Horn signals

[Ray T]

I know this has been aired many times before, but yesterday I had two instances of me using the correct horn signal with no response.

 

Every couple of weeks or so if we are not on a cruise I will take the boat out for a short run. Yesterday I went from one part of the marina to the other. As the marina is in two sections it involves a short run on the GU towards Calcutt.

 

When exiting both parts of the marina I had the engine out of gear and gave one long blast on the horn = "I am here" or

 

. (3) In fog, mist, falling snow, heavy rainstorm or any other conditions similarly restricting visibility whether by night or day, the following signals shall be used:- (a) A power-driven vessel making way through the water shall sound, at intervals of not more than two minutes a prolonged blast. From the General Canal By-Laws.

 

In both cases a boat passed just as my bow was level with the bridge over the entrances, one a private, the other a hire boat, not a reaction to my signal from either of them.

 

When passing a "blind" marina entrance does it not cross peoples minds a boat may be coming out? Rhetorical statement.

 

From my offshore days the use of sound signals is in common usage, why not the cut? Another Rhetorical comment.

 

This is not a "rant" but just an observation.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ray T

[sueb]

I suspect you are one of the very few who know any horn signals. There are not many using them on the canals. I certainly can't remember ever hearing them and I know I never used them because I don't know them.

[nicknorman]

We do of course know the answers to your rhetorical questions but perhaps it is helpful to consider why the events might happen as you describe.

 

Do you know that the boats in question heard your horn? We don't know how loud it is and how loud the other boat's engines were. Some boats have such loud engines that the steerers are almost certainly deaf!

 

Do you know that if the steerers did hear the horn, they were able to "locate" it despite another boat not being in view. Yes you could argue that they should be aware of the marina but with so many folk cruising along in a daydream mode I'm sure a lot aren't.

 

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, you should bear in mind that sounding your horn doesn't give you right of way. Many boaters are car drivers first and foremost, and will have a mentality that since they are on the "main road" and you are coming in from a "side road", you have to give way to them not vice versa. So I think what transpired was not unreasonable. You tooted, edged out, you saw a boat passing, you had to wait until it was past before proceeding. I can't see anything wrong with that sequence of events.

[Thorfast]

It is a bit like asking people who drive cars if they know the correct hand signals for manouvers

 

The short answer to your question and my statement is 99% 'NO'

[Machpoint005]

Although there is a whole raft of horn signals, the only one that has any meaning (in the sense that the other person understands it) is "I am here".

 

If you proceed on the principle that there is an unseen boat around every blind bridge hole, and one passing just as you exit your marina, you will avoid collisions and stress (the latter being the whole point of boating anyway).

It is a bit like asking people who drive cars if they know the correct hand signals for manouvers

 

The short answer to your question and my statement is 99% 'NO'

 

Hand signals were effectively abolished in the 1970s, soon after I took my driving test. There are no "correct" ones.

[Bettie Boo]

If it were me Ray, and I had heard your horn I would have given you a toot back

 

Not sure what Dave would have done, but more than likely he would have as well.

 

We do use our horn for "most" blind spots, not all, and to be honest I don't think we've ever used it when going past a marina entrance, but when we are exiting a marina we do. Silly ol' live isn't it?

[Pluto]

Although there is a whole raft of horn signals, the only one that has any meaning (in the sense that the other person understands it) is "I am here".

 

If you proceed on the principle that there is an unseen boat around every blind bridge hole, and one passing just as you exit your marina, you will avoid collisions and stress (the latter being the whole point of boating anyway).

 

Hand signals were effectively abolished in the 1970s, soon after I took my driving test. There are no "correct" ones.

The incorrect ones often involve one or two fingers.

[Ray T]

"Finally, and perhaps most importantly, you should bear in mind that sounding your horn doesn't give you right of way. Many boaters are car drivers first and foremost, and will have a mentality that since they are on the "main road" and you are coming in from a "side road", you have to give way to them not vice versa. So I think what transpired was not unreasonable. You tooted, edged out, you saw a boat passing, you had to wait until it was past before proceeding. I can't see anything wrong with that sequence of events."

 

Nick, I am well aware of comments, but thank you anyway. I am also aware that I do not have any "right of way" coming out of the marina.

 

No, nothing wrong with the sequence of events at all.

 

This is my horn, electro- mechanical. BTW, it gives a good loud sound:

 

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Ray T

[Paringa]

I can only speak for vessels on the Thames where most don't use their horns...most don't understand...the commercials do. You did your best Ray.

[DHutch]

I assume nobody knows horn signals.

 

However as they largely make sense to the punter even if the exact meaning is lost I tend to go with something about inline.

 

- One short blast; Turning to Right

- Two short blasts; Turning to Left

- One long blast; Coming Through (blind bend/junction)

- Three short blasts; I am panicking and hence in reverse.

- Five or more short blasts; The world is ending.

 

 

Daniel

[nicknorman]

 

However as they largely make sense to the punter

 

The trouble is, most punts don't have horns

[cuthound]

 

Hand signals were effectively abolished in the 1970s, soon after I took my driving test. There are no "correct" ones.

I failed my first driving test in early 1971 because, amongst other things, I tried to impress the examiner by doing an unasked for hand signal. The only problem was that I had forgotten to wind the side window down first!

[mayalld]

We do of course know the answers to your rhetorical questions but perhaps it is helpful to consider why the events might happen as you describe.

 

Do you know that the boats in question heard your horn? We don't know how loud it is and how loud the other boat's engines were. Some boats have such loud engines that the steerers are almost certainly deaf!

 

Do you know that if the steerers did hear the horn, they were able to "locate" it despite another boat not being in view. Yes you could argue that they should be aware of the marina but with so many folk cruising along in a daydream mode I'm sure a lot aren't.

 

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, you should bear in mind that sounding your horn doesn't give you right of way. Many boaters are car drivers first and foremost, and will have a mentality that since they are on the "main road" and you are coming in from a "side road", you have to give way to them not vice versa. So I think what transpired was not unreasonable. You tooted, edged out, you saw a boat passing, you had to wait until it was past before proceeding. I can't see anything wrong with that sequence of events.

 

Now, the last one is one that I often hear advanced when there has been a close shave or collision. "Just because you sounded your horn you don't have right of way".

 

That much is very true, but isn't relevant.

 

Consider what giving a horn signal is all about.

 

You are using your horn to inform other boats of what you intend to do. You sound a long blast, and you are making a statement to all those who hear it;

"I intend to move my boat, but I cannot see whether doing so would cause me to stand into danger".

 

If you hear a horn, and think "well yes he jolly well will stand into danger, because if he does that we will collide", then you answer with a long blast yourself.

 

Or to think of it another way, sounding a long blast is staking a claim for right of way. Other boaters can either accept your claim (by remaining silent), or make a counter-claim, by sounding their own horn.

 

Not sounding your horn, when you KNOW that another boat has sounded to indicate that he is moving in blind is negligent.

[frahkn]

I suspect you are one of the very few who know any horn signals. There are not many using them on the canals. I certainly can't remember ever hearing them and I know I never used them because I don't know them.

Suppose I am approaching a bridge hole on a blind bend and I hear a horn.... what should I do (beside giving a blast in return?

 

I and the other boat could continue cautiously (as we would in any event).

 

We could both stop - what then?

 

I could have heard a car horn (more common near bridges than boat horns in my experience).

 

Frank

[nicknorman]

Now, the last one is one that I often hear advanced when there has been a close shave or collision. "Just because you sounded your horn you don't have right of way".

 

That much is very true, but isn't relevant.

 

Consider what giving a horn signal is all about.

 

You are using your horn to inform other boats of what you intend to do. You sound a long blast, and you are making a statement to all those who hear it;

"I intend to move my boat, but I cannot see whether doing so would cause me to stand into danger".

 

If you hear a horn, and think "well yes he jolly well will stand into danger, because if he does that we will collide", then you answer with a long blast yourself.

 

Or to think of it another way, sounding a long blast is staking a claim for right of way. Other boaters can either accept your claim (by remaining silent), or make a counter-claim, by sounding their own horn.

 

Not sounding your horn, when you KNOW that another boat has sounded to indicate that he is moving in blind is negligent.

I agree with the common sense idea that on hearing another's horn, one should sound one's own. However does it actually say that anywhere (presumably in the bylaws, since the colregs don't have the concept)?

 

It is all very well staking your claim on a common sense presumption but if it not backed up by law/rules you are on to a loser!

Suppose I am approaching a bridge hole on a blind bend and I hear a horn.... what should I do (beside giving a blast in return?

Go flat out so as to be sure of reaching the bridge hole before the other chap?

[DHutch]

I agree with the common sense idea that on hearing another's horn, one should sound one's own. However does it actually say that anywhere (presumably in the bylaws, since the colregs don't have the concept)?

 

Good question.

[cuthound]

Because the original horn on DQ was feeble, I replaced it with this:

 

http://www.marinescene.co.uk/product/8577/ecoblast-airhorn-the-foghorn-that-never-runs-out

 

Now the only problem is that my ears ring after using it!

[Alan de Enfield]

Is it really 'that difficult' to learn the 6 basic signals ?

Is it that difficult for Hire companies to put a copy next to the helm ?

 

To (hopefully assist), just print out this 'picture', laminate it and keep it next to your 'ooter button.

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Machpoint005]

Suppose I am approaching a bridge hole on a blind bend and I hear a horn.... what should I do (beside giving a blast in return?

 

I and the other boat could continue cautiously (as we would in any event).

 

We could both stop - what then?

 

I could have heard a car horn (more common near bridges than boat horns in my experience).

 

Frank

 

Proceed ahead at dead slow and be prepared to stop. Easy as that.

[ditchcrawler]

If it were me Ray, and I had heard your horn I would have given you a toot back

 

Not sure what Dave would have done, but more than likely he would have as well.

 

We do use our horn for "most" blind spots, not all, and to be honest I don't think we've ever used it when going past a marina entrance, but when we are exiting a marina we do. Silly ol' live isn't it?

Before I come out of the marina Diana goes to the bows and looks both ways to check no one is coming, same coming onto the Oxford at Wigrams or joining at Gt Haywood. Ray doesn't say if he was single handed or not.

[Machpoint005]

 

The problem as I see it, Alan, is that although you and I and a few others might know the horn signals, most of the other punters (and boaters) don't and won't.

 

The only horn signal I bother with is no.31 in D (and that should really be called the flute scale IMO)

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The problem as I see it, Alan, is that although you and I and a few others might know the horn signals, most of the other punters (and boaters) don't and won't.

 

 

 

As its is part of the 'rules' on the Inland Waterways to apply sound signals then I see no good reason why punters 'don't or won't' use them.

 

Every boat with a BSS has to have a working horn so it can comply with the requirements of Section 12 (sub-section 12:1 to 12:6).

Not doing so (making the correct sound signal) is against the law and subject to a fine.

[Thorfast]

I bet a large proportion of boat owners, and most hirers, do not know port and starboard.

[Machpoint005]

 

As its is part of the 'rules' on the Inland Waterways to apply sound signals then I see no good reason why punters 'don't or won't' use them.

 

Every boat with a BSS has to have a working horn so it can comply with the requirements of Section 12 (sub-section 12:1 to 12:6).

Not doing so (making the correct sound signal) is against the law and subject to a fine.

 

I agree, there is no good reason. But they still don't or won't.

[mayalld]

Suppose I am approaching a bridge hole on a blind bend and I hear a horn.... what should I do (beside giving a blast in return?

 

I and the other boat could continue cautiously (as we would in any event).

 

We could both stop - what then?

 

I could have heard a car horn (more common near bridges than boat horns in my experience).

 

Frank

 

OK, yes it could be a car horn, but in my experience it is uncommon to find cars sounding their horns for the 4-6 seconds demanded by the BW byelaws. For the most part, it is possible to be reasonably certain that it was a boat horn.

 

The sounding of a long blast by one boater has provided INFORMATION to all the other boaters around. A boat is intending to negotiate a blind bend etc.

 

What you should do is take appropriate action based on that information. That appropriate action might be;

 

1) Decide to stop, as it is clear that you will encounter another boat where you can't pass.

2) Decide that actually it would be difficult to stop and allow somebody else right of way, so sound your own horn.

 

Ignoring the horn, and carrying on cautiously is simply failing to make use of the information that you have