NBTA protest

[gazza]

I didn't say anti-semitic I just couldn't see the jewish relevance. There are some cracking jewish jokes around (often told by jewish people) it just seems that Athy's wasn't one of them

I thought you meant to play the antisemitism card as you said 'not reporting or anything like that'

 

Try the YouTube link for a good Jewish joke. Just after the good gynecological one

 

https://youtu.be/SCwAt4zKjHc

Edited May 11, 2016 by gazza

[magnetman]

The best Jewish joke I heard told by Jewish person

 

A Jewish person and a Chinese person strike up a conversation

 

Before long they're arguing...

 

Jewish man: "You know what? I hate you."

 

Chinese man: "For what?"

 

Jewish man: "Pearl Harbor!"

 

Chinese man: "That was the Japanese! I'm Chinese!"

 

Jewish man: "eh, Japanese, Chinese what's the difference?"

 

Chinese man: "Well, you kow what? I hate you."

 

Jewish man: "For what?!?"

 

Chinese man: "The Titanic!"

 

Jewish man: "An iceberg sunk the Tatanic!"

 

Chinese man: "eh, Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference?"

[Wanderer Vagabond]

No availability. Plenty of boaters could afford £6k Not all of the moorings in the region are six grand a year, mine isn't. But they just never come free, ok one near me is about to become free, but only because the boater died ( I think he may have had that berth 40 years), I'm a noob on my mooring, only 10 years. We think (ok we know) that CRT will price us off. But for now, maybe on our stretch of moorings, its one berth free and up for auction, every other year.

I think that is sort of the nub of the problem, how do CRT square that particular circle in London? The cost of all accomodation in London is outrageous but if CRT were to supply moorings at less than the market rate they would then be subject to criticism for not achieving the best return on their assets. If they supply moorings at the market rate they are profiteering, there is no 'middle ground'. To try to solve London's housing problem by moving to the water is just going to spread the misery wider, what are needed are more genuinely affordable houses in London, something that doesn't look as though it is going to happen any time soon. Perhaps the best result would be for the low paid to abandon London altogether and then see where they get their Care Workers/Baristas/Street Cleaners from. Perhaps there might be the re-emergence of a radical Victorian idea where your employer supplied you with somewhere to live

[magnetman]

I blame Gordon Brown

[gazza]

The best Jewish joke I heard told by Jewish person

A Jewish person and a Chinese person strike up a conversation

Before long they're arguing...

Jewish man: "You know what? I hate you."

Chinese man: "For what?"

Jewish man: "Pearl Harbor!"

Chinese man: "That was the Japanese! I'm Chinese!"

Jewish man: "eh, Japanese, Chinese what's the difference?"

Chinese man: "Well, you kow what? I hate you."

Jewish man: "For what?!?"

Chinese man: "The Titanic!"

Jewish man: "An iceberg sunk the Tatanic!"

Chinese man: "eh, Iceberg, Goldberg, what's the difference?"

 

Very good!

[Hawkmoth]

I support the NBTA campaign though, it's the goalposts being moved like this. People are frightened. Liveaboards aren't rich, it's not so easy to just get a flat. No social housing, agencies need proof of a wage and references from a landlord. How many of us can provide that? I know a lot of zero hours contractors on boats.

I also see this big divide. Retired people who have proper pensions, maybe they have more than one property, just failing to Understand the reality of this younger boater generation. Criticising them. You are really, really lucky to have been born and worked when you did, can't you see that? Why do you hate them so much? They work hard, just like you did. Maybe they don't want to bring their kids up in a dump above a kebab shop ( because thats all you'll get if you're trying to manage on a wage now). No final salary scheme like you had, maybe on zero hours. Can't you see how different it is now? I don't blame people for getting boats, I mean for goodness sake, it's not exactly the easy option is it?

Yes I do completely see that point. I really do feel lucky to have lived through the era of peace and prosperity that I did. But, I did what I did and got where I am today by playing to the rules not bending them and then bleating when I'm found out.

Bob

[bassplayer]

Yes I do completely see that point. I really do feel lucky to have lived through the era of peace and prosperity that I did. But, I did what I did and got where I am today by playing to the rules not bending them and then bleating when I'm found out.

Bob

As I said...continuous loop...

[David Mack]

This seems a little idealistic to my cynical mind. Why would any developer want to create a marina on a Brownfield site in London for an uncertain market when he could erect a mega plaza of astronomically priced apartments and sell them all even before they are built?

And the mega plaza would be able to house far more people than the marina ever could, so would make a bigger contribution to solving London's housing shortage.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

And the mega plaza would be able to house far more people than the marina ever could, so would make a bigger contribution to solving London's housing shortage.

If only!! These mega plazas aren't built for the benefit of anyone in this country, they are built for obnoxious despots to 'legitimately' launder their ill gotten gains through financial shell companies in the British Virgin Islands, certainly not for plebs trying to find somewhere to live in the capital

[onionbargee]

There is not a housing shortage, there is a people oversupply.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

There is not a housing shortage, there is a people oversupply.

So you solve the former by building houses, you can 'solve' the latter by killing people, it doesn't seem to be considered very ethical though

[RLWP]

I think RLWP was challenging your assertion that most people living on boats in London are too poor to afford alternatives. I for one think you may be completely wrong about that.

 

And for the characterisation of those opposed to NBTAs campaign.

 

Richard

[dogless]

The simple truth is that there is a danger of two entrenched camps, battering heads and solving nothing.

 

I suspect that as with all disputes, there can be no winners. What is required is discussion and compromise.

 

I think that whilst C&RT have been backed into an impossible position, the way forward will have to involve some imagination and creative thinking. Something along the lines of identified zones as staging posts for cruisers, whilst also ensuring visitor moorings are separate and available.

 

I do think it is down to C&RT staff to show some empathy, even though the problem has been forced on them.

 

I feel jolly uncomfortable being party to effectively 'outlawing' people for wishing to work and receive education in a particular area. The cycle of arguments and counter arguments has to be broken. Soon I hope.

 

Rog

[magictime]

If I were looking for a London home, a studio flat for £350k still with a ground rent of £6k would make a fully legit resi mooring at £36k seem a bargain.

 

£6k ground rent + c. £18k mortgage payments = c. £24k a year to live in a studio flat

 

(Upfront costs being about the same in either case - a few tens of thousands to put a deposit on the flat, or buy a boat)

 

Hmm... £12k a year doesn't seem to me like a strikingly small premium to pay for the privilege of living on a boat rather than in a flat. On balance, I think I'd rather buy the flat and put my spare £12k a year towards the cost of a boat kept on a leisure mooring somewhere up north.

[StarUKKiwi]

Everyone always did what the EO demanded. But its been drastically changed. Everyone still tries hard to comply, we just suspect the goalposts will continue to move.

 

I suspect that we will run out of second hand boats for people to buy, pretty soon. That might put the kybosh on things.

I agree, there is certainly a view out there that any pre 1980 boat is at the end of its life and we should all be on shiny new boats for our pretty canals for tourists to look out

[Wanderer Vagabond]

I agree, there is certainly a view out there that any pre 1980 boat is at the end of its life and we should all be on shiny new boats for our pretty canals for tourists to look out

I'm not really sold on the idea that post 1980 boats are exactly 'shiny' or 'new'. It is possible to endlessly keep a boat going but as the modern boats age the costs of doing so outweigh the benefits. When I was on the K & A back in 2013 there was a guy on an old boat that clearly needed a lot of work doing to it (it sunk twice over the winter), at what point do you quit?

 

How many pre 1980 cars are still on the road?

[Athy]

 

It didn't supersede it, and the terms aren't "equally accurate" because they mean two different things.

 

A "non-profit-making" company is just a company that doesn't make a profit, e.g. because it's running at a loss.

 

A "not-for-profit company" is a company that's not run for the purpose of making a profit.

Not so.

 

Surely you mean 6000 Pounds/year for a morring in London? Even in Oxfordshire it's 1768/year for an 'agricultural mooring' just to the north of Cropredy - for a 40-foot boat.

I didn't mention London. I moor in Cropredy. It costs about £1,000 per year.

[Arthur Marshall]

Deleted. Was a rant. I'm going to bed instead.

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Arthur Marshall

[Athy]

I didn't say anti-semitic I just couldn't see the jewish relevance. There are some cracking jewish jokes around (often told by jewish people) it just seems that Athy's wasn't one of them

Because Graham had answered a question of mine with another question. Do keep up,.

I agree, there is certainly a view out there that any pre 1980 boat is at the end of its life and we should all be on shiny new boats for our pretty canals for tourists to look out

Good point - but there are quite a few 1930s boats (some owned by CWFers) still afloat, and tourists look at those too. But I agree with you that quite a few '70s survivors should be scuppered.

[bassplayer]

So you solve the former by building houses, you can 'solve' the latter by killing people, it doesn't seem to be considered very ethical though

Or you stop people from being able to buy and leave homes purely for investment purposes. Apparently there are over half a million empty homes in the UK. Over 50000 in London alone.

 

It's greed and lack of sharing again.

 

As regards discussions about how much cheaper it is to live in a boat, there are quite a few reasons for this if you think about it for a few seconds. Very few homeless would prefer a boat over a small studio flat yet it's still used to justify the linear housing estate argument.

[Athy]

. Very few homeless would prefer a boat over a small studio flat.

Is this really true? I have seen no statistics on the subject but I'm very surprised.

[bassplayer]

Is this really true? I have seen no statistics on the subject but I'm very surprised.

No, that bit is an opinion. Don't forget most of us are on this forum because we have an interest in canals and boats so the thought of a boat being your only home might seem attractive.

 

Now I'm going to sound like a stuck record but how many people do you think could live on a boat?

 

I know some people who wouldn't step one foot in a boat due to it's unstable nature and fear of water. Space is very limited. Security fears. Lack of convenient utilites (filling up with water, generation of electicity, emptying toilet, no WiFi, etc).

 

On top of that, those who want to make a financial future for themselves could never see a boat aa being as good investment as bricks and mortar.

[magictime]

Not so.

 

Not the most detailed rebuttal, but... fair enough, having done a bit of Googling, "non-profit-making organisation" (or more often "non-profit organisation") has generally been used pretty much interchangeably with "not for profit organisation". And maybe the latter has become more common than the former - I don't know - in which case maybe it has "superseded" it to some extent.

 

Still, I stand by my basic point that the terms are not "equally accurate" descriptions of those organisations. "Not for profit organisation" spells out that the organisation in question is not run for the purpose of making a profit. "Non-profit-making organisation" doesn't; it just says that the organisation in question is not making a profit.

[Athy]

 

Not the most detailed rebuttal, but... fair enough, having done a bit of Googling, "non-profit-making organisation" (or more often "non-profit organisation") has generally been used pretty much interchangeably with "not for profit organisation". And maybe the latter has become more common than the former - I don't know - in which case maybe it has "superseded" it to some extent.

 

Still, I stand by my basic point that the terms are not "equally accurate" descriptions of those organisations. "Not for profit organisation" spells out that the organisation in question is not run for the purpose of making a profit. "Non-profit-making organisation" doesn't; it just says that the organisation in question is not making a profit.

No, they are synonymous. An organisation which is not making a profit by accident rather than by design is "non-profitable" or, more commonly, "unprofitable". A "Non profit-making" organisation is so on purpose.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Athy

[MtB]

No, they are synonymous.

 

 

When I studied book keeping and accounting back in the day, a notionally profit-making organisation consistently failing to make a profit was at risk of being declared a hobby by the tax office, thereby depriving it of all manner of peripheral tax reliefs. Those reliefs remained available to a formally 'not-for-profit' organaisation.

 

By what term should the former type of organisation should be known, if not 'non-profit-making'?