£20k crowdfund appeal

[David Mack]

The informed answer to the question "Is money received in response to such an appeal taxable?" is 'it depends'

it depends on what DavidMack means by "such an appeal" and it also depends on other factors that we do not know

I mean the £20k crowdfunding appeal which gave rise to this thread. If he (as an individual, not a registered charity) receives money from 'well-wishers' is that taxable income or not? Is he required to declare it under Self Assessment? Clearly it it not earnings, and would presumably be classed as some sort of gift. If it is potentially taxable then whether he actually should pay any tax on it would then depend on factors like what other income and allowances he has.

[Paul C]

Gifts aren't taxable.

[Jerra]

Gifts aren't taxable.

Aren't they? I always was given to understand that if you gave say your son £10,000 they had to declare it as income. Have I been misinformed?

[Paul C]

I always thought gifts aren't taxable - but I wasn't sure, so I googled it and it confirmed for me they're not taxable. There's rules relating to inheritence gains tax if the gift is from an eg parent then they die in the next 7 years, but obviously this would not apply to this particular case of the London boater we're discussing on this thread.

[Lily Rose]

Aren't they? I always was given to understand that if you gave say your son £10,000 they had to declare it as income. Have I been misinformed?

Yes.

 

You can give away as much of your money as you like to anyone. The only liability to tax is inheritance tax for your estate if you fail to live for a further 7 years after the date of the gift. This assumes your estate is over the IHT threshold, currently £325k (£650k for a married couple).

[GUMPY]

However he is providing a service (healing) in exhange for the "gifts" does this not make it income?

If it doesn't then maybe I should ask my clients to make a gift in exchange for my services, that might reduce my tax

Edited September 3, 2015 by Loddon

[Paul C]

However he is providing a service (healing) in exhange for the "gifts" does this not make it income?

If it doesn't then maybe I should ask my clients to make a gift in exchange for my services, that might reduce my tax

 

Good point, but I think you'd need to value the service to see if its just a friendly gesture in return, or an underhand purchase of that service.

 

For example, if I go round to my parents and they give me some money as a gift/birthday present, but then ask me to go up into the loft to get something down, you could safely say its a gift; and a friendly gesture in return. While getting something from the loft is handy for them, pragmatically its not really a chargeable service.

 

However, if I were to go on the internet and advertise for "gifts", in exchange for diagnostics or servicing their car, then you'd its a bit of a scam and in fact I'm a mechanic of some kind, looking to circumvent some laws. And that those gifts are in fact a monetary payment, for a clearly defined service which would cost sometihng at a garage.

 

This case is somewhere in between - he's going on the internet looking for "friends" who in fact don't know him and are simply giving money to him, but the return of a service is a bit of a red herring because I believe its actually worthless. There are healers etc who do provide a service >£0 value, but I'd argue that those are a minority which probably also have experience and/or qualifications and/or accreditation with a relevant body.

[LoneWolf]

I mean the £20k crowdfunding appeal which gave rise to this thread. If he (as an individual, not a registered charity) receives money from 'well-wishers' is that taxable income or not? Is he required to declare it under Self Assessment? Clearly it it not earnings, and would presumably be classed as some sort of gift. If it is potentially taxable then whether he actually should pay any tax on it would then depend on factors like what other income and allowances he has.

 

ok, no under those circumstances it is not taxable

 

If however, Mr Gopal offered healing in return for gifts and healing was his trade then it would probably be taxable

 

 

Aren't they? I always was given to understand that if you gave say your son £10,000 they had to declare it as income. Have I been misinformed?

 

Prima facie, no, it would not be subject to income tax on your son

 

There are circumstances where it could be taxable as income of your son though. these would be if he 'earned' it somehow eg by working unofficially in your business

 

It is a PET (potentially exempt transfer) for IHT though which means it, or a proportion it it, would be included in your estate if you died within 7 years.

although, if you gave it to him on the occasion of his marriage, then some of it (i cant be arsed to look up the exact amount) would not be liable to IHT.

And of course you have your 'free gifts' amount per year as well which could reduce the taxable amount further

 

As you can see, sometimes tax is a bit more complicated than some folk on here realise

 

Yes.

 

You can give away as much of your money as you like to anyone. The only liability to tax is inheritance tax for your estate if you fail to live for a further 7 years after the date of the gift. This assumes your estate is over the IHT threshold, currently £325k (£650k for a married couple).

 

Not forgetting that if you were in the habit of giving regularish amounts to the same person out of your normal income then it would not be liable to IHT

[LoneWolf]

However he is providing a service (healing) in exhange for the "gifts" does this not make it income?

If it doesn't then maybe I should ask my clients to make a gift in exchange for my services, that might reduce my tax

 

Ah, it was you that mentioned it. see below in red for the bit you need to make the answer to your question yes

 

 

Good point, but I think you'd need to value the service to see if its just a friendly gesture in return, or an underhand purchase of that service.

 

For example, if I go round to my parents and they give me some money as a gift/birthday present, but then ask me to go up into the loft to get something down, you could safely say its a gift; and a friendly gesture in return. While getting something from the loft is handy for them, pragmatically its not really a chargeable service.

 

However, if I were to go on the internet and advertise for "gifts", in exchange for diagnostics or servicing their car, then you'd its a bit of a scam and in fact I'm a mechanic of some kind, looking to circumvent some laws. And that those gifts are in fact a monetary payment, for a clearly defined service which would cost sometihng at a garage.

 

This case is somewhere in between - he's going on the internet looking for "friends" who in fact don't know him and are simply giving money to him, but the return of a service is a bit of a red herring because I believe its actually worthless. There are healers etc who do provide a service >£0 value, but I'd argue that those are a minority which probably also have experience and/or qualifications and/or accreditation with a relevant body.

 

this is one of the key facts

 

the fact that his healing may be worthless is neither here nor there if it is what his trade is

[Paul C]

 

Ah, it was you that mentioned it. see below in red for the bit you need to make the answer to your question yes

 

 

this is one of the key facts

 

the fact that his healing may be worthless is neither here nor there if it is what his trade is

 

Agree - and concede to your greater knowhow here. Gifts aren't taxable, but by offering the worthless healing he's in fact turning it from a gift into a payment for service - thus making it taxable. I wonder how many people take up the offer of the healing session?

[Arthur Marshall]

Aren't they? I always was given to understand that if you gave say your son £10,000 they had to declare it as income. Have I been misinformed?

The £10000 isn't taxable, what would be taxable is any interest that he earned on it when he invested it. Same as when you inherit money - the dosh itself isn't taxable, but any interest that accrues is. Inheritance tax is different - it's on the estate of the deceased, not the receiver. Of course, sometimes you have to flog everything you inherited in order to pay it...

[MtB]

The £10000 isn't taxable, what would be taxable is any interest that he earned on it when he invested it. Same as when you inherit money - the dosh itself isn't taxable, but any interest that accrues is. Inheritance tax is different - it's on the estate of the deceased, not the receiver. Of course, sometimes you have to flog everything you inherited in order to pay it...

 

 

My understanding too. The gift is not subject to income tax but if the donor dies within 7 years, it is treated as inheritance tax avoidance and is added back into the donor's estate.

 

Or something like that. No doubt Ms Wolf will be along soon the tell me I'm wrong on this!

[LoneWolf]

 

 

My understanding too. The gift is not subject to income tax but if the donor dies within 7 years, it is treated as inheritance tax avoidance and is added back into the donor's estate.

 

Or something like that. No doubt Ms Wolf will be along soon the tell me I'm wrong on this!

 

see my earlier post

 

"treated as IHT avoidance" made me shudder tho - if you google "Potentially Exempt Transfer" and IHT you can find the rules

 

HTH

[LoneWolf]

 

Agree - and concede to your greater knowhow here. Gifts aren't taxable, but by offering the worthless healing he's in fact turning it from a gift into a payment for service - thus making it taxable. I wonder how many people take up the offer of the healing session?

 

yes, a payment for a service that is his trade

i could offer you non-worthless healing in return for a 'donation' but it would not be taxable because i dont trade as a healer

 

 

btw, it may not be worthless healing. Not all the newagey therapies are nonsense as many believe.

I wouldnt have high expectations of this chap's healing efficacy though - i dont think a genuine healer would make such an appeal

[GreyLady]

One of the last suckers posted ' but Gopal did not ask for funding we perswaded him too' falls over with a diizy spell of lurve

 

Maybe i am taking a different kind of drug than them.

Edited September 8, 2015 by grumpy146

[Starcoaster]

One of today's gems from the donor comments:

 

 

 

£15.00

8/31/2015

from Anonymous

The crow is flying, it's just a question of the density of it's surroundings

 

Not sure whether to laugh or cry...

[GreyLady]

One of today's gems from the donor comments:

 

 

Not sure whether to laugh or cry...

 

it makes me feel sick about what is on the other side of my letter box Starcoaster.

[Machpoint005]

 

yes, a payment for a service that is his trade

i could offer you non-worthless healing in return for a 'donation' but it would not be taxable because i dont trade as a healer

 

 

btw, it may not be worthless healing. Not all the newagey therapies are nonsense as many believe.

I wouldnt have high expectations of this chap's healing efficacy though - i dont think a genuine healer would make such an appeal

 

Name one?

(other than a well-disguised placebo effect)

[LoneWolf]

 

Name one?

(other than a well-disguised placebo effect)

 

reiki

[kris88]

Acupuncture.

[GreyLady]

Hypnosis

 

Edited September 9, 2015 by grumpy146

[Starcoaster]

He's updated on YouCaring (now over £6k)...

 

 

Posted on September 14, 2015 by Gopal Das

I'd like to say a massive thank you to everyone who has donated to saving my home & apologise for the relative radio silence but it's been all go since the last video was posted.

Latest news from the water

The Crow, as you probably know is floating again (if you didn't, check out the videos: -_-www.facebook.com-_-pages-_-Shamanic-YOUniverse-_-1572453269639550?sk=videos'>click here)

I have moved her to Hackney where I have, with the help of some visitors been cleaning out the mud & silt from the bilges. It's a pretty nasty job requiring all the floor panels to be taken up & the stone I'm using for ballast (the weights in the bottom of the boat that gives her stability & keep her sitting nice & low in the water) removing, cleaning & replacing after the hull was thoroughly scrubbed. Not a nice job but it has stopped the boat stinking like rotten feet.

A lot of building materials were ruined by the dirty water. Wood was warped & waterlogged, all of the panelling below the gunwales (Pronounced gunnels: the lip one walks on half way up the outside boat where the cabin joins the hull) had to come out. I'll still be able to use them as templates to make new ones so that will make the job quicker the second time around. My beautiful custom made bed that took Justin Crowe (my boat builder) 2 days to build is luckily salvageable. It needs sanding back to clean up the wood & I'm half way through that but unfortunately, I will have to cut some of the frame to remove it in order to get to the panelling behind that needs replacing. The mattress was horrible: a stinking sponge full of dirty ditch-water. Canal & River Trust kindly disposed of all the rubbish for me. They came with a van & took it all away. I'm so grateful to Mikaeka for organising that. I won't be so grumpy when paying my license this year

I have replaced a few things already with some of the money raised.
It cost £1600 to re-float the boat.
I've spent £655 on tools & essentials for the boat like the solar charge controller & extension cables
I replaced other essentials for my business like a laptop which was £350, tarot cards & a few other bits for about £50
& I have to repay my Uncle the £2K he loaned me when the boat originally sunk.
once I've bought some wood & other materials to build the kitchen I'll be down to the last few quid so I'm reminding everyone that I'm offering free Tarot readings & healing in exchange for donations to this fund-raiser.

I've started doing readings for donors already. Mostly by phone or Skype. Do let me know when you want yours. Healings can be done over distance too but nicer, I think, in person. If you want to give your session away as a gift or save it for your birthday or when you feel you really need it; that's ok. Just let me know when & we'll arrange something. I'm happiest when in service doing healings & readings so please share this among your friends & networks.

I'll keep you posted on my progress & in the mean time if you'd like to come down & lend a practical hand, that would be amazing. I'm also going to need a place to stay from September 28th so if you know someone who's going away & needs a house sitter in London. I can water cats & feed plants.

Thanks again. I wish you so many blessings. We are the change we want to see in the world.

Wait, what, so if the 2k from the Uncle went on the boat, where is that explained?

If not, how come his "fix my boat" Crowdfund money was admittedly spent on something else?

[larkshall]

For gods sake hasn't anyone rumbled this guy, and taken his begging bowl offline yet?

[Alenafour]

He's updated on YouCaring (now over £6k)...

 

Wait, what, so if the 2k from the Uncle went on the boat, where is that explained?

If not, how come his "fix my boat" Crowdfund money was admittedly spent on something else?

 

Seems like a very reasonably report to me. If your boat sunk, unexpectedly, do you not think that £2,000 might be needed to refloat and move it and cover your expenses in the meantime?

 

The rest of his report also seems believable, I haven't noticed where it says "thanks for the caribbean holiday folks". No, he is using what is not a huge amount of money to put his life back together.

 

Has nobody helped you along the way towards your boat ownership? Either in kind of with money?

 

That you don't accept that being a healer is a valid vocation is no reason for this internet flaming war.

 

Good luck to him.

[Graham Davis]

 

Seems like a very reasonably report to me. If your boat sunk, unexpectedly, do you not think that £2,000 might be needed to refloat and move it and cover your expenses in the meantime?

 

The rest of his report also seems believable, I haven't noticed where it says "thanks for the caribbean holiday folks". No, he is using what is not a huge amount of money to put his life back together.

 

Has nobody helped you along the way towards your boat ownership? Either in kind of with money?

 

That you don't accept that being a healer is a valid vocation is no reason for this internet flaming war.

 

Good luck to him.

 

Oh what a surprise!!

Have you bothered to read the whole thread?

The whole thing is a con!!