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When i read this thread yesterday , these were my initial thoughts too . Im inexperienced in such matters so kept out but i also think that from here the way forward has got be to get your boat back , do some intensive homework , & get some paint on by yourselves . Once done you can then look to book another professional painter in 18 - 24 months time maybe . 

Im hoping to do a DIY repaint towards the end of the summer and im looking into a paint called Tractol . I think doing it yourselves will enable you to get out boating and still get something from this summer , protect the boat at mimimal extra cost & allow you to " move on " mentally from this huge let down . 

Just my thoughts , i hope it all gets sorted as it sounds like a mare 

cheers

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Is a zinc phosphate primer waterproof or would that need coating with something more durable? It is very easy to apply!!

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The relationship is probably already irreparable but can you persuade the painter to finish priming the boat within a reasonably timeframe within his covered dock then take the boat away. 

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9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

The only reason not to name and shame, ( and help others avoid the same time and money losing debacle), is the risk of being sued for defamation.

If the decision is made for early removal then could a phrase such as "I`ve today removed my boat from XXXXX in an unfinished state as my opinion is I`m not happy with progress"? It leaves the reader to make their own judgement and further enquiries.

My motto got a problem "Get rid of it"

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1 hour ago, Old Son said:

Is a zinc phosphate primer waterproof or would that need coating with something more durable? It is very easy to apply!!

I would never trust a primer to be waterproof, after all it must be porous to a degree so the next coat can grip into it. Even top coat s not fully waterproof if you leave something wet lying on it with water trapped. At least apply a topcoat but nor so sure about Weathershiled now I understand its gone water based.

FWIW I found Johnsons oil based gloss from one of their decorating centres far easier to apply and get a god finish than paint from one of the well advertised "narrowboat paint" suppliers

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We had the hull shot blasted and epoxyed in the spring and the folks that did that for us were great.  We payed for anodes as well and they refunded us as they said ours have miles to go before needing replacement.  We ended up taking a mooring with them and they wanted the painting job but by that time we were already committed.  I got in touch with them yesterday and they have responded that naturally they cant just take a boat in for painting in a day or weeks notice but that if we bring her home they will immediately protect her from the elements and give us the first available paint slot. 

We purchased the boat privately from Ely in Cambridgeshire after seeing an online advert and going to view her and having the survey done.  We have changed her name.  She is in fantastic interior and mechanical condition.  Only 1300 hours on the engine and the interior was done to a very high spec.  It was one of those situations where someone bought a boat, life got in the way, so it basically sat in a marina for 4 years.  We are the third owners as the builder was the first. 

I can not say much more about the painter as it would probably reveal the identity but by no means is this painter in any dire financial straits.  It is absolutely a case of biting off more than he could chew and instead of just disappointing us and telling us that, we have been strung along. 

We did not have a contract as in a formal piece of paper that said Contract on the top of it but before giving him the job, we made a list of what we expected and asked him to respond that he was in agreement and ofcourse at the time, everything was fine and not a problem.  Every time we have been promised a date and disappointed, I have documented it.  We have traveled to the yard to see the boat twice when we felt things were not progressing as they should be.  We have photographed everything and have a log of correspondance.  These situations tend to get rather complicated at times so I was careful at every stage to give him ample time to make things right before applying further pressure and then an ultimatum.  I am very well versed in consumer law (its part of my job) and know the steps I should take before attempting to recover money etc etc.   We have given every opporotunity to sort this out reasonably and even gave him the option to let us walk away.    He chose to persist and will ofcourse miss the deadline again and at that time, I have a very good case for removing the boat and expecting a full refund. 

I just want to thank all of you for responding to me and validating what I thought I should do.  We arent mean spirited nasty people looking to harm anyone or get something for nothing.  We do however expect to be treated fairly and are willing to give folks the time to do that.  I think 3.5 months when promised 5 weeks demonstrates that we have been fair. 

I appreciate the time you have taken in all of your responses and I may still need to come back with the next chapter of the story for further advice.  I should know something in the next couple of days as to how this is going to end up.   Being a boat owner but not having vast knowledge on things makes this place invaluable.  You make a real difference when you take the time to help.  Im not sure enough people say that.

 

Onward to the finish line

 

Alison

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12 minutes ago, DpEndofShalo said:

 

I can not say much more about the painter as it would probably reveal the identity

 

He sounds as if he's related to the (in our previous experience, very competent) local gardener and handyman who undertook to renovate our front garden hedge and steps after a car crashed into them, and to provide a quotation so that we could claim for the damage on our insurance. Thus far, he has done half a day's work on the job and hasn't provided the estimate or quotation.

The incident happened last August.

He's a pleasant and able fellow, but he's obviously well liked and in demand in the area and is spreading himself too thinly across the numerous jobs which he's got in hand. It sounds as if your (non-) painter may, in his desire to please, have got himself into a similar situation.

 

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I just thought I'd redress the balance a bit and point out that not all painters are like the one in the OP.  Our butty is undergoing restoration work at the moment  up at WFBCo.  We booked a paint slot with Richard Corbett, who works in the adjacent paint dock.  Unfortunately, the state of the hull was far worse than we anticipated and the work took three months longer than we expected.  I've absolutely no complaints, but it did mean that we lost our paint slot.  The next available one was not until March 2018!  

Richard was brilliant in solving the problem.  He arranged for the boat to be painted in the fitting out dock and organised another boat painter to do the job under his supervision. 

The result is looking excellent.  Superb workmanship and for the first time in thirty years it looks as though we shall be the owners of a "shiny boat".  

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Athy said:

He sounds as if he's related to the (in our previous experience, very competent) local gardener and handyman who undertook to renovate our front garden hedge and steps after a car crashed into them, and to provide a quotation so that we could claim for the damage on our insurance. Thus far, he has done half a day's work on the job and hasn't provided the estimate or quotation.

The incident happened last August.

He's a pleasant and able fellow, but he's obviously well liked and in demand in the area and is spreading himself too thinly across the numerous jobs which he's got in hand. It sounds as if your (non-) painter may, in his desire to please, have got himself into a similar situation.

 

That is absolutely what has taken place here because to be fair to the man, he is someone that you would spend hours talking to.  His reputation with his other canal based business is second to none.  We have stuck it out this long because he is actually a kind person and we felt like he wanted to do as promised, he just can't.  But its now at a point where he needs to just own his error in taking the job on and we cut ties.  Ive hate forcing his hand every step of the way but as demonstrated by my naked boat, it was the right thing to do and now I can comfortably extract myself from the disaster having given every consideration on our side and getting nothing in return.

If it goes ugly for you and you need help making it right in a legal sense, I would be glad to advise.   The law is best left out of these situations if at all possible but sometimes its the only way forward.

 

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4 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I just thought I'd redress the balance a bit and point out that not all painters are like the one in the OP.  Our butty is undergoing restoration work at the moment  up at WFBCo.  We booked a paint slot with Richard Corbett, who works in the adjacent paint dock.  Unfortunately, the state of the hull was far worse than we anticipated and the work took three months longer than we expected.  I've absolutely no complaints, but it did mean that we lost our paint slot.  The next available one was not until March 2018!  

Richard was brilliant in solving the problem.  He arranged for the boat to be painted in the fitting out dock and organised another boat painter to do the job under his supervision. 

The result is looking excellent.  Superb workmanship and for the first time in thirty years it looks as though we shall be the owners of a "shiny boat".  

 

 

I hope you will post pictures when complete :)  Im glad you posted this because I would hate for someone like me to come along and read this thread and think that this is typical.  From talking extensively to people, this is very much out of the ordinary.  What I would advise is as someone previously posted, watching the job a little more closely from the start by perhaps visiting the yard or asking for updates via photograph.  We would have known much sooner that every deadline he was promising was impossible. 

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On 10/07/2017 at 11:03, koukouvagia said:

I just thought I'd redress the balance a bit and point out that not all painters are like the one in the OP.  Our butty is undergoing restoration work at the moment  up at WFBCo.  We booked a paint slot with Richard Corbett, who works in the adjacent paint dock.  Unfortunately, the state of the hull was far worse than we anticipated and the work took three months longer than we expected.  I've absolutely no complaints, but it did mean that we lost our paint slot.  The next available one was not until March 2018!  

Richard was brilliant in solving the problem.  He arranged for the boat to be painted in the fitting out dock and organised another boat painter to do the job under his supervision. 

The result is looking excellent.  Superb workmanship and for the first time in thirty years it looks as though we shall be the owners of a "shiny boat".  

 

International Paints make a "matting additive" for gloss paint so one can avoid this effect, and obtain that '20 year old''look' straight from the tin. 

On 10/07/2017 at 08:03, Tony Brooks said:

I would never trust a primer to be waterproof, after all it must be porous to a degree so the next coat can grip into it. Even top coat s not fully waterproof if you leave something wet lying on it with water trapped. At least apply a topcoat but nor so sure about Weathershiled now I understand its gone water based.

FWIW I found Johnsons oil based gloss from one of their decorating centres far easier to apply and get a god finish than paint from one of the well advertised "narrowboat paint" suppliers

 

Are you sure about that? 

I visited the Dulux Decorating Centre last week to check on this point specifically, and all the literature there says the gloss is still solvent based. Its only the matt and satin which are water based. I must admit I didn't actually ask the counter staff to confirm the gloss is still solvent though.

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8 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

That'll be the solution, then...

:D

Sorry!

Hoorah!

I shouldn't think that any paint is much good after it's been sat in.

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OP,  this is a disappointing start to your narrowboating adventure, but you're dealing with it admirably in my book. I do hope things work out nicety for you in the end and your experience doesn't taint your future enjoyment of your awesome sounding new boat the inland waterways. Fingers crossed for you. :)

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3 hours ago, DpEndofShalo said:

I hope you will post pictures when complete :)  Im glad you posted this because I would hate for someone like me to come along and read this thread and think that this is typical. 

 

Still very much work in progress.

P1230446.JPG.6728129d40047d20ea02484c704bf5a5.JPGP1230447.JPG.134074dae58ac85acb8b4594c8eab168.JPG

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4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

International Paints make a "matting additive" for gloss paint so one can avoid this effect, and obtain that '20 year old''look' straight from the tin. 

When Owl was used in the remake of the Railway Children in 2000, the boat had just been painted and lettered.  The director deemed the boat to be too shiny and ordered that it be coated in some mucky concoction to make it look old. It took ages to restore its pristine appearance.

railwaychildren07.JPG.e000f648a999b15cd9545af3b2bb41e0.JPG

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5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

International Paints make a "matting additive" for gloss paint so one can avoid this effect, and obtain that '20 year old''look' straight from the tin. 

 

 

Wonderful stuff. Its slightly cheaper than the paint itself so makes the overall job more cost effective. Does reduce covering power though so do initial coats in gloss followed by a final coat with the additive. By varying the mix ratio you can select anything from slightly faded to totally matt. Does not store too well, congeals into a waxy lump that takes ages to stir it back into a liquid. Works equally well with Rylard and Symphony (narrowboat) paints. have not yet tried it with Craftmaster.

..............Dave (owner of a non shiny boat)

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On 10/07/2017 at 17:13, dmr said:

Wonderful stuff. Its slightly cheaper than the paint itself so makes the overall job more cost effective. Does reduce covering power though so do initial coats in gloss followed by a final coat with the additive. By varying the mix ratio you can select anything from slightly faded to totally matt. Does not store too well, congeals into a waxy lump that takes ages to stir it back into a liquid. Works equally well with Rylard and Symphony (narrowboat) paints. have not yet tried it with Craftmaster.

..............Dave (owner of a non shiny boat)

 

Dave I keep meaning to ask you... what proportion of matting additive is about right to take the gloss off, but not make the finish fully matt? I have a tin but have yet to try it and the destructions don't say.

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Dave I keep meaning to ask you... what proportion of matting additive is about right to take the gloss off, but not make the finish fully matt? I have a tin but have yet to try it and the destructions don't say.

Not sure if it is relevant, but when I bought my Le Tonkinous varnish (which is very glossy) I bought their matting agent "Gelomat".

It recommends 1 part Gelomat to 1 part varnish for a matt finish, 1 part Gelomat to 2 parts varnish for a satin finish, or whatever portion up to 50% that you like for a custom finish.

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I visited the Dulux Decorating Centre last week to check on this point specifically, and all the literature there says the gloss is still solvent based. Its only the matt and satin which are water based. I must admit I didn't actually ask the counter staff to confirm the gloss is still solvent though.

Weathershield sold in trade outlets is oil based. Weathershield sold in the DIY sheds is water based.

Edited by David Mack

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Dave I keep meaning to ask you... what proportion of matting additive is about right to take the gloss off, but not make the finish fully matt? I have a tin but have yet to try it and the destructions don't say.

I think there is some guidance in the data sheet, but I suggest trial and error. Put some gloss into a jam jar and make suitable marks on the outside in felt tip pen. Add some matting and paint something, if its still too shiny (when fully dry) then add a bit more matting and put another coat on. I suggest starting with 10 parts paint to 2 parts matting. I have most experience with Rylards Oxford Blue. 10 parts paint to 10 parts matting is pretty much fully matt. 10 parts paint to 5 parts matting is mostly matt but with a noticeable bit of shine!

I confess that I am not a good painter and matting does make my lack of skill a bit less obvious. I have just redone the pigeon boxes and slide and it was very difficult in this hot weather. In the past I have used a bit of Owatrol as if often recommended, but I now much prefer a few drops of Craftmaster PPA, it really does help enormously, especially if the paint is from a half empty tin and getting a bit old.

..................Dave

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