Living with 12 volts only?

[Catnip King]

Looking at some things in my boat like freesat box the plug says 12v so in theory you can just chop the wire and wire to your batteries for things like that. Same with my cats fountain...(yes they are very privileged)

[bargemast]

You could import this from the States?

 

https://www.amazon.com/The-Laundry-POD-LP001WHT-White/dp/B005FD7Z82

 

Thanks for that link, I see that there are still several other posibilities that don't require electricity.

 

There may be even more tomorrow, many people seem to be busy inventing equipment that need no-or only very little electricity.

 

Peter.

[Alan de Enfield]

Looking at some things in my boat like freesat box the plug says 12v so in theory you can just chop the wire and wire to your batteries for things like that. Same with my cats fountain...(yes they are very privileged)

 

Indeed you can - however when they say 12v they tend to mean 12v, when you have the alternator running, or the battery charger on and you are pushing 14.5v into the batteries and they 'freesat' (or TV, or whatever) goes bang and lets out the magic smoke don't think about claiming on the warranty.

 

You can do it if you get a stabilised voltage supply (a 'black box' that even if you put in 14v just lets 12v 'out')

[nbfiresprite]

I've never heard of a desktop that's run properly off 12v.

 

 

 

It's just a simple task of replacing the PSU with a 12V unit off the shelf. Just google DC-DC ATX PSU

 

ie: http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-12V.htm

Edited October 22, 2016 by nbfiresprite

[Neil2]

Indeed you can - however when they say 12v they tend to mean 12v, when you have the alternator running, or the battery charger on and you are pushing 14.5v into the batteries and they 'freesat' (or TV, or whatever) goes bang and lets out the magic smoke don't think about claiming on the warranty.

 

You can do it if you get a stabilised voltage supply (a 'black box' that even if you put in 14v just lets 12v 'out')

The trouble with the stabilised voltage thingies is they don't always work off a battery running at normal voltage levels, I think they are designed to work with a charging battery,

[Alan de Enfield]

The trouble with the stabilised voltage thingies is they don't always work off a battery running at normal voltage levels, I think they are designed to work with a charging battery,

 

I have not had any issues with the one I bought off Ebay.

 

Plugs into a cigarette lighter socket and happily powers the TV irrespective of engine running or not, on the landline (battery charging) or not, or the Solar charging or not - maybe I was just 'lucky'.

[Arthur Brown]

Most of my 12v to Dell (19.5v) converters work well with a battery on charge or engine running in the car, just they don't work properly at battery discharge voltages.

 

OK it may be easy to find a 12v ATX PSU but at $250+ I'd consider an inverter.

 

 

It's just a simple task of replacing the PSU with a 12V unit off the shelf. Just google DC-DC ATX PSU

 

ie: http://www.powerstream.com/DC-PC-12V.htm

[Tony Brooks]

Most of my 12v to Dell (19.5v) converters work well with a battery on charge or engine running in the car, just they don't work properly at battery discharge voltages.

 

OK it may be easy to find a 12v ATX PSU but at $250+ I'd consider an inverter.

 

 

I think I agree with the second point especially as even if you are 100% 12V visitors may well not be. Also much less volt drop on long mains runs than 12V ones.

[blackrose]

Yes it's perfectly possible to live on a boat with 12v only, but I can't really see any advantages in doing so. Having a 240v system on a boat doesn't mean you have to use it and in my experience the more independent systems (heating, hot water, electrical) that you have onboard the better.

[Bee]

12 volt will do everything you need, it can be a very simple system, just a couple of batteries and a cheap 300watt inverter for cordless drills and phone etc. that's what we do for 3 months of the year. However it might not do everything you want, washing machine, kettle, and so on and so on. If you want 240 then its going to cost, big charger, big inverter, lots of wires, alternator, and a big pile of batteries, Batteries are a problem, they are expensive, have a finite life and like to be kept charged, odd cells fail, it is really not a good idea to renew one at a time, every few years the whole expensive lot need to be replaced. If I started again I would just have 12 (maybe 24) volt on the boat, a bit of solar to keep stuff charged and a little generator.

[bargemast]

Yes it's perfectly possible to live on a boat with 12v only, but I can't really see any advantages in doing so. Having a 240v system on a boat doesn't mean you have to use it and in my experience the more independent systems (heating, hot water, electrical) that you have onboard the better.

 

That's absolutely true, if one systems fails, you'll always have a back up.

 

Peter.

[Iain_S]

Yes it's perfectly possible to live on a boat with 12v only, but I can't really see any advantages in doing so. Having a 240v system on a boat doesn't mean you have to use it and in my experience the more independent systems (heating, hot water, electrical) that you have onboard the better.

 

^^^^^^^

This.

 

Copperkins (a shared boat) was 12V only for a long time, except for some owners bringing a small invertor for charging various small items. Eventually, a 3kW pure sine invertor was fitted, mainly to run the hoover. We never found a really good 12V one.

 

Kelpie runs a similar system. The invertor is only powered up when needed for hoovering, running the washing machine, or power tools. Everything else is 12V.

[ditchcrawler]

12 volt will do everything you need, it can be a very simple system, just a couple of batteries and a cheap 300watt inverter for cordless drills and phone etc. that's what we do for 3 months of the year. However it might not do everything you want, washing machine, kettle, and so on and so on. If you want 240 then its going to cost, big charger, big inverter, lots of wires, alternator, and a big pile of batteries, Batteries are a problem, they are expensive, have a finite life and like to be kept charged, odd cells fail, it is really not a good idea to renew one at a time, every few years the whole expensive lot need to be replaced. If I started again I would just have 12 (maybe 24) volt on the boat, a bit of solar to keep stuff charged and a little generator.

Inverter, that's back to 230 volts AC and a 300 watt one will be dragging probably 30 amp when flat out

[Robbo]

 

I have a Sterling Combi Pro S 2500W inverter 70A charger, which is the epitomy of inneficiency with the inverter on 24/7, (it uses 4A doing nothing!!). There is a facility to have it on a stand by type of setting, but it wont fire up unless a certain amount of power is demanded... so a toothbrush, a shaver, a mobile phone, wont power it up.

 

Which inverter charger would you suggest as being quite efficient at the same time as providing at least/around 2500W and 70A.

My 14 year old multiplus does 2000W and 120a and uses less than a amp when doing nothing. The newer 3000/120a ones are the same.

[valrene9600]

Hi all,

 

I have been looking into various options for living aboard for a while now, and ideally we would like to live with as little energy usage as possible,whilst still having most of the creature comforts we are used to. I guess this is a compromise that most people make.

 

We don't watch a great deal of TV, internet is more our thing. I know I can set up a pc to run off 12 volts and that you can get washing machines and fridges that do the same, so I think most gadgets are covered.

 

I was wondering how it is practical to use purely 12 volt appliances, compared with the convenience of a 240v set up.

 

I would be installing some sort of solar array and charge controller, don't know quite what yet as I am just at the planning stage.

 

Is using purely 12 volts a viable option?

 

Has anyone got experience of living just using 12 volts?

 

Many Thanks

Are you talking of using only a 12v supply to power an appliance or do you mean plugging say a small inverter into the 12v supply and powering a mains gadget that way.

If you don't want any mains voltages on the boat you will as has been said have no success with say a washing machine powered by 12v.

Living a basic 12v life afloat is possible but you will have to use mains facilities on shore. So a trip to the laundry will use mains but it won't be on the boat.

All depends on the sort of lifestyle you prefer.

Good luck and happy boating be it 12 or 230volts.

[valrene9600]

The trouble with the stabilised voltage thingies is they don't always work off a battery running at normal voltage levels, I think they are designed to work with a charging battery,

Mine just allows 12v to pass into the tv. Even when charging and batteries are reading 14.8 or briefly 15.0 nothing in 11 years has happened to the tv.

Some folk say chopping off the power pack and plugging the cable directly into the boats 12v system will do no harm but for a few quid why not use a stabilised supply cheaper than a new tv.

[Alan de Enfield]

Are you talking of using only a 12v supply to power an appliance or do you mean plugging say a small inverter into the 12v supply and powering a mains gadget that way.

 

 

The original question :

 

"I was wondering how it is practical to use purely 12 volt appliances"

 

I think almost every answer has agreed that one could 'survive', solely on 12v, but in order to maintain"..most of the creature comforts we are used to.."

then it would be advantages to have an inverter available for the 'luxuries in life' (Hoover, washing machine etc)

[valrene9600]

Well cost of wiring your boat with 12v vs 240v will be much more money because of thicker wires Inverters are quite efficient now so I don't see the need for only living with 12v.

Sometimes it's not cost but the fact people just like very basic. I can understand that, even though I prefer a little comfort, each to their own.

[valrene9600]

The original question :

 

"I was wondering how it is practical to use purely 12 volt appliances"

 

I think almost every answer has agreed that one could 'survive', solely on 12v, but in order to maintain"..most of the creature comforts we are used to.."

then it would be advantages to have an inverter available for the 'luxuries in life' (Hoover, washing machine etc)

Just trying to be quite sure of the question asked. Perhaps some folk are happy to live without the creature comforts in fact I know some that do including candles, no fridge etc. Ott for me but to everyone freedom to live as they wish.

[Sea Dog]

When I first read the original post, I wasn't sure whether the OP wasn't under the impression that the power used at 12 volts was somehow less than that used at 240 volts (and I'm not thinking just inverter efficiency being the difference). He did say he wanted all mod cons, so it's not a simple 'will I be able to manage with just a 12 volt supply' lifestyle question.

 

We've probably answered all permutations now anyway, but it would be interesting to know.

[mross]

Cordless vacuums, like the Dyson can be charged from 12V. Most phones charge via a USB lead and my laptop (ASUS transformer) also does. So inverter is only needed for the missus to do her hair.

[PaddingtonBear]

We live perfectly happily :0 for weeks on end with one battery and a dynamo but as has been said each to there own.

Edited October 23, 2016 by PaddingtonBear

[Inverted]

Thanks for all the replies, looking at them makes me realise that I perhaps worded my initial question a little vaguely.

 

One of my main concerns would be efficiency of any appliance we may have. I incorrectly assumed that 12v would be inherently more efficient that 240 volts.

I also want to have the option to CC in the future without being reliant on a shore hook up

 

I do like the idea of having a 12 volt system with a decent battery bank and inverter, and the suggestion in one of the posts to have a backup or alternatives.

One thing we have decided on is to have a multifuel stove with a back boiler and a separate diesel heater like a webasto to provided heating and hot water.

We would boil the kettle either on top of the multifuel stove or the hob, which would elimante one power hungry device.

 

I think a twintub would probably suit our needs, we don't use a tumble drier anyway so I think we can rule that out.

I can build a pc/desktop to run off 12volts or use a tablet for most things internet related so that shouldn't be an issue. One of my hobbies is PCs/Linux, so I may build a Raspberry Pi based system for the boat.

 

When I said creature comforts I didn't really explain what I meant, and I suppose creature comforts can vary from one person to the next. Creature comforts for me often just includes a roaring fire, a good book or album and a decent single malt

We're not too bothered about TV, we have more channels that we watch as it is and often find ourselves watching things using catchup so we would probably go down the netflix/youtube route.

 

We're far more likely to listen to the radio than watch the telly. A definite creature comfort would be to have a decent turntable on board so I can keep my vinyl.

 

So that leaves the fridge, I have seen another thread on fridges so I'm going to head over there to read it rather than go into it here.

 

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. The discussion has been very informative, given me lots to ponder over.

 

[Neil2]

Inverter, that's back to 230 volts AC and a 300 watt one will be dragging probably 30 amp when flat out

 

Surely that's very unlikely, inverters aren't 100% efficient are they? I would have thought 20 amps would be the maximum a cheap 300w inverter could pull from the battery.

 

But it's a good way of illustrating the point that if you step into the world of high voltage to power mains appliances you can quickly exhaust your power generating and storage equipment.

 

That's why I resist the temptation to go any further than a basic 300w unit, in a way it's really just an "adapter" to run things that are low consumption but not 12v friendly.

Thanks for all the replies, looking at them makes me realise that I perhaps worded my initial question a little vaguely.

 

One of my main concerns would be efficiency of any appliance we may have. I incorrectly assumed that 12v would be inherently more efficient that 240 volts.

I also want to have the option to CC in the future without being reliant on a shore hook up

 

I do like the idea of having a 12 volt system with a decent battery bank and inverter, and the suggestion in one of the posts to have a backup or alternatives.

One thing we have decided on is to have a multifuel stove with a back boiler and a separate diesel heater like a webasto to provided heating and hot water.

We would boil the kettle either on top of the multifuel stove or the hob, which would elimante one power hungry device.

 

I think a twintub would probably suit our needs, we don't use a tumble drier anyway so I think we can rule that out.

I can build a pc/desktop to run off 12volts or use a tablet for most things internet related so that shouldn't be an issue. One of my hobbies is PCs/Linux, so I may build a Raspberry Pi based system for the boat.

 

When I said creature comforts I didn't really explain what I meant, and I suppose creature comforts can vary from one person to the next. Creature comforts for me often just includes a roaring fire, a good book or album and a decent single malt

We're not too bothered about TV, we have more channels that we watch as it is and often find ourselves watching things using catchup so we would probably go down the netflix/youtube route.

 

We're far more likely to listen to the radio than watch the telly. A definite creature comfort would be to have a decent turntable on board so I can keep my vinyl.

 

So that leaves the fridge, I have seen another thread on fridges so I'm going to head over there to read it rather than go into it here.

 

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. The discussion has been very informative, given me lots to ponder over.

 

 

Turntable eh?

 

You'll be needing one of those "Tickover" stickers as well then...

[Robbo]

Thanks for all the replies, looking at them makes me realise that I perhaps worded my initial question a little vaguely.

 

I think a twintub would probably suit our needs, we don't use a tumble drier anyway so I think we can rule that out.

I can build a pc/desktop to run off 12volts or use a tablet for most things internet related so that shouldn't be an issue. One of my hobbies is PCs/Linux, so I may build a Raspberry Pi based system for the boat.

 

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. The discussion has been very informative, given me lots to ponder over.

 

One of the best things you can do is too make a power usage sheet, and decide how your going to charge the batteries effectively.. it doesn't really matter if you use 30ah's or 200ah's a day it's charging the batteries to 100% on a regular occasion that's key.

 

There is a chap on here that's designed a monitoring system using a Pi..

Edited October 23, 2016 by Robbo