Early pleasure boats - purpose built, converted lifeboats and pontoons

[Joseph]

Hello everyone

 

I've a good reason for asking some seemingly odd questions about pleasure boating, and everyone has always proved to be helpful, so...maybe someone can help with these:

 

1. Purpose built canal holiday boats (narrow, anyway): ignoring boats like those which H R De Salis and A E Neal had built, and other individual boats, what were the first purpose-built canal boats that were more than one-offs, river craft and so on? My suspicions lie with the Holt Abbott boats from Stourport (began 1950), or the purpose-built ones that the Inland Cruising Association commissioned after 1935 - Bobby and Beryl, for instance. Has anyone heard of any other very early examples?

 

2. People here have been very helpful about narrow boat conversions, but, more obscurely, does anyone know when was the first conversion of a pontoon or a ships' lifeboat? I have traced a lifeboat conversion back to 1947, at Hanham, and a narrower lifeboat (often lifeboats were over 7 feet wide) to the Macclesfield Canal in 1948. Two pontoon conversions (6 feet wide!), owned by the early IWA member G E Livock of Sussex, were recorded in 1948. I assume that war surplus and ship scrapping will have been the source for these, but has anyone come across any such conversions before 1939?

 

3. Having no boat, I haven't travelled around by canal (I have by road) and so I have not been able to spot whether there are still any converted pontoons or lifeboats afloat (there is a pontoon in the dry at the Boat Museum). Has anyone seen any?

 

Well, these queries could involve some head-scratching (I have done a fair amount of that myself!), and much of the information, if it is there at all, may well be in peoples' recollections. I would be very grateful if anyone can shed any light on these queries; any answers will help to get the historical record right, and will be put to good use.

 

Fingers crossed, and have a good August Bank holiday.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Joseph

[Arthur Brown]

In my limited experience boating has changed over the last 50 years from largely DIY and "Modify and make do" to buying a boat with marinised engine and custom made hull.

 

Where I first had a boat (Holme Lock on the Trent) there was a two pontoon conversion on the north bank with a rather rectangular hut on top -maybe at that beam there was no space to lose in tumblehome. There was a story of a local boat fitted with a car engine and gearbox (using 1 and Reverse) that discovered that non-synchro gear selections were hard work, and that plain bearings were not up to continuous duty.

 

However it was these DIY jobs that brought boating away from being a "gentleman's launch" society and left it available to many more.

[Ray T]

This film has HHS

 

 

A pontoon converted by Herbert Horace Slack.

[twbm]

Worsley in the 60's and 70's was home to numerous lifeboat and other conversions in various states of repair as well as a couple of well kept ex river cruisers. Most of the summers seemed to be spent renovating the ex life boats with maybe a weeks cruise. Every winter some would end up sunk by a combination of the weather, failure of some optimistic hull repairs done with cement, or the action of ice against the hulls pushed by the passing coal traffic, steered by chaps who would have rightly fell about laughing at a sign saying 'slow down'.

 

The sudden availability of ex NCB wooden box boats when, in the early 70's, they stopped lifting the canal banks to keep pace with mining subsidence lead to a flurry of 'interesting' conversions. Some were cut in half with flat transom sterns, others left whole, with (like the lifeboats) any number of variations of lorry and car engines / gearboxes with clutch pedals on the decks or worked with levers, and props sticking out of the back somehow. Anyone with a proper marine box was a bit 'posh' as I recall, and there were a few revelations around how fast a boat will go forward in 4th gear, and how slowly it stops in reverse.

 

The first 'proper' canal leisure boat to live locally was Egerton, a new build from Harborough Marine. Definitely the pride of the fleet for some years.

[zenataomm]

Swan Line Cruisers had some converted narrow beam clinker lifeboats in the late 50s "Swan Knight" springs to mind.

 

Ex Army pontoons abounded and I recall one boat made out of two placed back to back with a centre cockpit where the outboard was installed. The engine was mounted on a frame that enabled it to be be spun 360 degrees giving instant reverse like a dodgem car.

 

I recall watching an ex lifeboat being craned in at the wharf at Sutton Stop. It had spent several years in someone's back garden being fitted out. As it was lifted into the air observers were able to admire the internal details as the clinker planking had all shrunk.

 

The most impressive ex military craft I think I ever saw was a landing craft I think it was near the park in Watford and still had the massive drop down door at the front.

[by'eck]

Didn't a far sighted retired sea Captain convert some lifeboats to provide horse drawn pleasure trips on the Llangollen in the 1890's. Mentioned in Tim & Pru TV series

[X Alan W]

There was a war surplus company that traded from a spot betwen Alrewas & Fradley ( Leversleys? spelling ) in the early 50's he seemed to have a never ending supply of pontoons & airborne lifeboats my farther started a conversion on a pontoon that my uncle took over & finished the fit out It could possibley be the one in the video just after the Peter Scott Boat he kept it & boated until the early 60's,the family also completed a paddle wheeler pontoon powered by a Ford 8 side valve engine with the original 3 speed+ reverse gearbox, propshaft cut to approx 30" & the rear axle the paddles were fixe where the road wheels would have been the brakes being rod operated were modded to work independtately so one side could be braked & the diff would revolve one paddle quicker to aid turning..

[zenataomm]

Leavesley-International are still there, but have moved up substantially

[Pluto]

The L&LC licensed several motor pleasure boats in 1930/31, the date their records for such began. Previously, the earliest boat house had been authorised in 1908. I seem to recall that the original documents are at Ellesmere Port - I have digital copies of parts. I also deposited some of the Draper collection of photos which has good images of converted lifeboats for 1946/47. There is also documentation for the K&AC which covers boat houses and pleasure boats going back to the 1880s.

[Guest]

Hello everyone

 

I've a good reason for asking some seemingly odd questions about pleasure boating, and everyone has always proved to be helpful, so...maybe someone can help with these:

 

1. Purpose built canal holiday boats (narrow, anyway): ignoring boats like those which H R De Salis and A E Neal had built, and other individual boats, what were the first purpose-built canal boats that were more than one-offs, river craft and so on? My suspicions lie with the Holt Abbott boats from Stourport (began 1950), or the purpose-built ones that the Inland Cruising Association commissioned after 1935 - Bobby and Beryl, for instance. Has anyone heard of any other very early examples?

 

2. People here have been very helpful about narrow boat conversions, but, more obscurely, does anyone know when was the first conversion of a pontoon or a ships' lifeboat? I have traced a lifeboat conversion back to 1947, at Hanham, and a narrower lifeboat (often lifeboats were over 7 feet wide) to the Macclesfield Canal in 1948. Two pontoon conversions (6 feet wide!), owned by the early IWA member G E Livock of Sussex, were recorded in 1948. I assume that war surplus and ship scrapping will have been the source for these, but has anyone come across any such conversions before 1939?

 

3. Having no boat, I haven't travelled around by canal (I have by road) and so I have not been able to spot whether there are still any converted pontoons or lifeboats afloat (there is a pontoon in the dry at the Boat Museum). Has anyone seen any?

 

Well, these queries could involve some head-scratching (I have done a fair amount of that myself!), and much of the information, if it is there at all, may well be in peoples' recollections. I would be very grateful if anyone can shed any light on these queries; any answers will help to get the historical record right, and will be put to good use.

 

Fingers crossed, and have a good August Bank holiday.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Joseph

Re. question 3.

In May of this year there were three converted lifeboats tied up at Plank Lane Bridge on the Leigh Branch of the L&L canal. Might have some pics when back on laptop. Sadly not seen a wooden pontoon conversion in years (other than at Ellesmere of course.) There were loads of lifeboats and pontoons when I was a kid on the L&L.

[John Brightley]

Many of the earliest holiday cruisers were based in the Chester area. I seem to remember Inland Hire Cruisers at Christleton were the first holiday hire company in the 1930's, closely followed by Dean's.

There have been one or two articles in Waterways World on this subject in the past - maybe someone can dig out the relevant ones !

[X Alan W]

Leavesley-International are still there, but have moved up substantially

I suppose that as just after WW2 the avaiable kit they had was possibely as up market for that time frame as the mind boggling kit that is available now from them, they must have been a sucess to be still going. As an aside I built a "Special" now known as a kit car powered by a 2 main bearing crank Austin 7 engine; with the mods & tuning the crank was prone to break. IIRC I bought 4 or5 crankshafts from them, stripping out from a pile of possibly 60 or more engines, on the next visit for another replacement Mr L snr took pity on me & sold me an ex life boat motor which was a 3 bearing crank for the same price as a 2 bearing replacement crank.I found him to be a real staight up helpful man.

[bizzard]

At South Benfleet by Benfleet creek there was a dealer in old military equipment including DUKW's, old ships lifeboats and even a few ex wartime MTB's and MGB's moored in the creek. We bought an ex P&O 30' clinker lifeboat from him and converted it at Leigh-On-Sea.

[nebulae]

Our first canal boat was a carvel diagonal planked ex naval lifeboat. The engine was a Ford E93A engine.Changing gear while using the clutch was a bit odd .Normaly moored in a shallow place for good reason. Once,when it sank in a deeper place ,Bits of wood nailed to the cockpit coaming,the inside of the Elsan Bristol and very frantic activity retrieved the situation.Fresh oil in the engine,bit of fiberglass and off we went.(Do other people remember the Elsan Bristol, None of your fancy Porta Pottys in those days. When filled to the top they were V heavy,You young ones dont know what you have missed)

[Joseph]

Many thanks anyone

 

There are a whole lot of themes here - military surplus, DIY and improvisations, hire firms and so on. nebulae, I recall Elsans too...luckily only from boyhood, when my Dad would have to do the honours with a spade, while some other boaters would pour the whole lot into the canal! I'm not sure about the early trip boats at Llangollen - but the gent who started these was not actually a Captain, although he had been to sea! I'd love to see the photos of the lifeboats at Plank Lane - I wonder when wooden lifeboats became less common on ships? And if anyone has seen a converted pontoon still afloat, please let me know. I am beginning to wonder if the one at Ellesmere Port is a very rare survivor!

 

Thanks again

 

Joseph

[Guest]

Many thanks anyone

 

There are a whole lot of themes here - military surplus, DIY and improvisations, hire firms and so on. nebulae, I recall Elsans too...luckily only from boyhood, when my Dad would have to do the honours with a spade, while some other boaters would pour the whole lot into the canal! I'm not sure about the early trip boats at Llangollen - but the gent who started these was not actually a Captain, although he had been to sea! I'd love to see the photos of the lifeboats at Plank Lane - I wonder when wooden lifeboats became less common on ships? And if anyone has seen a converted pontoon still afloat, please let me know. I am beginning to wonder if the one at Ellesmere Port is a very rare survivor!

 

Thanks again

 

Joseph

I'll put them on tomorrow when laptop is charged.

Last one is not a lifeboat of course, but was a very early pleasure boat on the L&L canal. I took the pic about 1969 but don't know what became of the boat which was called Mary.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Guest

[fanshaft]

My first canal boat 'Wanderer' was a converted pontoon (around 1964) - it didn't live up to it's name as it only got from Bingley to Gargrave and then the engine conked out I then went off to University and coiuldn't get to pump it out and eventually she sank. British Waterways raised it, and towed back to Sklpton, hauled it out of the water and burnt it! I got a nice, hand written letter from Jim Tasker (the BW Pleasure Craft Officer for Northern England) with a cheque for the unused part of my licence and a hope thatI might get another boat in the future. He was a real gentleman.

The book that really turned me on to canals was 'The Canals of England' by De Mare (a school prize) and he had a pontoon conmversion - seen in a few of the photos.

Regards

David L.

[dave moore]

David

 

Back in '65 I received Eric de Mare's book as a school prize for my " O" levels.....still have the same copy on my bookshelf at home....sad, scary or what.???

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Joseph]

Very many thanks everyone

 

Well, surprised to see the photos of converted lifeboats, but great to see them! The ones I recall were clinker built - these look like metal? Yes, de Mare's Pyrrha (wonder what happened to it?) was a converted pontoon - I am still wondering if there were pontoons in use before the war, and if so were any converted? Cyril Wood's site shows a restored converted pontoon, but whether this is still afloat is another matter.

 

Well, I thought my query might raise the od reply but I am delighted that this has raised so many points.

 

Thanks again

 

Joseph

[Pluto]

The PIBRA in 1946, probably near to Foulridge.

[David Mack]

Well, surprised to see the photos of converted lifeboats, but great to see them! The ones I recall were clinker built - these look like metal?

 

I too remember clinker built lifeboat conversions as well as carvel built boats (which may or may not have been lifeboats originally. I suspect that the vast majority of the wooden hull conversions have gone the same way as other wooden canal boats. But there were a fair few riveted aluminium boats too, and it is these that have survived.

[madcat]

I think asking the Mersey Motorboat Club , think that's their name . An old friend sadly now departed , told me about his father owning a pleasure boat kept on the Leeds Liverpool canal . At that time the family lived at Maghull.

[nebulae]

Local tradition was that our boat came from a W.D. sale. The old carvel boat we had was canoe stern and a prop shaft was a later addition. So,a rowing/sailing boat. Most naval training as opposed to ships boats boats I remember were transom stern,so our boat ,probably carried on a warship.,.From very old memory,I remember the float at Portsmouth full of ships boats from scrapped vessels. Many of them were carvel construction, Does this mean that the navy used carvel construction for most ships boats?. I remember a scrap yard in Portsmouth harbour had vast quantities of pontoons stacked in their yard, From memory,they were £30.00 each.This would be late 50"s early 60"s.