Survey failure - worthless boat- any advice?

[nyima77]

Thank you

 

The question we asked ourselves was, if we were potential buyers, knowing what we know, what would we pay for the boat? And the answer was, probably wouldn't touch it, but if we did, not more than £10k. Hopefully we'll be a bit cannier next time and won't make a (more expensive) when we buy again. Plus we've had 4 great years on her which was worth every penny.

 

We can't afford the next one until my OH gets his pension in the autumn, at which point no doubt I'll be back on here for advice.

[keith.]

It is the decision I would have made. Thank you for posting the story. It is how we all learn and in reality not a bad outcome. Everything wears out and in doing so the value falls.

[Neil2]

Admittedly I haven't read every word of this thread but if i have the gist of it believe me, that is a good result.

 

The fact is, no-one knows what the state of this boat's hull is really like, and to do that you would have to get it blasted back to bare metal. That's got to be around £1500 just to find out how bad it is. It might just need some spot welding, it might need overplating, but let's just say best case scenario is we can get it fixed, blacked, and back in the water for a total of £3k. What is a 32' Springer worth these days? I wouldn't be paying more than £15k for an immaculate example so the broker giving you £10k for it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

How many wrong calls can a boat owner make.

 

I can see how the broker who may not be named make such a huge profit.

 

Staggering.

 

 

Frustrated more like. You've been had over big time, despite all the advice.

But there we are. Some people can't be helped.

 

Pretty unhelpful in the circumstances, Mike.

 

I think "nyima77" was pretty realistic in the post about the tough decision they have taken. That decision has now been firmly taken, so you piling on the grief now is hardly helpful.

 

Everybody's circumstances are different, and if somebody decides they would rather cut their loses and move swiftly on, rather than have to work out other ways of handling the situation, and all the grief that that might entail, surely it is their right to do so?

 

The OP has been very honest throughout, including being brave enough to admit where they may have previously gone wrong, and really don't need beating up over it now. I wish them well with putting this experience behind them, and moving on.

 

I hope they are not discouraged by negative posts on here, and are still happy to come back for advice on other boating matters in the future should they want it. I would still be very happy to discuss things with them, but it is not hard to see why some people don't return(!)

[Neil2]

Mike wasn't just being rude, on this occasion he is plain wrong. I don't know what "all the advice" is that Mike refers to as I admit I haven't digested the whole thread but there's simply nothing wrong with the outcome of this from the owner's point of view I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

[MtB]

 

 

 

Take no notice of him, he is doing it to everyone tonight, (well me actually) he'll probably regret it in the morning when he is sober.

 

 

David is right, I regret what i wrote and yes it was too much wine. I apologise to both of you, David and nyima77).

 

I'll edit out my posts if you wish. I haven't done it immediately as it might leave some of the later comments seeming incomprehensible.

[David Schweizer]

 

 

David is right, I regret what i wrote and yes it was too much wine. I apologise to both of you, David and nyima77).

 

I'll edit out my posts if you wish. I haven't done it immediately as it might leave some of the later comments seeming incomprehensible.

 

I know you too well Mike, hence my comment about the morning after. Apology accepted.

[nyima77]

Thanks Mike. We've all done it so no hard feelings. No need to edit, we had a difference, it got sorted.

[MtB]

Very gracious of both of you. Thank you.

 

[wrigglefingers]

Good outcome in all senses, I think, once the issues had become clearer.

 

Once you fall out of love with something, it's better to move on and not regret it too much. I speak from painful experience here.

[Athy]

 

 

Staggering.

Yes, you may well have been!

Edited July 27, 2016 by Athy

[kawaton]

I like this thread.

......most impressed by the honesty and humility displayed!!

Thought I'd share that thought

[bag 'o' bones]

I like this thread.

......most impressed by the honesty and humility displayed!!

Thought I'd share that thought

[Athy]

I like this thread.

......most impressed by the honesty and humility displayed!!

 

Yes, there were a few wet comments.

 

Oh sorry, you said humility.

[Bee]

Just read this thread - been on the boat and out of touch, a lot of boats are built with 4mm steel or thereabouts, tremendously strong, especially if yacht or cruiser shaped, last for years if kept painted, umpteen hugely expensive dutch cruisers are built with 4 - 6 mm steel. Its a narrowboat thing to use great slabs of steel, its really down to keeping paint on it.

[Neil2]

Just read this thread - been on the boat and out of touch, a lot of boats are built with 4mm steel or thereabouts, tremendously strong, especially if yacht or cruiser shaped, last for years if kept painted, umpteen hugely expensive dutch cruisers are built with 4 - 6 mm steel. Its a narrowboat thing to use great slabs of steel, its really down to keeping paint on it.

 

It wasn't the hull thickness per se but the "serious" pitting that caused the surveyor to recommend overplating.

 

I agree hull thickness is over-emphasised in the narrowboat world but the fact is a 2mm pit in a 4mm hull is a big deal whereas a 2mm pit in a 10mm plate isn't.

 

As you say lumpy water boats, especially yachts are built to much finer tolerances but these folk tend to apply proper protection to the steel rather than just slap tar on it and hope for the best. When will folk wake up to the fact that there are much better solutions available these days.

[Sea Dog]

When will folk wake up to the fact that there are much better solutions available these days.

I think when they are convinced that the solution will justify it's cost. All blackings are expensive because of haul out or docking, so whist cheap and cheerful will always prevail for some, it's proven effectiveness that's key, I think. At the cheaper end of the market, still in the hundreds but competitive with bitumen, Keel Black makes great reading, but is too new to back up those claims with evidence on actual narrowboats. After that, we jump to the 5k region, and Zinga gets some recommendations here, but it's early days so also still a risk for the same reasons as Keel Black perhaps. Two pack is probably what you're thinking of, but finding someone to apply it well appears to be a problem according to many posts on here, including a sinking immediately after a grit blast and 2 pack job! Rare, I'll grant, but illustrative of the quality of workmanship issue.

 

This subject is foremost in my mind at the moment as I'd like to go for something other than Rylards at next year's blacking myself, so I for one would be all ears if you can enlighten us Neil.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

It wasn't the hull thickness per se but the "serious" pitting that caused the surveyor to recommend overplating.

 

I agree hull thickness is over-emphasised in the narrowboat world but the fact is a 2mm pit in a 4mm hull is a big deal whereas a 2mm pit in a 10mm plate isn't.

 

As you say lumpy water boats, especially yachts are built to much finer tolerances but these folk tend to apply proper protection to the steel rather than just slap tar on it and hope for the best. When will folk wake up to the fact that there are much better solutions available these days.

 

I think it is more that 'lumpy water boats' tend not to drag their bums along the bottom, or 'grind' their hull sides along a concrete slab every couple of miles (lock walls) or tie up along side steel pilings every evening.

When tying up onto pontoons they tend to be very well protected with big-fat inflatable fenders.

 

Once in the water a 'lumpy water boat' will possibly not touch land again until it is scrapped - even when lifted out it will be with a hoist and lowered into a cradle of some form

[Neil2]

I'm loath to get into this debate again at the end of a long thread that has pretty much run its course.

 

A couple of points though, I do accept that probably the main factor restricting the widespread use of more advanced coatings is the need to get the hull blasted back to bare metal. Not necessarily the expense, but the hassle of it.

 

I have seen and heard reports of many badly corroded hulls where the boat had been "blacked regularly". The folks at Debdale tell a story of one such boat that came in for blasting and the hull ended up resembling a sieve. Apart from the primitive nature of bitumen blacking that stuff can easily disguise the true nature of a steel hull.

 

 

[matty40s]

Here's a boat that was in for blacking last week. Had a hull survey with spot welding of pits recommended, pressure washed and then just as the blacking brush was being used in anger.....

 

 

Internal steel water tank was split (Owner knew)and had been installed wedged up against the hull, which it had worn through almost completely.....luckily the boat was in the dry dock when the last bit of steel gave way.

Edited July 29, 2016 by matty40s

[RLWP]

Here's a boat that was in for blacking last week. Had a hull survey with spot welding of pits recommended, pressure washed and then just as the blacking brush was being used in anger.....

https://youtu.be/snG2rzxF6TE

Internal steel water tank was split (Owner knew)and had been installed wedged up against the hull, which it had worn through almost completely.....luckily the boat was in the dry dock when the last bit of steel gave way.

How do boats know how to do this? Ours was fine until we booked her in for blacking. Suddenly, we had a diesel leak and a new rudder tube

 

Richard

[nyima77]

Just seen that she's back on sale at the original asking price, listed as having a 'recent survey'. And now under offer. I hope whoever's buying gets their own survey.

[alan_fincher]

Just seen that she's back on sale at the original asking price, listed as having a 'recent survey'. And now under offer. I hope whoever's buying gets their own survey.

 

Yes, I saw this - I can't say it surprises me, but I decided not to mention it!

[nyima77]

We've moved on. Or rather, we've moved off.

[ditchcrawler]

I think it was almost bound to happen