peak forest canal in a shocking state

[crossley]

Just returned to my home mooring at Furness vale, from alrewas. Had a lovely trip,with a little ice breaking here&there, set a cracking pace on the T@M @ macc canal till we got to high lane, from then on to marple junction is badly silted,in places, but the upper peak forest section to Furness vale is dreadful. When was it last dredged? An analogy would be comparing a motorway to an unmade road. On the T&M we were able to cruise at 900to 1300 rpm for miles without causing a breaking, or indeed much wash at all,at a good stiff walking speed.by way of comparison,

On the peak forest we ran at idle, 450 rpm most of the way,and still

caused wash at a slow walking speed.

I'd forgotten how bad it was.

It's getting to be barely navigable now for deeper drafted boats, but still navigable with care.

It's in dire need of maintaince, never mind spending money on silly sculptures and tat like that,while the system crumbles away. Dredging is what we need, and more of it!

[jenlyn]

Just returned to my home mooring at Furness vale, from alrewas. Had a lovely trip,with a little ice breaking here&there, set a cracking pace on the T@M @ macc canal till we got to high lane, from then on to marple junction is badly silted,in places, but the upper peak forest section to Furness vale is dreadful. When was it last dredged? An analogy would be comparing a motorway to an unmade road. On the T&M we were able to cruise at 900to 1300 rpm for miles without causing a breaking, or indeed much wash at all,at a good stiff walking speed.by way of comparison,

On the peak forest we ran at idle, 450 rpm most of the way,and still

caused wash at a slow walking speed.

I'd forgotten how bad it was.

It's getting to be barely navigable now for deeper drafted boats, but still navigable with care.

It's in dire need of maintaince, never mind spending money on silly sculptures and tat like that,while the system crumbles away. Dredging is what we need, and more of it!

Been saying for a couple of years that folk are taking their eye off the ball. Be too late soon.

[furnessvale]

Just returned to my home mooring at Furness vale, from alrewas. Had a lovely trip,with a little ice breaking here&there, set a cracking pace on the T@M @ macc canal till we got to high lane, from then on to marple junction is badly silted,in places, but the upper peak forest section to Furness vale is dreadful. When was it last dredged? An analogy would be comparing a motorway to an unmade road. On the T&M we were able to cruise at 900to 1300 rpm for miles without causing a breaking, or indeed much wash at all,at a good stiff walking speed.by way of comparison,

On the peak forest we ran at idle, 450 rpm most of the way,and still

caused wash at a slow walking speed.

I'd forgotten how bad it was.

It's getting to be barely navigable now for deeper drafted boats, but still navigable with care.

It's in dire need of maintaince, never mind spending money on silly sculptures and tat like that,while the system crumbles away. Dredging is what we need, and more of it!

No dredging is planned because, according to the local waterways manager, "none is required"

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[DHutch]

I am torn on this one.

 

On one level, the canal is indeed 'fairly bloody full' , you need to 'keep to the deep water' in a lot of boats, and it cannot be much fun for anyone running a fully laden working boat up there on a schedule.

 

However on the flip side, you can get a laden working boat up the Peak Forest and our 'heavy ish cabin boat' at 2ft6 or so went up without any real issues at all and I wouldn't for instance say its any much worse than then Ashby.

 

 

Would you like another zero on your annual licence fee, or to have to keep to the channel on some of the less busy canals?

 

 

Daniel

[crossley]

A stitch in time comes to mind.

A bit of timely maintaince or it'll be closed for extended periods in a few years.

Its like running a car into the ground then completely rebuilding it every 5 years at great expense,

When a little regular tlc would obviate the major re builds.

I'm sure it wasn't built like that.

It looks like a forgotten waterway, we could have campaign cruises in high summer and things like that.the coal boat makes it up, and the trip boat runs, so that's good enough for the authorities.

We have got a super new motorised lift bridge though,be nice if it was remote control by a key fob!all we need now is a bit of water under it.

[Flyboy]

Just returned to my home mooring at Furness vale, from alrewas. Had a lovely trip,with a little ice breaking here&there, set a cracking pace on the T@M @ macc canal till we got to high lane, from then on to marple junction is badly silted,in places, but the upper peak forest section to Furness vale is dreadful. When was it last dredged? An analogy would be comparing a motorway to an unmade road. On the T&M we were able to cruise at 900to 1300 rpm for miles without causing a breaking, or indeed much wash at all,at a good stiff walking speed.by way of comparison,

On the peak forest we ran at idle, 450 rpm most of the way,and still

caused wash at a slow walking speed.

I'd forgotten how bad it was.

It's getting to be barely navigable now for deeper drafted boats, but still navigable with care.

It's in dire need of maintaince, never mind spending money on silly sculptures and tat like that,while the system crumbles away. Dredging is what we need, and more of it!

Dredging is not the complete answer. The Macc. will always be a problem because it was built with a very shallow saucer cross section. It is always going to be shallow at the edges.

[jenlyn]

I am torn on this one.

 

On one level, the canal is indeed 'fairly bloody full' , you need to 'keep to the deep water' in a lot of boats, and it cannot be much fun for anyone running a fully laden working boat up there on a schedule.

 

However on the flip side, you can get a laden working boat up the Peak Forest and our 'heavy ish cabin boat' at 2ft6 or so went up without any real issues at all and I wouldn't for instance say its any much worse than then Ashby.

 

 

Would you like another zero on your annual licence fee, or to have to keep to the channel on some of the less busy canals?

 

 

Daniel

It does not need another 0 on the end of the licence fee.

They have ample funding. The problem starts when they allocate the budgets.

Go through their annual report.

[crossley]

Or we could have had a handraulic lift bridge and spent the change on some spot dredging instead.

I'm 30" or thereabouts draught too, and get by by keeping to the mid channel.

But it doesn't alter the fact that the canal requires regular dredging like any other canal, and it ain't really happening is it.

Saw some new piling work though near disley, but why do they dump the spoil in the canal?

[DHutch]

I'm 30" or thereabouts draught

Draught friends!

 

I don't know enough about the dynamics of dredging, silt deposition, spot dredging, but having cracked round 'the loop' as part of last years boating I cant say I found the Peak Forest to be in a 'shocking state' it appeared to me to be well within the normal cut and thrust of UK canals. As said, it will never be 6ft deep edges to edge.

 

Bits of the Huddersfield narrow are also shallow as a dog, bits of the BNC are fairly poor, the Trevor-Llangollen are not huge under water.... list goes on!

 

 

Daniel

[b0atman]

Simple problem with the Peak Forest is wasted water on the Marple locks combined with CRT not keeping eye on levels.

[GoodGurl]

Alton always gets stuck under the bridges and is constantly telling CRT about it.

[MoominPapa]

Our experience last summer with a 34" draught was that it's pretty shallow in places, but perfectly passable, The Lower Peak Forest was worse than the Upper Peak Forest, and quite a shock after the Ashton, but the only place we got seriously stuck was a bridge-ole on the Macc.

 

 

MP.

[magpie patrick]

In the 1980's I used to steer the trip boat Unicorn up to New Mills and sometimes Whaley Bridge - 3 foot draught. It was shallow and hard work then.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the upper Peak Forest is narrower than many narrow canals, certainly narrower than the T&M - it's barely wide enough for two boats in many places and when built it wasn't envisaged that boats would stop anywhere other than recognised stopping places. It's narrow because it is perched on the side of a hill in difficult terrain. It has slipped off that hillside a couple of times, there was a major breach at Disley in 1974 I think. I walked past the site of it today - you wouldn't know save for the concrete coping to the towpath.

 

The IWA had minimum standards for restored canals at one point - they were rather better than most canals were actually built to - the upper peak forest is a case in point.

[bassplayer]

We had the Beeching cuts in the 60's, maybe this decade will be remembered for the Parry cuts...

[Ricco1]

The Peak Forest is passable for most boats, provided that the level is kept to full. The problem is that it rarely is. OK, for a few weeks in September the service reservoirs got fairly low so restricting the flow into the canal is understandable. When all the reservoirs are full to the brim there's no reason at all for the canal not to be full to the brim. But it's regularly 2 or 3 inches down and isn't topped up until a boater complains. Crazy situation, makes no sense at all.

[NewMillsCaretaker]

The Upper Peak Forest canal has been topped up over night, I complained yesterday since some of the boats in New Mills Marina were on the bottom and a few were in need of pump out and unable to move , CRT replied that the valves to the reservoirs had been closed due to the recent heavy rain to prevent any possibility of flooding. To be fair CRT reacted swiftly as promised. I will continue to monitor levels and inform CRT if low at any time, hopefully this will benefit us all and keep the level relatively stable.

[furnessvale]

The Peak Forest is passable for most boats, provided that the level is kept to full. The problem is that it rarely is. OK, for a few weeks in September the service reservoirs got fairly low so restricting the flow into the canal is understandable. When all the reservoirs are full to the brim there's no reason at all for the canal not to be full to the brim. But it's regularly 2 or 3 inches down and isn't topped up until a boater complains. Crazy situation, makes no sense at all.

"To save high level leakage", the summit pound is maintained 2" low, . What these engineers don't seem to realise is that if you maintain the level 2" low, the cracks that cause the high level leakage will propagate downwards causing "high level leaks" at a lower level.

 

Over and above this 2", the level is often 2"-4" off, meaning that the pound is then 6" down. At that level on an already shallow canal, deep draughted boats will have problems mid channel let alone at the edges.

 

As always, it is not the whole canal. There are perhaps half a dozen trouble spots which, when the level is up can be navigated. When the level is off they set the gauge for the entire canal. The fact that 99% of the canal is passable is irrelevant if those 6 spots stop deep boats. CRT have been repeatedly informed about these spots, notably by Brian and AnnMarie on Alton, to no avail. The fact that they have to turn out to get Alton over the obstructions, which costs them money on every occasion, seems to go completely over their heads, or should it be under their keels!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[bigcol]

Reading this, it has to be said you do hear CRT spending money, but I've never seen any dredging?

Being on the GU, you would have thought in the last 8 years I would have seen some.

 

At this moment in time, is there any dredgers working near you.?

Surely some where, there be dredging going on.

 

I have seen a volunteer clean up, which was good to watch, and thank some people.

 

Col

Edited January 23, 2016 by bigcol

[Emerald Fox]

Would you like another zero on your annual licence fee, or to have to keep to the channel on some of the less busy canals?

 

He would like a zero KNOCKED OFF his licence fee! As CRT are simply not doing their dredging properly!

[Emerald Fox]

Just seen this - any interest?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413377/Digital-cameras-old-trainers-course-shopping-trolley-bizarre-objects-lurking-Regent-s-Canal-50-000-gallons-water-drained-massive-clean-operation.html

[Mike Todd]

Just seen this - any interest?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3413377/Digital-cameras-old-trainers-course-shopping-trolley-bizarre-objects-lurking-Regent-s-Canal-50-000-gallons-water-drained-massive-clean-operation.html

Dredging to rectify the natural effects of water is something I would expect to have to pay for through the licence fee. Paying to have other people's illegal fly tipping removed is another matter. One of the defects of liability in our country is that when an unidentified person dumps waste on your property, you have to bear the cost of its removal.

[crossley]

Ah, that may explain it a little,if the level was low. it was dusk going on dark when we bumped and scraped our way up on Thurs evening.

Have been away on the T&M since October and got quite used to that.

The peak forest is our home canal

as it were, and we obviously have travelled it numerous times with but little occasional difficulty, and know it well. but that last trip on Thurs evening was the worst passage we've ever had.

I was trying to think how the canal could have deteriorated so much in the 3 months or so we've been away.

Maybe the level is low to minimise water loss till they fix the leaks.

Aren't they meant to be injecting expanding foam or something into the leaks over this winter?

It still needs dredging though.

It'll take more than another zero on my license fee if we have another major breach for want of regular inspection and maintaince, like the one at disley. We went to see that, it was something Of an attraction at the time. Early 1970s?

The railway, the A6,and the canal all have slips around there from Time to time, being on a hillside.

Whose is that sunken boat by swizzles? Looks salvageable but I wouldn't like to foot the bill for refloating it.

[metanoia]

Where's "ditchcrawler" when you need him?

 

"just don't use it"

 

is his considered response when you mention CRT ignored problems elsewhere on the system .......

[ditchcrawler]

Where's "ditchcrawler" when you need him?

 

"just don't use it"

 

is his considered response when you mention CRT ignored problems elsewhere on the system .......

Far from it, we were up there last year, and as others have said its slow going. Maybe we were lucky but water levels were fine which helped.

[midnight cowboy]

Hi All

 

CaRT invite us to nominate sections of the network that need dredging - there is supposed to be a webpage to put up suggestions - but I have never found it - but I have been able to get a response from the relevant regional office whenever I have had concerns - has anyone tried it for the Peak Forest ?Macc?