Generator - petrol / lpg / diesel?

[ditchcrawler]

 

I think your post sums it all up but have no idea why this is the case. I buy sealed so I never look at them again and get 2/3 years without problems on a very basic charging with no ( Bulk ( ( Absortion ) charging regime ever why is this I wonder Is it down to how low peeps take them or what? Edit to add am I getting reduced capacity but not using the full capacity so dont realy notice it?

Did you ever do an energy Audit or you may know the answer from experience, but how much over capacity did you have in your batteries when they were new. I just wondered how deeply you were discharging them for in say the first year.

[blackrose]

 

What proportion of the ten years was away from shoreline power?

 

CT

 

Probably less than 10%. My BT and start batteries are still the originals that came with the boat - nearly 12 years old now and still fine.

 

For longevity, keeping them charged seems to be more important than equalisation.

Edited January 15, 2017 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

Are all the engine problems sorted with hanging a Travel Power on the front of the Crank?

[OldGoat]

Mike the Boilerman, on 15 Jan 2017 - 1:04 PM, said:

 

 

It was a fascetious observation Alan.

 

And with my winter mooring I won't be moving for about a month. Should I really remove the Kevin and fit a generator?!

 

Perhaps Kevin will help you find a bit of space for a genny in your engine room...

 

ditchcrawler, on 15 Jan 2017 - 1:29 PM, said:

Are all the engine problems sorted with hanging a Travel Power on the front of the Crank?

 

Which engines?

If you mean Beta modified Kubota - then yes, they now have a kit for those engine that still have a power take off to take the load via that spline instead of the domestic services (water pump and alternator). New engines supplied with TP will (obviously) have the modification.

 

For any other manufacturer - I couldn't possible say.

[dmr]

 

 

It seems a little clumsy though, to burn diesel to run the alternator to produce unregulated AC to be stepped up to regulated 240Vac to be rectified and stepped back down to 16Vdc for equalising, dunnit!

Other ways are just as clumsy though.

 

The whole TravelPower concept feels a bit clumsy, especially as full power is not available at very low revs like when getting into a lock. A huge alternator and inverter feels more elegant but having now lived with a TravelPower for 10 years its one of those that just works and would be hard to do without. A 12 volt alternator producing 3.5kW would be really clumsy. Don't worry about all this AC-DC-AC-DC conversion stuff, the electrons don't care.

 

and I think your just jealous because that little engine of yours could never drive a TravelPower, I think you should upgrade to a proper engine a K2 would do it.

 

..............Dave

[Robbo]

The whole TravelPower concept feels a bit clumsy, especially as full power is not available at very low revs like when getting into a lock. A huge alternator and inverter feels more elegant but having now lived with a TravelPower for 10 years its one of those that just works and would be hard to do without. A 12 volt alternator producing 3.5kW would be really clumsy. Don't worry about all this AC-DC-AC-DC conversion stuff, the electrons don't care.

 

and I think your just jealous because that little engine of yours could never drive a TravelPower, I think you should upgrade to a proper engine a K2 would do it.

 

..............Dave

What happens if the travel power can't provide the power the charger is asking for because you need to travel at low revs?

[dmr]

What happens if the travel power can't provide the power the charger is asking for because you need to travel at low revs?

 

dunno, I would hope it just waits till there is more power and gets going again. Sadly almost no manufacturers specify how their stuff copes with low voltages (brown outs?), though I suspect with globalisation a bit more thought is now given to this as stuff will be sold in parts of the world that don't have good mains electricity. Could this be the only good thing about globalisation?

Our recently replaced washing machine, and the breadmaker of a few years back both cope very well, but the originals used to get into a right mess.

 

..............Dave

[MtB]

 

The whole TravelPower concept feels a bit clumsy, especially as full power is not available at very low revs like when getting into a lock. A huge alternator and inverter feels more elegant but having now lived with a TravelPower for 10 years its one of those that just works and would be hard to do without. A 12 volt alternator producing 3.5kW would be really clumsy. Don't worry about all this AC-DC-AC-DC conversion stuff, the electrons don't care.

 

and I think your just jealous because that little engine of yours could never drive a TravelPower, I think you should upgrade to a proper engine a K2 would do it.

 

..............Dave

 

 

Well they might be telling YOU that, but I bet it isn't what they say to each other in the pub after work...

 

You're right about the K2, I've been keeping a weather eye open for one for about a decade now but went for the K1 as it was there and available.

 

I think the only way to get one now is to buy a boat with one, hook it out, fit something else and sell it on...

[OldGoat]

dmr, on 15 Jan 2017 - 4:10 PM, said:

 

The whole TravelPower concept feels a bit clumsy, especially as full power is not available at very low revs like when getting into a lock. A huge alternator and inverter feels more elegant but having now lived with a TravelPower for 10 years its one of those that just works and would be hard to do without. A 12 volt alternator producing 3.5kW would be really clumsy. Don't worry about all this AC-DC-AC-DC conversion stuff, the electrons don't care.

 

and I think your just jealous because that little engine of yours could never drive a TravelPower, I think you should upgrade to a proper engine a K2 would do it.

 

..............Dave

 

 

Robbo, on 15 Jan 2017 - 4:13 PM, said:

What happens if the travel power can't provide the power the charger is asking for because you need to travel at low revs?

 

 

dmr, on 15 Jan 2017 - 4:36 PM, said:

 

dunno, I would hope it just waits till there is more power and gets going again. Sadly almost no manufacturers specify how their stuff copes with low voltages (brown outs?), though I suspect with globalisation a bit more thought is now given to this as stuff will be sold in parts of the world that don't have good mains electricity. Could this be the only good thing about globalisation?

Our recently replaced washing machine, and the breadmaker of a few years back both cope very well, but the originals used to get into a right mess.

 

..............Dave

 

The TP may appear clumsy but that's because it was never designed for our canal system with frequent stop starts. Instead it was designed more with seagoing boats or commercial vehicles.

I had an earlier device - SeaPower - that delivered useful power at low revs: but we never intended to use it when travelling.

If 'you' want continuous power then something like Beta's PropGen is the correct animal. Coupled with hospital silencer or wet exhaust it's impressive in the noise (or lack therof) department. However it's quite expensive.

[WotEver]

 

I think the only way to get one now is to buy a boat with one, hook it out, fit something else and sell it on...

Aren't you guilty of having a Beta kicking around?

[mrsmelly]

Are all the engine problems sorted with hanging a Travel Power on the front of the Crank?

 

I have no problems with my tavel power and I dont think they realy do damage main bearings but of course may do at high engine hours. This is my second boat with a travel power and I rate them so highly its high on my wants list when changing boats. On this boat even at very low revs the power output is fine. I have owned black and silver box variants.

Did you ever do an energy Audit or you may know the answer from experience, but how much over capacity did you have in your batteries when they were new. I just wondered how deeply you were discharging them for in say the first year.

 

I have never done a n audit mainly because I usualy buy secondhand boats so inherit their set up. This boat has 4 times 110 amp hour jobbies and I probably need 3 for my useage so dont realy go below 12.2 ever. I had considered 5 but would still not get 2 days without charging so I think staying with 4 is my best bet. All our boats and needs are of course different.

[MtB]

 

I have no problems with my tavel power and I dont think they realy do damage main bearings but of course may do at high engine hours.

 

 

Tim, that isn't the problem with some travel power installations. AIUI at some random point in time the TP pulley rattles itself loose on the crankshaft spigot, and by the time you notice the crafkshaft nose has been extensively damaged so you can't just bolt on a new pulley.

 

The fix is to remove the engine and fit a new crankshaft, and hope it doesn't happen again!

 

I may have some details wrong but this is the overall picture.

[mrsmelly]

 

 

Tim, that isn't the problem with some travel power installations. AIUI at some random point in time the TP pulley rattles itself loose on the crankshaft spigot, and by the time you notice the crafkshaft nose has been extensively damaged so you can't just bolt on a new pulley.

 

The fix is to remove the engine and fit a new crankshaft, and hope it doesn't happen again!

 

I may have some details wrong but this is the overall picture.

 

Thanks for that Mike I have never realy looked into it and thanks for that info I will have my instalation looked at toot sweet to hopefuly put my mind at rest and will research it more for future reference.

[MtB]

 

Thanks for that Mike I have never realy looked into it and thanks for that info I will have my instalation looked at toot sweet to hopefuly put my mind at rest and will research it more for future reference.

 

 

I don't think looking at it will help.

 

The problem arises with one or two specific models of Beta engine IIRC. I think the Beta 43 is a prime culprit. I've an idea there is a new crankshaft pulley available now with loads of extra damping if you have one of the offending engines. Would be a Good Idea to check if you have an engine associated with this failure and approach Beta for some advice if you have...

P.S. I think Beta are inclined to be rather coy about this problem unless you approach them already fully informed, for obvious reasons. Plenty of info here on the forum.

[mrsmelly]

 

 

I don't think looking at it will help.

 

The problem arises with one or two specific models of Beta engine IIRC. I think the Beta 43 is a prime culprit. I've an idea there is a new crankshaft pulley available now with loads of extra damping if you have one of the offending engines. Would be a Good Idea to check if you have an engine associated with this failure and approach Beta for some advice if you have...

P.S. I think Beta are inclined to be rather coy about this problem unless you approach them already fully informed, for obvious reasons. Plenty of info here on the forum.

 

Ahh thanks again. My present set up is on an Isuzu engine my previous was a beta, I may be ok then?

[MtB]

 

Ahh thanks again. My present set up is on an Isuzu engine my previous was a beta, I may be ok then?

 

 

I think you will, but I'm no expert on this. I'm just regurgitating stuff I've noticed in passing. I could easily be wrong so do some searching.

[mrsmelly]

 

 

I think you will, but I'm no expert on this. I'm just regurgitating stuff I've noticed in passing. I could easily be wrong so do some searching.

 

[cuthound]

Tim, that isn't the problem with some travel power installations. AIUI at some random point in time the TP pulley rattles itself loose on the crankshaft spigot, and by the time you notice the crafkshaft nose has been extensively damaged so you can't just bolt on a new pulley.

 

The fix is to remove the engine and fit a new crankshaft, and hope it doesn't happen again!

 

I may have some details wrong but this is the overall picture.

 

Early Beta 43's (pre 2006 I think) cut off the splined crankshaft extension and cut a Woodfruff kettle into the now shorter crankshaft extension to drive all the pulleys. The load of the combined domestic, starter battery and Travelpower pulleys evenually caused the Woodfuff key to come loose.

 

Later ones retain the splined crankshaft extension, and use the splines to drive the pulleys for the domestic, starter battery and Travelpower alternators - a much better solution from an engineering point of view. (The original Kubota engine uses these spines to drive hydraulic pumps etc for mini diggers).

 

My understanding is that the 2006 and later engines do not suffer any issues when driving any Travelpower.

Edited January 15, 2017 by cuthound

[roland elsdon]

I only run the engine to create electricity , and fan heat the boat the forward motion is a damnable nuisance. However it means I pay no duty on my diesel......

[Johny London]

Thanks for all the replies - I'm gonna ignore the battery chat for now...

 

Neil – I’m quite interested in that Kipor you have – I like the price and I’ve heard one running. Having read all the postings I think that for me lpg could be the way. I see you can have the lpg gizmo supplied as a bottle end set up with a bbq point for the generator to hook up to? I’ve never seen a bbq connection but I imagine the bottle sitting in the locker connected to some kind of quick release fitting so the generator can be set up super quick? And as no fuel is in the genny it can be stowed in the stern cabin?

 

Chubby – I’m definitely on board with solar! That’ll come soon but I think there will always be the need for a genny too, sadly – I admit I do like home comforts and I’m prepared to burn fuel to have them

But I’m not sure there is much option to “somehow” upgrade the electrics batts and aternator – other than replacing my knackered battery bank!

 

Old Goat – I’m looking to get a generator in excess of 2kw constant, so maybe not the the Honda 2kw but I saw that Kipor have one a bit more powerful.

 

By the way – I have a 175a alternator, no special management systems, and usually run at tickover unless cruising. It will get the batteries up to 14.48v, maybe 14.5 on a good day. Currently I have to run 2hrs am, 2 hrs pm, as my batteries only hold about 50amps in total! I’m interested in using the victron to give the batteries a “really good” (equalisation?) charge. Never know it might knock a bit more life back into 'em

 

Thanks again for all the great replies – it’s a pity it’s turned into a bit of a battery frenzy again. I’m sure in the future we’ll finally have batteries that “just work” ie like the ones in our phones, but until then the manufacturers are laughing. Oh – and electric engines and charging posts everywhere – how cool would that be? No noises. No smells – well no more than usual anyway

 

PS: Robbo - I have a 175a alternator as well as a smaller one for just the engine battery - at the moment I do need to run the engine some to get hot water, but I will be fitting diesel hot water thing eventually ie Webasto etc, plus for central heating.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Johny London

[cereal tiller]

That's right they get hot when ran for long periods of time when providing the amps so it makes sense to get one that's built for the job. For something you will be using everyday and relying on it makes sense to use a quality product as you get more value for money in the long term. If it's a secondary system and has occasional use then of course it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Agree with you about using an alternator that is right for the job',and most vehicle alts.are not designed for maximum output over prolonged periods

 

Machines like the Lucas type A127 are relatively cheap and can be replaced easily

 

Tested one to destruction which occurred when the Stator reached 140 degrees C ,Soldered joints melted

 

Hence the decision to control the Temperature of the machine,easy to do when installed,removal not always needed

 

The Alternator cannot be made to run too hot as the Field is shut off until the operating temperature is reduced

 

Have heard of ISKRA and others burning out for the same reason,the Lucas type is fine if not allowed to cook itself

 

CT

Edited January 26, 2017 by cereal tiller

[Johny London]

On 15/01/2017 at 09:42, Neil Walker said:

LPG kipor from sail and trail for me too. Came with the regulator on the body of gen but moved it to the bottle and has quick release at gen end so loads less grief to set up. Must get round to working out how many hours out of 13kg gas but defenatly cheaper than petrol.

What's involved in moving the regulator? I've seen the lpg kits for sale anywhere from 50-200 quid and I'm confused as to whats needed, (some seem to come with a new carburetor?) - whether it's worth paying the premium for a genny already converted (seems an extra £250-300) and whether I'd be better off with the lpg thing at the genny or bottle end, for ease of quick set up etc.

I'd like to get an lpg genny asap but too confused as yet!

[Neil Walker]

4 hours ago, Johny London said:

What's involved in moving the regulator? I've seen the lpg kits for sale anywhere from 50-200 quid and I'm confused as to whats needed, (some seem to come with a new carburetor?) - whether it's worth paying the premium for a genny already converted (seems an extra £250-300) and whether I'd be better off with the lpg thing at the genny or bottle end, for ease of quick set up etc.

I'd like to get an lpg genny asap but too confused as yet!

I had the option of Genny or bottle fitted as far as I remember, got it Genny fitted but when it arrived you wind up with all the pipe that end so pita so just unbolted it and jigged up a fitting for the bottle. Had a quick release on the gen so far easier to store. In short just go for a bottle fitting with short pipe on gen. Think that makes sense.....