I think I can work out what happened at this incident earlier today. Any local knowledge? (relevant to other threads about operating staircase locks).

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/north-shropshire/whitchurch/2017/05/12/two-people-rescued-from-canal-lock-near-whitchurch/

I wonder who the specialist team where who refilled the lock and is a 9mt ladder the shortest the fire brigade carries?

It's a local news report, so we can safely assume that about half of the content was misunderstood by the reporter or sub-editor -- but we can't tell which half. 

Just seen photos on facebook, it was cilled by the bow going up, and was Shropshire Lass a boat for the disable.

Which rather illustrates my point. I'll bet the reporter doesn't know what 'cill' means in this context, either as a noun or a verb!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/26001922752/

Edited May 12, 20179 yr by Robbo

Isn't there a full time lockie on that staircase? 

1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I think I can work out what happened at this incident earlier today. Any local knowledge? (relevant to other threads about operating staircase locks).

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/north-shropshire/whitchurch/2017/05/12/two-people-rescued-from-canal-lock-near-whitchurch/

Simon

It looks like the middle chamber of three?

Leakage through bottom gate of middle chamber?

 

Edited May 12, 20179 yr by mark99

Go on then I'll ask  .........

How? Surely they'd have to have been emptying the lock to get into that position?  Why were they doing that? Were they traversing the flight backwards?

I'm surely missing something here.

5 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Go on then I'll ask  .........

How? Surely they'd have to have been emptying the lock to get into that position?  Why were they doing that? Were they traversing the flight backwards?

I'm surely missing something here.

The article says "There was a problem with the lock so they couldn't fill it up again with water either.", so I wonder if a bottom paddle/gate or had something stuck in them and the water dropped in the chamber after the top chamber ran out of water to fill it?
 

Edited May 12, 20179 yr by Robbo

This is a risk when going up. Sort of reverse cilling. Even when exiting....bow grinds on upper cill and leakage via bottom gates tilts boat sternwards. Although described above does not suggest what happened here it does show that the upper cill is to be wary of pointing both ways.

Edited May 12, 20179 yr by mark99

Assuming they were actually going up, I can't see any reason to do down backwards there, there are really only two possibilities aren't there?  That water leaked out before they started to fill the locks, or that the bow got jammed on the top gates and it pushed the bow under.  At least in the middle of a staircase you can drain all the water out of the lock to stop it sinking.

Is this boat professionally crewed, or is it self hire?

If you move from the bottom chamber to the middle one and go right forward over the cill and the paddles in the gate bellow are not full closed or are still even fully open, if a following boat then turns the bottom lock this would drain the middle chamber and cill the boat by the bows

 

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you move from the bottom chamber to the middle one and go right forward over the cill and the paddles in the gate bellow are not full closed or are still even fully open, if a following boat then turns the bottom lock this would drain the middle chamber and cill the boat by the bows

 

That is a good point

In the photo it looks like the very bottom paddle is still raised, I wonder if they got stuck exiting the middle lock and there was leakage from the gates of the middle lock that meant with the bottom paddle open the middle lock and bottom lock drained before they were in the top lock leaving them with bows stuck on the cill.

In my experience the lockies do tend to run minimum water levels. We grounded on the cill going up last autumn and the lock keeper legged up and let some water down pretty sharpish..he said it was pretty normal for boats to drag on the cill between the locks ! We are not a deep boat either....

I didn't enjoy the experience much to be honest.....

There hasn't always been a lockie in evidence when we have been through here. A few years ago we got sucked back into the top lock whilst half way out by a hire crew behind trying to fill the middle chamber! It was amazing how quickly it happened. Fortunately they shut the paddles fast enough so we only banged into the rear gates, could have been much worse if it had been the middle chamber I imagine. 

I have clear recollection of grinding out the middle chamber in that flight too going up. Lockie was doing the locks.

Last time we went up (September 2016) the lockie was insistent that the middle chamber didn't need to be full. All well and good but define when it is full enough to make sure that you do not hit the cill going up. Judgement is no guarantee. Better to waste a bit of water than cause an accident and when was the Llangollen last short of water?

Not saying that was the cause but it makes you wonder.

I seem to recall lines marked on the lock wall showing where the levels need to be to work through the locks but I may be confusing them with somewhere else as I've not been through there for a good few years.

1 minute ago, Rob-M said:

I seem to recall lines marked on the lock wall showing where the levels need to be to work through the locks but I may be confusing them with somewhere else as I've not been through there for a good few years.

That's right, but I couldn't see them last time we used it which means fill it up in my book.

Nor do I recall any markings. They may have worn out.

10 minutes ago, tizzy said:

Nor do I recall any markings. They may have worn out.

I only saw the notice saying there were some, not the actual markings

 

last time we went up, the lock keeper asked what the draught was, we told him just over 3', we hit the cill hard, he didn't believe the tug was as deep as we said, his words were "so it is actually 3' draught then" then he ran more water through! a 28 ton boat hitting the cill and stopping dead probably didn't do the cill much good either.

Tom

If the upper pound level was low I used to check the  depth down to the top clll with a pole before exiting slowly,  ready to back off immediately if I felt the boat starting to contact the cill. Only did this if there were no leaks from bottom gates, if there was we'd leave the boat in the lock and let some water down from the next pound (or the next one if necessary)