did you have to order it as an extra??......maybe you had to prove it before you were allowed into the yard.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, frangar said: So does being condescending come with the Hudson as standard or did you have to order it as an extra??......maybe you had to prove it before you were allowed into the yard.......... No, you just had to prove that you could read and comprehend English. 1 hour ago, Rob-M said: I'll be off heading for Audlem with a pair tomorrow so plenty of opportunities to practice my locking technique and as I'll be towing and in ex working boats I'll have priority at all the locks with the rights to lock both boats through without letting anyone else lock through in between. What's worrying is that some people will think you are being serious! Mind you, you didn't specify a pair of what?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob-M Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, nicknorman said: No, you just had to prove that you could read and comprehend English. What's worrying is that some people will think you are being serious! Mind you, you didn't specify a pair of what?! Hopefully competent crew. I did mention towing so it could be inferred that it is a pair of boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Rob-M said: Hopefully competent crew. I did mention towing so it could be inferred that it is a pair of boats. Oh. I thought it might be a pair o' teef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty40s Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, nicknorman said: I have repeatedly said on here that I fully support the OP's complaint. if you don't understand the differences between a Trent lock and an Atherstone one, well I think you need a bit more of that supervision you were talking about. If you are so right about the Atherstone flight, why was the Atherstone wedge invented and why does mine work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 What's an Atherstone wedge? A brief google suggests its a golf club but I'm not sure that is right in this context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said: What's an Atherstone wedge? A brief google suggests its a golf club but I'm not sure that is right in this context The video earlier seems to suggest it is a large wooden wedge pushed into the gap produced by pushing the gates with the boat. I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 On 19/07/2017 at 22:33, Jerra said: The video earlier seems to suggest it is a large wooden wedge pushed into the gap produced by pushing the gates with the boat. I may be wrong. Ok I'll persist. Why would one need to push a wedge into the gap? I've not noticed a link to a video. Any idea what post number it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerra Posted July 19, 2017 Report Share Posted July 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Ok I'll persist. Why would one need to push a wedge into the gap? I've not noticed a link to a video. Any idea what post number it is? Sorry the video obviously wasn't in this thread I will have a dig and see if I can find it I saw it only a few days ago. I have no idea why one would be needed or used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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