Smoke Billowing into Boat

[NorthwichTrader]

Hi,

Does anyone have a morso 1430 with the air wash system (air vent in the back, operated by a slider beneath the fire)?

We've got a 2m+, 4 1/2", flue on ours, yet, even when really hot, with 0 degrees outside, it balloons a load of smoke into the room when the door's open. We crack the door open gently, etc. Etc. It's a new install, so I know the space above the baffle plate and flue are unobstructed.

We're burning pitch pine at the moment, which is a tad damp and a little smokey, but shouldn't all that smoke still have a preference to be drawn up the flue? It's quite literally that the entire contents of the fire opt to vent into the room, missing the flue altogether.

The baffle plate is in correctly, can any of you think of a different angle, I'm totally baffled?

Many thanks,

Stuart

[spaceyaface]

Perhaps, a hotter flue would help draw the smoke up the chimney. I've experienced all the above...forget about having a clean glass, get it up to temp.

[twbm]

I know from bitter experience that air at 0 degrees is 'heavy' and can take a bit of shifting up a flue. (Accident with a badly fitted central heating system years ago).

 

As suggested try getting the stove and flu hotter with drier wood before you go for the soggy stuff - and check there's air getting in at the bottom else there will be nothing to draw.

[bizzard]

If this 1430 stove has the half moon shaped flue restrictor 'like the 1410 up inside the stove under the flue pipe hole it might be worthwhile removing it '3 nuts' like is recommended for 1410 for boat use. I unblocked and removed one last week which had become totally blocked up with solid goo and clinker.

[peterboat]

Perhaps, a hotter flue would help draw the smoke up the chimney. I've experienced all the above...forget about having a clean glass, get it up to temp.

i agree plus damp wood is always going to quench the combustion and cause mischief like you are experiencing

[bottle]

What Bizzard said also low heat fuel (wet wood) is not good for getting the flue warm/hot can also cause excessive 'goo and clinker'

 

Sweep the flue, with a proper brush: example: http://www.ironmongeryonline.com/bailey-1846-universal-woodstock-brush-4in no connection just satisfied customer

 

 

ps. I have the 1430 and only burn solid fuel, (Excel) no wood,

[Athy]

Our Godin used sometimes to billow smoke back into the saloon when we lit it. Someone (it may even have been on here) suggested that we should burn a few balls of newspaper in it before laying and lighting the fire, as this would warm the flue. I was sceptical, but when I tried it, it did work.

 

A longer chimney may help you too.

[FadeToScarlet]

As Bizzard has said, make sure the baffle plate (and the extra bit under the flue if you have one) are clear, I cleaned one for a friend the other day because it was totally jammed up with gunk and stopping the stove drawing at all!

[Mac of Cygnet]

If this 1430 stove has the half moon shaped flue restrictor 'like the 1410 up inside the stove under the flue pipe hole it might be worthwhile removing it '3 nuts' like is recommended for 1410 for boat use. I unblocked and removed one last week which had become totally blocked up with solid goo and clinker.

 

What Bizz said. These flue dampers if fitted are a potential danger, especially if burning a mixture of wood and smokeless fuel.

[blackrose]

Same thing happens on my morso panther which is a big 9kW stove. I always thought the stove was too big for the flue length hence reduced draw, so I'm surprised to hear you have a problem with a squirrel. I've met others with the panther on boats and they don't have the problem, so I've never understood why it happens. I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with cold flue gases as I once insulated the chimney and it didn't solve the problem. I spoke to morso and a flue company and they said it shouldn't happen even with a single wall flue, but I still think that the flue length is the issue for my big stove.

[NorthwichTrader]

Many thanks, all!

 

Just to further add...

 

there isn't a half-moon plate fitted (but thanks for that suggestion), and I've not only had this smoking issue with the recent 'damper' wood, but also with 'good' ash, and now using just coal only. I've had the fire running very hot, and it still does it? Not quite as much, but still significantly so. Most peculiar, I can't fathom it?

 

I know there are no blockages because I fitted the stove as a brand new unit and flue, just over 4 weeks ago.

 

It's an infuriating stove to refuel, as you can imagine, there is absolutely no logic to it at all.

[MoominPapa]

Long shot, but can you shut down the air supply to under the fire before opening the main door. Ie leave ashpan door closed and close air vent. ( I don't have a Squirrel, so this may not be possible.)

 

The only time our Little Wenlock, which has one door, spills smoke into the cabin is when it's burning very strongly: the fire-bed is hot enough to create strong convection flow through itself from below the grate into the body of the stove, and with the door open, the chimney can't evacuate all this flow and the cold air coming in at the top of the door opening fast enough. With a separate ash-pan door, if you're suffering the same problem, you might be able to solve it by cutting the air flow from below temporarily.

 

Cheers,

MP.

[Glynn]

You say its an infuriating stove to refuel, is this because both doors are opening together ?.

If so, remove (if fitted) the bracket that connects the two doors together. I did this on our 1410, it allows you to open just the ash door or just the main door. It helps a lot because you can crack the ash door open to make it dram faster from cold.

[NorthwichTrader]

Yes, MP, I can shut off the air below but, sadly, with little effect on smoke spillage.

Hi Glynn, I do have the safety bracket you mention, but this only prevents me from opening the ash pan door independently of the main door. The main door opens for refuelling with the ash pan door closed.

I'm going to get a 'properly insulated' chimney that's around 10" taller, just to see if that improves the draw enough to improve things.

Many thanks again to all,

Stuart

[smileypete]

What does the baffle plate do for you if you have a single flue?

 

Apart from raising the risk of a blocked flue and so increasing the risk of CO poisoning?

 

Either way it's mandatory common sense to fit a couple of CO alarms, one with a digital readout.

 

BTW wonder why the boat safety doesn't require CO alarms, given that boat approved ones are now available.

 

cheers, Pete.

smpt

[blackrose]

What does the baffle plate do for you if you have a single flue?

 

Apart from raising the risk of a blocked flue and so increasing the risk of CO poisoning?

 

Doesn't the baffle plate just divert the hot gases so that they take a slightly longer route, have more of a chance to heat up the stove and don't just disappear straight up the flue?

 

That's the same for single or double walled flues isn't it?

 

I can see the point of a double walled or fully insulated chimney (if it's a long chimney - I've been told by two flue suppliers that less than a metre won't make any difference), but I can't see the point of a double walled or insulated flue inside the boat.

[smileypete]

Doesn't the baffle plate just divert the hot gases so that they take a slightly longer route, have more of a chance to heat up the stove and don't just disappear straight up the flue?

 

That's the same for single or double walled flues isn't it?

 

I can see the point of a double walled or fully insulated chimney (if it's a long chimney - I've been told by two flue suppliers that less than a metre won't make any difference), but I can't see the point of a double walled or insulated flue inside the boat.

Yeah my understanding is that the baffle plate is there for reasons of efficiency. However I get the feeling that with a single skin flue, that heat would be recovered from the surface of the flue anyway.

 

But the baffle plate would make a lot more sense in a domestic house installation or a boat installation with a double skin flue. Has anyone tried running the Squirrel stove without a baffle plate? I wonder if it performs another function such as part of the air wash.

 

cheers Pete.

smpt

Edited January 19, 2016 by smileypete

[NorthwichTrader]

The air wash is independent of the baffle plate and, from what I can see of it, wouldn't be prevented from doing its job if the baffle plate was removed. In fact, I was only thinking today that the air wash system can only work properly with a good draw anyway! So unless you want to hunt the fire on and live out on the deck, it's probably not a feature that is overly useful in a boat install?

Back to the baffle plate, I think a lot of heat would race away up the flue, albeit the flue would radiate some of that heat? Also it may serve to protect the stove top from extremes, maybe????

[NorthwichTrader]

What about trimming back the front edge of the baffle plate a 1/4" at a time with an angle grinder? Can anyone think of any science that might make this a problem, that might make the fire perform badly?

I suppose I could always try it and get a new one if the idea is a failure?

Any thoughts?

Best,

Stuart

[GUMPY]

here's a thought are you burning the wood on a grate?

Grates in stoves are designed for burning solid fuel not wood.

When burning solid fuel you need draft from below

When burning wood you need draft from above.

Our Country 4 has no grate and the wood is burnt on a bed of wood ash on the base of the stove. In use we never open the bottom air vent and control the whole thing with the top vent.

If you are using a grate and only burn wood my suggestion would be to let the ash pan fill up with ash shut the bottom vent and control the whole thing using the top vent.

 

Awaits the crys of rubbish from those that don't know the physics of burning different types of fuel in stoves.

[smileypete]

What about trimming back the front edge of the baffle plate a 1/4" at a time with an angle grinder? Can anyone think of any science that might make this a problem, that might make the fire perform badly?

I suppose I could always try it and get a new one if the idea is a failure?

Any thoughts?

Best,

Stuart

 

A quick google led me back to this post on the forum:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73640#entry1501594

 

Maybe just try it that way and see how it performs, either way I'd check the CO alarms are all tickey boo.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[GUMPY]

I assume you have done as this poster has

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73640&p=1503943

From the thread that SP posted.

[smileypete]

I assume you have done as this poster has

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73640&p=1503943

From the thread that SP posted.

 

Well spotted!

 

(I have run out of greenies already today though...)

[NorthwichTrader]

 

A quick google led me back to this post on the forum:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=73640#entry1501594

 

Maybe just try it that way and see how it performs, either way I'd check the CO alarms are all tickey boo.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Thanks, Pete!

Are you referring to an idea about removing it entirely?

[Mac of Cygnet]

here's a thought are you burning the wood on a grate?

Grates in stoves are designed for burning solid fuel not wood.

When burning solid fuel you need draft from below

When burning wood you need draft from above.

Our Country 4 has no grate and the wood is burnt on a bed of wood ash on the base of the stove. In use we never open the bottom air vent and control the whole thing with the top vent.

If you are using a grate and only burn wood my suggestion would be to let the ash pan fill up with ash shut the bottom vent and control the whole thing using the top vent.

 

Awaits the crys of rubbish from those that don't know the physics of burning different types of fuel in stoves.

 

Absolutely correct. I converted my small boat stove from coal to woodburning by removing the grate and putting it under the ashpan then burning the wood on bed of ash in the ashpan. It now burns much more efficiently and stays in for 12 or more hours.