Shower weak pressure...

[Dave Payne]

So my shower is weak, really weak, i can spit harder!

 

It has no pump, only relies on the main hot water pump, which is at the opposite end of the boat.

 

Guess adding a second pump closer to the shower will not really do anything, so the only thing i can think off is changing to a stronger pump, is this sensible, will i encounter problems with taps and pipes and stuff?

[Guest]

So my shower is weak, really weak, i can spit harder!

 

It has no pump, only relies on the main hot water pump, which is at the opposite end of the boat.

 

Guess adding a second pump closer to the shower will not really do anything, so the only thing i can think off is changing to a stronger pump, is this sensible, will i encounter problems with taps and pipes and stuff?

 

Have you descaled the shower head?

[Dave Payne]

No need, fitted a new one..

 

To be fair the older one worked better, but it was rubbish, i fitted one of those wide ones that adjusts so i can blast my back.

 

In my head it seems simple, if i have a 1 bar pump at the minute, change it for a 2 bar, but not sure what this means for pipes?

[Robbo]

What's the pump? Is it near the tank? Your PRV valve on your calorifier may be the limiting factor on the pressure of the pump you can go to, but I'll be surprised if it's anything less than 3bar anyhow and this is usually what pump pressure is around.

[Guest]

No need, fitted a new one..

 

To be fair the older one worked better, but it was rubbish, i fitted one of those wide ones that adjusts so i can blast my back.

 

In my head it seems simple, if i have a 1 bar pump at the minute, change it for a 2 bar, but not sure what this means for pipes?

 

Just thought I'd ask sometimes the simplest things are worth checking first and this has cured shower strength problems I have had in the past.

[bottle]

Pressure and flow

[Dave Payne]

What's the pump? Is it near the tank? Your PRV valve on your calorifier may be the limiting factor on the pressure of the pump you can go to, but I'll be surprised if it's anything less than 3bar anyhow and this is usually what pump pressure is around.

 

 

Will have to look later when back on board, its about ten feet from the tank, its actually two pumps, i dont understand the pipes as they both feed into each other, and both hot and cold feed into both, and it has a red little tank next to them...

[MtB]

Do you have a calorifier for hot water or a Morco?

[Sea Dog]

Will have to look later when back on board, its about ten feet from the tank, its actually two pumps, i dont understand the pipes as they both feed into each other, and both hot and cold feed into both, and it has a red little tank next to them...

Dave, just as a baseline so you know that your system doesn't need to be made more complex to achieve what you are seeking, I have one Jabsco fresh water pump, 2 feet from the fw tank in the bow, pressurising both cold water and hot water. Hot water is a 55lt Surecal vertical tank, midships next to the shower cubicle so about 30ft from the pump. I can't tell you the settings cos I'm not on the boat today, but the flow and pressure in my shower are both lovely.

[MtB]

I have to say, with my Morco on full flame setting the flow and pressure are excellent too. Temperature is unstable though as the gas burner flip-flops on and off.

 

Setting it to low flame gets rid of this effect at cost of a slower (but adequate) flow shower. This is no hardship as each tank refill lasts twice as long, along with the gas bottles...

[alan_fincher]

 

 

Will have to look later when back on board, its about ten feet from the tank, its actually two pumps, i dont understand the pipes as they both feed into each other, and both hot and cold feed into both, and it has a red little tank next to them...

 

Being an ex hire boat, you probably have two pumps to give some redundancy, and keep things flowing at least a bit if one stops working.

 

Do you know whether one of your pumps is operating, or both are contributing to the flow.

 

The "little red tank" will likely be an accumulator. Is there just a single pipe to it? If working correctly it has an air reservoir in it, designed to even out the delivery from the pump(s) and stop them cycling on and off for every dribble of water you take out of a tap, or for a loo flush. If the pump(s) don't cut in instantaneously every time at the immediate moment you open a tap, it is doing at least part of its job.

 

I'm doubtful your pump(s) will only have a 1 Bar cut out - I would say they are far more likely to be more like twice this figure, unless you have evidence otherwise.

[Chewbacka]

If it is a little parmax pump it will cut-off at 1.7bar - which I have.

It works the shower just fine for us, but it could not be described as a power shower - which uses too much water.

 

To better understand your concern, I would put the shower head into a bucket and time how long it takes to fill to the 10L/2 gall point.

Then look at the pump spec. If the flow is way down there is a restriction - for example miles of 10mm or 15mm pipe, but if the flow is about right for your pump, then either you need to adjust your expectation or get a bigger pump or put a second in parallel with the first to boost the flow.

 

If there is a restriction, check that there aren't any valves half turned of to intentionally limit the flow to the shower as a water saving feature.

[Top cat]

I replaced our 10.7lpm 30psi Sureflow with a 11lpm 25psi Jabsco and the flow dropped from not quite enough to pathetic. So in my case pressure is more important than flow. I considered using the higher pressure verion of the Jabsco but was too high for the 3 bar of my pressure relief valve. I didn't change the relief vavle as I have no idea what the max for the calorifier is.

So to go back to the OPs question, it looks like a pump with a higher pressure could help but dont exceed the pressure on your PRV.

 

Top Cat

[alan_fincher]

....................but if the flow is about right for your pump, then either you need to adjust your expectation or get a bigger pump or put a second in parallel with the first to boost the flow.

 

OP says he already has two pumps, so if both are working in unison that shouldn't be the problem

 

 

 

Will have to look later when back on board, its about ten feet from the tank, its actually two pumps, i dont understand the pipes as they both feed into each other, and both hot and cold feed into both, and it has a red little tank next to them...

 

However we do need to know both are working, a question I have already asked him.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually reading it again Dave needs to explain whether "they both feed into each other" means they are "in series" or "in parallel". i could undertand the latter, but the former would make little sense to me.

 

Picture to include all the pipes associated with them, maybe, Dave?

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by alan_fincher

[frangar]

I have a Jabsco parmax 4 which has a 25 psi cut out & a 16 litre/min flow.....I also have a shower head with an eco setting which is supposed to save water.....and my shower is better than the 4 bar pumped shower at my mothers!

 

Mines fed by a calorifier....all pipe work is 15mm

 

I never see the point of fitting small water pumps.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[alan_fincher]

Dave,

 

Can you also answer MTB's question about what the source of the hot water is, (e.g. Morco instantaneous heater, or calorifier).

 

I'm guessing that a fairly recent ex hire boat doesn't use a Morco, but can you confirm what you are using, please?

 

Also those photos of twin pumps and pipework associated with them.......

[Dave Payne]

Sorry didnt look last night, got distracted by the greyhound pub!

 

The hot water is from a calorifier, the two pumps both kick in, one seems to kick in first then the other if you leave tap/shower on, i would guess from the sound that one is bigger than the other, ill try and get a photo tonight, its a bit tricky as i have built them into the bottom of a kitchen cupboard with shelf's above so need to remove everything to get at them.

 

The little red tank has one pipe leading into it, the pumps never really kick in on their own and usually take a few seconds of turning a tap on to kick in, not at all if you keep the tap turned down low.

[alan_fincher]

Yep, the red tank is an accumulator then, and from your description, doing what it it is intended to do, at least to some degree, though often they can be tweake to make them perform better. However it doesn't affect your problem here, if flow at the shower head is consistently poor.

 

If you already have two pumps, but are considering a replacement, what will you replace? One, the other, or both? And if "both" with one pump or two?

 

More information about current set up needed to be able to advise, but if you already have two pumps, both working, I can't really see how going down to one will make things better.

As "bottle" says it is not just about pressure it is about flow rates, and two pumps ought to mean the latter is already better than most people have.

[Stilllearning]

It may also be worth looking to see if there are any inline filters fitted, and to check them for blockages.

[Tony Brooks]

Just hat I was about to write. A strainer or restrictor can sometimes be found where the hose screws onto the fixed fitting.

[Chewbacka]

As I suggested earlier, time how long it takes to fill a 2 gallon bucket from the shower head to be able to calculate the flow rate, that will help to diagnose the problem

Edited August 13, 2016 by Chewbacka

[David Mack]

Is it just the shower that's slow? What happens if you turn the taps on full?

[Rickent]

Sorry to hijack the thread but the problem i have is this, If i have my taps on anything less than full, the pump cycles on and off constantly. Is this a pump problem or the accumulator.

[WotEver]

Sorry to hijack the thread but the problem i have is this, If i have my taps on anything less than full, the pump cycles on and off constantly. Is this a pump problem or the accumulator.

Accumulator. It's not accumulating

 

Try pumping it up. If it won't retain pressure in the short term then the bladder has probably perished or split. If it loses pressure over the long term then the schrader valve could be leaking.

[Rickent]

I will try and take a look over the next couple of days , work permitting. Looks like a new accumulator might be in order.