boater123 Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Hello, I have reached the stage of fitting my bulkheads. Any tips or advice in this process would be appreciated. I plan to use 25mm moisture resistant MDF as material, which is to be sealed then painted. 1 To shape the bulkhead to the curved ceiling, a cardboard template will be made and marked on the wood then cut with a jigsaw. Any improvements on this approach? With the knowledge that a level isn't much use in a boat on the water. 2 With the interior doors, is there a minimum size that anyone could suggest; going with approx. 2'6" wide and 6'5 high, cut with circular saw with a guide. 3 When it comes to securing the bulkheads to the cabin walls, floor and ceiling is it best practice to use screws or are brackets a better idea? The use of a builders square will be used to ensure the bulkheads are perpendicular to the cabin wall. Thanks, Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) I'm no joinery expert but a couple of suggestions: I find it really hard to cut a long neat straight line with a jigsaw. Even if you use a guide, the blade tends to go off-vertical causing waviness. The way to get a perfect finish is to use a router running along a straight edge (length of wood) clamped to the sheet being cut. Narrow boats tend to suffer from distortion caused by asymmetric heating of the steel. With the sun in a certain direction the steel one side can be too hot to touch whilst on the other, cold. This causes the whole shape of the boat to distort. If you attach the bulkheads too rigidly to all sides there will be a battle between the steel and the MDF. The steel will win! Therefore I think it is common practice to attach rigidly only on one side (the floor) and attach the other sides just by means of trim either side so the bullhead is effectively located in a slot and can slide in it a bit. But see what others say, as I said I'm no expert! Edited March 11, 2016 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I expect that you have bought a lined out shell or already lined it out. In my view that is making things hard for yourself because to look decent yopu will need near perfect cuts and fits. I would fit the bulkheads first and then the lining so the shaped edges are masked by the lining. Otherwise I would fit wooden fillets to the bulkhead-cabin side/roof joint to obscure the cut edge and any gaps. You can also do this along the floor. Otherwise I think you will need brackets on the floor unless you route a slot in the bottom of the bulkhead that fits over (say) a length of aluminium angle screwed to the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Payne Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I have some bulkheads uncovered at the minute, if i remember tonight ill take some photos and stick them up, give you a clear view of how they did it on my boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 If you get some 2X1 or whatever, rout a 25 mm channel in it and chamfer the edges you can screw that to the wall, shove the mdf with wavy edges in it and glue or screw the whole lot together, use a similar idea for the exposed edge and it will all look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 I expect that you have bought a lined out shell or already lined it out. In my view that is making things hard for yourself because to look decent yopu will need near perfect cuts and fits. I would fit the bulkheads first and then the lining so the shaped edges are masked by the lining. Otherwise I would fit wooden fillets to the bulkhead-cabin side/roof joint to obscure the cut edge and any gaps. You can also do this along the floor. Otherwise I think you will need brackets on the floor unless you route a slot in the bottom of the bulkhead that fits over (say) a length of aluminium angle screwed to the floor. I chose to make the floor and the walls first and then fit the bulkheads. I agree that fitting the bulkhead after the lining out is done can pose a problem. I hid any slight gap between bulkhead and wall by using framing and a dado rail. Like the OP I used MDF and after 8 years it's as good as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHutch Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 Our boat also has the floor, wall and ceiling in in first, bulkheads in afterwards, and fixed with screws to allow removal. However thought has also been given to removing the wall and floor, and the under-gunnel cladding which covers the electrical conduit runs fore and aft, so panels can be removed without removing the bulkhead. You will not get a perfect cut whatever you do, the bulkhead will expand/contract at a different rate to the steel shell, so you will need a way of bridging the gap at (presuming its sitting on and fixed to the floor) the top. Our boat has a quarter-round 3/4inch wooden bead for this purpose. While here, I would also like to remind wood swells with damp, some more than others, and again the steel will win as is great in tension. So as well as if you can acclimatising new/kindried wood to normal life, if fitting out in summer particular allow space for it to grow over winter. Some bits of our boat fail to leave enough space for this, and while most of it goes back on in late spring, it looks a right mess over winter and is at all times of year somewhat tenuously attached! Another thought in to sound-proofing. Narrowboats and the rooms in them are long and thin with small bulkheads, so if you can get these about sound proof it adds a lot of distance to the boat. Soundproof bulkheads require both a fairly soundproof material but also a good seal round the edge else the sound will just around the board. Our boat does not have this and had often only 15mm thick ply for bulkheads, and you can hear everything everywhere, including hearing ever detail of bathroom activity from both the master bedroom and the main living area. You can get 'sound proof sealant' but I expect builders calk does as well. MDF is often avoided, due to its issue with getting wet, and I do not know how much 'moister resistant' MDF likes being damp over winter, so would have some concerns about that over say a 50 year life. That said its very acoustically dead which will be good for the above, and if Koukouvagia says its done 8 years on his boat that's a good start. Our boat is now 25 years old, and we are making a few adjustments and improvements, but its really nice that the core fit out is still as sound as it was when it went in because if it wasnt and the 'refit' had to including replacing everything we touched because it was becoming time-expired it would double if not triple the workload. I am 29 this year and remember the boat being new, for my parents and grandfather who built the boat 25 years must seem like a blink of the eye! Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Jordan Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 The most efficient way of getting the full shape of the bulkhead is to make a full size template using pieces of scrap 9mm ply or MDF screwed together to make a margin template. Lay this on your material and cut to size. As already mentioned a ready lined out shell is more difficult, it will need to be trimmed round to hold it in place, difficult to do if the lining materials are thin and provide little fixing strength. If you look in my photo gallery you should find some pics of a timber edging material which can be used by fitting it to the sides before sliding your sheet material into the groove, this might solve some of the problems. Doorways can be much narrower than you suggest and are often 21" wide at gunwale level (bearing in mind to need to possibly get appliances and furniture through!) Best of luck with the project. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 You can use a Pocket Hole Jig (aka Kreg Mini Jig) to create pocket holes in the bulkhead panel to screw into the lining. Instructions here . The pocket holes are only visible from one side of the bulkhead, which is fine for the side inside cupboards, or which is going to have another finish applied. Otherwise use filler if painting, or glue in a matching dowel and pare back to a flush surface with a sharp chisel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 If you get some 2X1 or whatever, rout a 25 mm channel in it and chamfer the edges you can screw that to the wall, shove the mdf with wavy edges in it and glue or screw the whole lot together, use a similar idea for the exposed edge and it will all look good. I like that idea. Pity I didn't read this 13 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bag 'o' bones Posted March 11, 2016 Report Share Posted March 11, 2016 From experience of fitting out a ready lined boat it is easier to trim the lining components rather than trying to fit the bulk head to the lining. Word of advice, don't trap the ceiling outer panels where the wirining runs are found or the gun whale covers just in case you need access at a later date to modify something. However well planned your fit out is, there is always something you forget which could require access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 With the interior doors, is there a minimum size that anyone could suggest; going with approx. 2'6" wide and 6'5 high, cut with circular saw with a guide. unless you are of massive proportions, you don't need a door 30" wide. it is common practice to use 27" (or even 24") doors in houses where space is limited. http://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Doors+Windows/Internal-Doors/Internal-Softwood-Doors/c/1000655 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bee Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I think I would be just a bit concerned about fitting b/heads before lining the thing out, a) its a real problem to change the layout and I would rather not butt mdf ,or anything else really, up to steel in case it soaked up condensation and went all horrible. I have no idea how that yellow thing got there but I can't shift it. Edited March 12, 2016 by Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I expect that you have bought a lined out shell or already lined it out. In my view that is making things hard for yourself because to look decent yopu will need near perfect cuts and fits. I would fit the bulkheads first and then the lining so the shaped edges are masked by the lining. Otherwise I would fit wooden fillets to the bulkhead-cabin side/roof joint to obscure the cut edge and any gaps. You can also do this along the floor. Otherwise I think you will need brackets on the floor unless you route a slot in the bottom of the bulkhead that fits over (say) a length of aluminium angle screwed to the floor. This is what I have decided to go for when refitting Flamingo, but for different reasons. I reckon with a hull much of which is 80 years old, it is a good idea to be able to easily take down hull linings, and even lift floors, without having to tear down internal bulkheads that are fixed across the top of them. So I am putting the bulkheads up before linings, and even extending that to both floors and ceiling fitting around the already installed bulkheads. In this way, I expect minimum possible disturbance if I need to be able to expose any part of the shell on the inside if any repairs (riveted or welded) are needed. Obviously less essential on a modern new build hull, but on our last boat the amount of effort needed to take corrective action where windows had leaked and damaged linings was phenomenal, resulting in tearing down far more than I would have liked to get the relatively small are of affected panel out. So if I were fitting a new boat, I still think I would put bulkheads up first, and line between them. No use if you have bought a lines sail-away though, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I find it really hard to cut a long neat straight line with a jigsaw. Even if you use a guide, the blade tends to go off-vertical causing waviness. The way to get a perfect finish is to use a router running along a straight edge (length of wood) clamped to the sheet being cut. Or the same method using a circular saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) I find it really hard to cut a long neat straight line with a jigsaw. Even if you use a guide, the blade tends to go off-vertical causing waviness. The way to get a perfect finish is to use a router running along a straight edge (length of wood) clamped to the sheet being cut. Sometimes the old ways work well. These can actually do a very good job on providing an edge that accurately follows a pencilled line.... Edited March 12, 2016 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Yeabut you need a bit of skill for that, but not to use a router. Or the same method using a circular saw.Circular saw tends to splinter the edges, though I suppose not with MDF, or with a very fine saw blade. You'll still get a better finish with a router I reckon. Edited March 12, 2016 by nicknorman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Circular saw tends to splinter the edges, though I suppose not with MDF, or with a very fine saw blade. Actually I used to assume that had to be so, but if you do this...... 1) Select a blade with finer teeth 2) Set the depth of cut to only be a few millimetres more than the panel thickness, (but deep enough to ensue a full cut is guaranteed) 3) Let it move through the cut without ever pushing hard then on surfaces like ply there is very little damage to the outer layer. As with a jig saw remember the side that is likely to show any damage is the upper one, but I would never dream of using a jig saw except where shapes were required that I could not either cut with a circular say or a hand saw. Increasingly I just use a hand saw, because I'm pretty good at making straight clean cuts with them, and its often quicker than going to the bother of setting up power tools. (Mind you I only have to achieve standards appropriate to crappy old 80 year old boats! ) Edited March 12, 2016 by alan_fincher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I use a mini circular saw which is much easier to keep on a straight line or running along the side of a straight-edge. https://www.worx.com/en-GB/WorxSaw-Compact-Circular-Saw-UK.aspx (WX426) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 A panel saw used at the correct angle and you can't really help cutting a dead straight line as long as you begin the cut inline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 I find I can saw more accurately since I have been wearing glasses and I don't mean because I couldn't see. Something that didn't occur to me until later life, I am right handed but have a master left eye, so I was always looking at the line I was trying to cut to at an angle and not straight on from behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Jordan Posted March 12, 2016 Report Share Posted March 12, 2016 As with many jobs, selecting to right tool makes a huge difference to the ease of operation and the quality of the results. Jigsaws tend to cut a slightly wriggly line but this can be almost eliminated if using a quality tool with the right type of blade. I can recommend the use of a Dewalt W331K fitted with Bosch T308 B blades. The saw has 700 Watts of power and the hollow ground blades are intended for making a clean splinter free cut. Hollow ground blades are not suited to cutting tight radius curves but will have no trouble with the roof curve of a boat. The saws cost about £130 but are well worth the outlay, it's not reasonable to expect a £30 DIY tool from the local shed to give good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Featured Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now