Licences, boat chaperone, alternator and diesel

[Alan de Enfield]

Ive looked on canalplan.org and that estimates the journey from Cambridge to Roydon as 240 hours. So based on these prices should I budget a little over £430 for diesel? (£1.80 per hour)

 

Canal Plan is an excellent guide, but that is all it is.

Did you go into the 'select parameters' page and reduce your speed (increase the hours) for the time you are going against the flow on the rivers ?

Canal plan does not appear to allow for 'waiting time' whilst waiting to enter locks, or actual locking time.

 

When part of the journey is on rivers it should always be in the back of the mind that even in the Summer, torrential storms can cause the rivers to go into flood (maybe a day or two after the storm) and navigation becomes difficult / impossible.

 

Back to your 'potential boat'.

It is of any age where the insurance company WILL require an out-of-water full survey (unless you insure it TP only)

In view of the type/make of boat and its 'recent' history of 'just a bit of patching' it will in all probability require more extensive plating work. I know of people who have bought a boat 'needing a few patches' which once the work starts have found they need a complete replate and that runs into 'many thousands' - even double figures.

 

In this case the survey is more important than the BSSC. At worse a disasterous BSS fail (gas, fuel, electrical all fail) could cost a fraction of a replate / overplate

 

 

If I really need to be somewhere at a certain time (hospital appointment etc) then I generally allow 'canal plan' +50% for timing. I would rather get there a day early than an hour late. Canals are not the place for anyone 'in a rush', or anyone working to time constraints.

[boathunter]

What's making you rush to buy this boat? There are thousands of them, they are not rare. Vague friend of work colleague selling? If it seems a bargain, it probably isn't, rusty old things always cost more in the end, after which you have a fixed up rusty old thing. That's generally, not particularly boats.

[Arthur Brown]

Always consider the possibility that a move by truck would be possible. A truck move will take a day, but cost a truck day and two cranes. A few companies have a good reputation for moving boats by truck, and with care loading places with crane can be found.

 

Given your professed lack of boat experience, getting a proper survey and being there while it's done would kick start your wisdom, but if you've already paid for the boat it may just tell you how much you cannot afford to pour into it.

 

Having a place to put your boat is important. Most rivers and canals now enforce mooring permissions expensively, all marinas rent out moorings but may have a waiting list. Fewer places let out truly residential moorings with facilities.

 

Getting to learn about your boat's systems Gas Water Electricity etc is essential and may take professional help.

[magictime]

I suspect I'm not alone in being a bit confused about your situation. When you started by saying

 

A narrowboat has almost literally fallen into my lap out of nowhere and without any searching or even planning (I am now of course) about to embark on a life on water

 

- I assumed you were talking about having unexpectedly inherited a boat, or been given one, or won one in a bet, or something. In fact it seems you're just talking about an opportunity to buy a particular boat. How is that a boat "falling into your lap"? Why are you seeing this as some sort of one-off opportunity? There are hundreds of boats for sale at any one time, including plenty of cheap, older "project" boats if you have the money, time and skill to take one on. The chances that the first boat to be pushed under your nose represents some sort of unmissable bargain seems incredibly slim. What am I missing?

 

Not being nosy for its own sake, just concerned (like others) that you may be about to take on a burden you're not prepared for. A surveyor should tell you how much of a burden, of course, but then I'm back to wondering why you're going straight to the expense of a survey on this particular boat without even looking around at what else is out there?

 

Sorry if I appear to be passing judgement and/or pissing on your chips here, but I speak from experience... we snapped up our first (and so far only) boat on Ebay mainly because the price was right and it was moored locally, and although it didn't need any overplating etc. (thank goodness!), even those "little" jobs soon add up. With hindsight, we'd have saved money in the medium term by shopping around for a (more expensive) boat that needed less doing.

[Keeping Up]

But have you heard of these things sinking often?

Yes. Our Harborough sank once before we got it, and at least twice after we sold it. The first was because the edge where the sides met the bottom had worn right through, and second was the result of simple neglect when it was abandoned after a fire, and the third was because the bottom had rusted right through.

[Graham Davis]

It came out of the water and was reblacked and had new anodes in 2014

 

Sorry, but that proves very little. Poor maintenance and possible galvanic corrosion could still have caused problems, and you don't know what the condition was like before it was blacked.

 

You do know the acronym B.O.A.T?

[MtB]

I would suggest that you pay particular attention to the hull condition in ALL areas, especially the water line and the swim.

I would also be looking very carefully at the joint between the fibreglass top and the hull, as these has been very prone to leaks and corrosion.

When were the anodes last replaced? If not recently that could be a cause of more corrosion.

 

This could all too easily turn into a hole in the water in which you throw endless money!

 

 

Could? It's already started with the OP being advised to get a survey, which will cost the thick end of £600 just to find out if he ought to walk away or proceed with the deal!

 

And then there is the cost of moving the boat, diesel, licencing, dealing with the electrical problems, along with all the hidden reasons for it being cheap/free in the first place.

[alan_fincher]

It's definitely a standard narrowboat in width and I'm pretty sure it's fibre glass roof

 

You are aware that a GRP top on a narrow boat of that age makes it very much less desirable to many people, and hence the value is generally far less than a steel topped one of similar age?

 

Like others, I'm confused whether you are in some circumstance where this boat is coming to you at very little cost, so you don't stand to lose a lot if it goes wrong, or whether you are actually buying it for what you consider to be a good price. I'm not intending to sound rude, but if the latter, you are not really giving me the impression that you know enough about 30 year old GRP topped narrow boats to know what a good price would be. (I hope I'm not being too blunt here!).

[bizzard]

Its only about 25 miles from Cambridge to B.Stortford by road. It might be cheaper to transport it here, dump it in the Stort at Sawbridgeworth and sail it down to Roydon, about 10 miles.

[MtB]

Its only about 25 miles from Cambridge to B.Stortford by road. It might be cheaper to transport it here, dump it in the Stort at Sawbridgeworth and sail it down to Roydon, about 10 miles.

 

A round figure of about £1k, including the cranes at each end, say?

[FadeToScarlet]

Ah! Is it called Moon Under Water by any chance? (Edit: Hmm, an SR3 with a GRP top, I'm trying to work out which it is...)

 

I also moor in Cambridge.

 

If it is licenced for the River Cam, it is also licenced for the Ouse and the Nene, because there is an arrangement between the Conservators and the EA, so you can use EA waterways. You don't need to buy an EA licence.

 

The licence may have just been renewed, so if you don't need it after May you might be able to get a partial refund from the Conservancy . I wouldn't bank on it, though, because they can only do yearly licences.

 

You will then need a CRT licence, to cover you from Northampton, down the GU to London, and then the Lea and Stort.

Edited April 30, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[junior]

Everyone was nice to me when I rocked up on the forum being a massive dinlo four years ago.

 

You didn't mention the dreaded 'L' word, which seems to bring out a different attitude in responses from a whole load of people who've never boated there.

Edited April 30, 2016 by junior

[FadeToScarlet]

2. And, this might sound odd, because this has all happened suddenly it's going to be very hard for me to take the time of work to get it to Roydon. I've been told this will take approximately 2 weeks. Is there a chance I could pay someone a nominal fee to at least get it within easy commuting distance for me to take over? Does that sound feasible? Without being able to do that I fear I may not be able to take up the deal. I am critically needed at work over the coming weeks.

 

I'd be happy to get it part of the way, I've delivered a few boats to Cambridge but not any the other way. I've got a fairly free week coming up, so could get it past Northampton and onto the GU, for only travel costs, diesel costs, and a bit of beer money, but I couldn't commit to the whole trip I'm afraid as the tripboat I skipper is getting busier as we get into spring. Edited April 30, 2016 by FadeToScarlet

[ditchcrawler]

Ah! Is it called Moon Under Water by any chance? (Edit: Hmm, an SR3 with a GRP top, I'm trying to work out which it is...)

 

I also moor in Cambridge.

 

If it is licenced for the River Cam, it is also licenced for the Ouse and the Nene, because there is an arrangement between the Conservators and the EA, so you can use EA waterways. You don't need to buy an EA licence.

 

The licence may have just been renewed, so if you don't need it after May you might be able to get a partial refund from the Conservancy . I wouldn't bank on it, though, because they can only do yearly licences.

 

You will then need a CRT licence, to cover you from Northampton, down the GU to London, and then the Lea and Stort.

Dose that mean it will also have a BSC then as the EA tie in with Cam?

[Alan de Enfield]

Dose that mean it will also have a BSC then as the EA tie in with Cam?

 

"Conservators of The River Cam" do require a BSSC as they are part of AINA.

 

However - you may be correct and being on the Cam (at Cambridge ?) the boat may well also have a BSC.

[ditchcrawler]

 

"Conservators of The River Cam" do require a BSSC as they are part of AINA.

 

However - you may be correct and being on the Cam (at Cambridge ?) the boat may well also have a BSC.

This is turning into a SG verses SG discussion

[junior]

Is it BSS, BSSC or BSC?

[ditchcrawler]

Is it BSS, BSSC or BSC?

Or boat MOT

[Alan de Enfield]

According to the 'Boat safety Scheme' website

 

The certificate 'awarded' is a BSSC (Boat Safety Scheme Certificate)

The scheme itself is the BSS (Boat safety Scheme)

[hackenbush]

Thank you for all your replies. Just a quick general response based on the telephone chat with the surveyor after his visit.

 

When I say "fallen into my lap" I mean that I had been looking for a boat but couldn't find anything remotely affordable and gave up for the time being. Then I was approached with this Harborough Marine for 8K which was actually in my price range.

And now the survey has been done today but I will need to wait till later in the week to get the detailed report.

 

In a nutshell, the surveyor tells me the hull is absolutely fine and needs no work. However, it needs blacking and new anodes straight away.There are a number of jobs that will need to be done immediately as well, about 1K's worth of work. None of the work is critical as such but must be done and better now than later. One example,everything is powered from the solar panels. It will need the new alternator to be installed and hooked up with the batteries, starter etc.

 

As the surveyor said, "it's a project boat but in surprisingly good condition". The question is it is worth the 8k asking price plus 2k worth of work (including blacking and anodes) plus the 1k to get it to London? Could I get something similar in London for 10k?

This is my budget limit, absolute limit, so if I can't get similar for similar price this will equate to a good deal for me.

 

of course I would still need to get the safety check and this could add a few hundred quid to costs.

 

ps. If I did go ahead I'm thinking I would take it up to a boat yard in March, Cambs, get all the work done and then take it by road to Roydon.

 

Any tips, advice, concerns based on this update would be greatly appreciated.

[Lady Muck]

From what you're saying here, sounds like you've bagged yourself a bargain. And theres a shortage of bargains at the moment. People I know who make a living bringing boats down here to sell, say its getting harder and harder to find good deals. No, you wouldn't get something similar in London for £10k, no way, especially not if you weren't already a boater here, with some knowledge of who to ask. More like £20- £25k , even with an overplated hull (i.e. Not as in good condition). And if you did find one cheap, it might even be an uninsurable scrapper, like a couple recent ones I can think of. There are a few of those hanging in there. Bargains come up but they tend to get passed between friends and acquaintances.

The only suggestion I'd make is it will probably be cheaper to get the work done outside of the capital. Not only that, the tradesmen here are piled out and the drydocks and yards now all booked up for the summer. Was the surveyor local? Would he know where you should go?

Edited April 30, 2016 by Lady Muck

[ditchcrawler]

Thank you for all your replies. Just a quick general response based on the telephone chat with the surveyor after his visit.

 

When I say "fallen into my lap" I mean that I had been looking for a boat but couldn't find anything remotely affordable and gave up for the time being. Then I was approached with this Harborough Marine for 8K which was actually in my price range.

And now the survey has been done today but I will need to wait till later in the week to get the detailed report.

 

In a nutshell, the surveyor tells me the hull is absolutely fine and needs no work. However, it needs blacking and new anodes straight away.There are a number of jobs that will need to be done immediately as well, about 1K's worth of work. None of the work is critical as such but must be done and better now than later. One example,everything is powered from the solar panels. It will need the new alternator to be installed and hooked up with the batteries, starter etc.

 

As the surveyor said, "it's a project boat but in surprisingly good condition". The question is it is worth the 8k asking price plus 2k worth of work (including blacking and anodes) plus the 1k to get it to London? Could I get something similar in London for 10k?

This is my budget limit, absolute limit, so if I can't get similar for similar price this will equate to a good deal for me.

 

of course I would still need to get the safety check and this could add a few hundred quid to costs.

 

ps. If I did go ahead I'm thinking I would take it up to a boat yard in March, Cambs, get all the work done and then take it by road to Roydon.

 

Any tips, advice, concerns based on this update would be greatly appreciated.

Are you sure it hasn't already got its safety certificate, it would need one to get a licence if it has one of those.

[MtB]

I agree with Lady Muck. Sounds like you have a screaming bargain on your hands. Would you accept £12k for it? I've always fancied a classic fibreglass topped Harborough and good ones are hard to find!

[magictime]

it needs blacking and new anodes straight away.There are a number of jobs that will need to be done immediately as well, about 1K's worth of work. None of the work is critical as such...

 

As the surveyor said, "it's a project boat but in surprisingly good condition".

 

Fair enough then, looks like you've found a bargain. You should probably try to build up a bit of a financial buffer against future costs, but it doesn't sound like you'll be biting off more than you can chew in the short term.

[FadeToScarlet]

Thank you for all your replies. Just a quick general response based on the telephone chat with the surveyor after his visit.

 

When I say "fallen into my lap" I mean that I had been looking for a boat but couldn't find anything remotely affordable and gave up for the time being. Then I was approached with this Harborough Marine for 8K which was actually in my price range.

And now the survey has been done today but I will need to wait till later in the week to get the detailed report.

 

In a nutshell, the surveyor tells me the hull is absolutely fine and needs no work. However, it needs blacking and new anodes straight away.There are a number of jobs that will need to be done immediately as well, about 1K's worth of work. None of the work is critical as such but must be done and better now than later. One example,everything is powered from the solar panels. It will need the new alternator to be installed and hooked up with the batteries, starter etc.

 

As the surveyor said, "it's a project boat but in surprisingly good condition". The question is it is worth the 8k asking price plus 2k worth of work (including blacking and anodes) plus the 1k to get it to London? Could I get something similar in London for 10k?

This is my budget limit, absolute limit, so if I can't get similar for similar price this will equate to a good deal for me.

 

of course I would still need to get the safety check and this could add a few hundred quid to costs.

 

ps. If I did go ahead I'm thinking I would take it up to a boat yard in March, Cambs, get all the work done and then take it by road to Roydon.

 

Any tips, advice, concerns based on this update would be greatly appreciated.

My Lady Phillis! I think....

 

It's a bargain. A very good price. I also recommend Foxes in March, have used them several times and they don't mess about.

However - you may be correct and being on the Cam (at Cambridge ?) the boat may well also have a BSC.

From Anglia Ruskin University, though, all University of Cambridge Bachelors degrees are BA. No BSc degrees.