Am I going to die...

[Richardcn]

Well OBVIOUSLY I am but now that I have your full attention....

 

Am I going to die coughing and spluttering from the exhaust fumes if I (we) buy a boat with a traditional engine room (ie with the exhaust coming out of the roof ahead of us). You see I'm sort of taking a liking to this type of boat for many reasons, engine access, space for all my tools (as I will need LOTS of tools AND stuff won't I - I have told her indoors that will be the case so I need to be right on that point ), space for wet and muddy things (like the dog!), and also the fact that many come with a 'boatman's cabin' which is good for MORE storage of STUFF but particularly useful for bored teenagers and visiting grandchildren!

 

So having purchased said type of boat will I later (particularly as a liveaboard) regret this decision because of the amount of time I will not be breathing the fresh air of the countryside (and looking like ). As I see it unless I can have an exhaust extension that is high enough to take the fumes clear and flexible enough to not get knocked off or damaged, when I inevitably forget to remove it for a low bridge, then there is quite a high risk of breathing said fumes. On any 'no wind' day, or headwind leg or if travelling with tall vegetation on either side, the fumes are surely going to get me are they not? Btw this is a serious question that I am asking here, I am genuinely concerned and would like to hear peoples experiences and thoughts, especially liveaboard or long distance cruisers. I know I'll probably get some grief for asking this question (I searched all I could before posting) but I'll take the flack if I can get some good advice in between.

 

Thanks

Richard

[nicknorman]

Bearing in mind you are only doing 3 mph on most canals, if there is any significant wind this is likely to blow the exhaust away from your face, except when it is from dead ahead. But most canals are twisty so that won't last long. It is barely any different from having a solid fuel stove (different because the chimney is probably that much further ahead, but on the other hand the fumes from burning even smokeless coal is far worse than from an engine)

 

I think far more important is the nature of the exhaust emissions. Plenty of boats with an exhaust at the side manage to surround their steelers in blue haze especially in locks. So for me it is about having a clean burning ie well set up and maintained engine, rather than where the exhaust exits.

[mrsmelly]

Huge can of worms but my two penneth. I wudnt have a clunk clunk engine and boatmans cupboard for all the tea in China. They are ok for hobby boaters I suppose but not for liveaboards. I have a quiet modern smooth engine running in the back doing all kinds of leccy stuff. Boatmans cupboards are useless to sleep in and poor storage. Usualy too deep a draught for todays use also but of course others who mistakenly bought clunk clunks will disagree,

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

Bearing in mind you are only doing 3 mph on most canals, if there is any significant wind this is likely to blow the exhaust away from your face, except when it is from dead ahead. But most canals are twisty so that won't last long. It is barely any different from having a solid fuel stove (different because the chimney is probably that much further ahead, but on the other hand the fumes from burning even smokeless coal is far worse than from an engine)

 

I think far more important is the nature of the exhaust emissions. Plenty of boats with an exhaust at the side manage to surround their steelers in blue haze especially in locks. So for me it is about having a clean burning ie well set up and maintained engine, rather than where the exhaust exits.

 

But with a traditional arrangement you are under assault from both - the vertical exhaust maybe 9 or 10 feet in front of you, and a smoking range chimney more like 9 or 10 inches from you!

 

If I'm honest, neither are particularly likely to increase your lifespan, but if I'm going to die, at least it will be as a result of following a passion!

[Guest]

Well OBVIOUSLY I am but now that I have your full attention....

Am I going to die coughing and spluttering from the exhaust fumes if I (we) buy a boat with a traditional engine room (ie with the exhaust coming out of the roof ahead of us). You see I'm sort of taking a liking to this type of boat for many reasons, engine access, space for all my tools (as I will need LOTS of tools AND stuff won't I - I have told her indoors that will be the case so I need to be right on that point ), space for wet and muddy things (like the dog!), and also the fact that many come with a 'boatman's cabin' which is good for MORE storage of STUFF but particularly useful for bored teenagers and visiting grandchildren!

So having purchased said type of boat will I later (particularly as a liveaboard) regret this decision because of the amount of time I will not be breathing the fresh air of the countryside (and looking like ). As I see it unless I can have an exhaust extension that is high enough to take the fumes clear and flexible enough to not get knocked off or damaged, when I inevitably forget to remove it for a low bridge, then there is quite a high risk of breathing said fumes. On any 'no wind' day, or headwind leg or if travelling with tall vegetation on either side, the fumes are surely going to get me are they not? Btw this is a serious question that I am asking here, I am genuinely concerned and would like to hear peoples experiences and thoughts, especially liveaboard or long distance cruisers. I know I'll probably get some grief for asking this question (I searched all I could before posting) but I'll take the flack if I can get some good advice in between.

Thanks

Richard

Sorry but your question is bordering on the ridiculous. And based on your previous questions I honestly think you are over analysing this whole boat purchase thing......perhaps boat ownership is not for you?

[matty40s]

yes,

but you will die happy having enjoyed your boating

[FadeToScarlet]

Yes, you will die.

 

But probably not from exhaust fumes.

 

I think far more important is the nature of the exhaust emissions. Plenty of boats with an exhaust at the side manage to surround their steelers in blue haze especially in locks. So for me it is about having a clean burning ie well set up and maintained engine, rather than where the exhaust exits.

I don't know, I find the extra crunchy bits of un burnt carbon from a Bolinder make tea and sandwiches much more tasty.....

[springy]

Historically most boats would have had two or even three external exhaust pipes of

varying lengths - a Titch is barely tall enough for its brass bands but would get under

most bridges, a Tallpipe would take the exhaust up over the steerers head and is

great on the shroppie, but on the bcn would need removing regularly.

 

Alternatively there are many ingenious hinged exhausts out there, some cable

operated, some just counterbalanced, - remember that as the hinged joint is

outside the cabin space it doesnt have to be gas tight - it just has to guide

the fumes over your head

 

springy

[alan_fincher]

Sorry but your question is bordering on the ridiculous. And based on your previous questions I honestly think you are over analysing this whole boat purchase thing......perhaps boat ownership is not for you?

Is it though?

 

My understanding is that at least one of the top end builders of boats that are near replicas of working boat designs is very reticent to fit engine roof mounted exhausts because of potential health risks.

 

Depends on many factors, of course, not least type and condition of actual engine used, but as I can come out of a tunnel with my eyes streaming, I hardly see it as an invented risk.

[jonesthenuke]

Buy the boat and enjoy it.

Just check to see how smokey the engine is. We had some worries with ours after buying it as we got it mid winter and it took some time to warm up, but now we are not to concerned. However some engines will make more smoke than others and you should ensure you understand what you are getting.

[Guest]

Is it though?

My understanding is that at least one of the top end builders of boats that are near replicas of working boat designs is very reticent to fit engine roof mounted exhausts because of potential health risks.

Depends on many factors, of course, not least type and condition of actual engine used, but as I can come out of a tunnel with my eyes streaming, I hardly see it as an invented risk.

Gas mask?

[Alan Saunders]

Yes, a vertical smokestack will envelop the steerer in diesel exhaust fumes occasionally, depending on wind direction. I like the smell of the diesel exhaust if it is not too smoky.

 

Either a dry or wet exhaust exiting from the counter should not be a problem, except for the most sensitive flowers, in locks and tunnels.

 

Alan

[alan_fincher]

Either a dry or wet exhaust exiting from the counter should not be a problem, except for the most sensitive flowers, in locks and tunnels.

 

Or those who buy old Springers that still have Ducati engines?

[FadeToScarlet]

It is also possible to have a diverter, and have two exhaust outlets- one on the hull side, one on the cabin top- so you can prevent it blowing in your face when the wind's wrong, etc.

 

Pity the poor Severner steerers, with a Petter semi diesel exhaust coming up to about 12 inches from the left ear.

[Richardcn]

Sorry but your question is bordering on the ridiculous. And based on your previous questions I honestly think you are over analysing this whole boat purchase thing......perhaps boat ownership is not for you?

Hi Martin

 

But I like to analyse , it makes me happy and it's one of the few things that I am actually any good at (I think! ) As to whether my level of analysing is 'over analysing' or as to whether it is an indicator that boat ownership is not for me (us) is probably not something that I will be relying on somebody that I don't know to tell me whilst I am in the midst of said analysing. Some people like to jump in feet first and damn the consequences, some like to parachute (after sending out a pre-recce party to check the lie of the ground). I'm guessing that you are more the former and me the latter but hopefully there is enough remaining space on the canals for both of us

 

Regards

Richard

Gas mask?

I almost got away with a proper one of these when I left the RAF but it's surprising how tight fisted they become when you are no longer part of the brotherhood!

 

Richard

yes,

but you will die happy having enjoyed your boating

This I am beginning to believe

 

Richard

Historically most boats would have had two or even three external exhaust pipes of

varying lengths - a Titch is barely tall enough for its brass bands but would get under

most bridges, a Tallpipe would take the exhaust up over the steerers head and is

great on the shroppie, but on the bcn would need removing regularly.

 

Alternatively there are many ingenious hinged exhausts out there, some cable

operated, some just counterbalanced, - remember that as the hinged joint is

outside the cabin space it doesnt have to be gas tight - it just has to guide

the fumes over your head

 

springy

There we go, problem solved in one fell swoop I believe, thanks

 

Richard

[Guest]

Hi Martin

But I like to analyse , it makes me happy and it's one of the few things that I am actually any good at (I think! ) As to whether my level of analysing is 'over analysing' or as to whether it is an indicator that boat ownership is not for me (us) is probably not something that I will be relying on somebody that I don't know to tell me whilst I am in the midst of said analysing. Some people like to jump in feet first and damn the consequences, some like to parachute (after sending out a pre-recce party to check the lie of the ground). I'm guessing that you are more the former and me the latter but hopefully there is enough remaining space on the canals for both of us

Regards

Richard

Richard

My point was if you analysed each and every aspect of boat design and expect it to be perfect you are wasting your time. Compromise is inevitable.

 

But anyway you bat on. You obviously know what you want..

[gary955]

Sorry but your question is bordering on the ridiculous. And based on your previous questions I honestly think you are over analysing this whole boat purchase thing......perhaps boat ownership is not for you?

I wonder why your default position is so frequently rudeness and scorn?

[Richardcn]

My point was if you analysed each and every aspect of boat design and expect it to be perfect you are wasting your time. Compromise is inevitable.

But anyway you bat on. You obviously know what you want..

There is no expectation of perfection, merely a desire to understand! No doubt, at some time in the past, you knew nothing of this game either and I'm sure that you were keen to learn and to try and make as many good decisions as you could whilst, of course, understanding that you would fail on some occasions, c'est la vie!

 

Richard

[Guest]

Night guys, I will leave you both to it.

 

Good luck in your search Richard...

Edited April 26, 2015 by MJG

[Ange]

 

Hi Martin

 

But I like to analyse , it makes me happy and it's one of the few things that I am actually any good at (I think! ) As to whether my level of analysing is 'over analysing' or as to whether it is an indicator that boat ownership is not for me (us) is probably not something that I will be relying on somebody that I don't know to tell me whilst I am in the midst of said analysing. Some people like to jump in feet first and damn the consequences, some like to parachute (after sending out a pre-recce party to check the lie of the ground). I'm guessing that you are more the former and me the latter but hopefully there is enough remaining space on the canals for both of us

 

Regards

Richard

I'm loving your attitude and commitment.

 

Best of luck to you - though I suspect with the thoroughness of your research not much will be down to luck

 

Edit I'm on the tablet and totally sodded up the quotes!

 

I hope it's understandable cos its late and I can't figure out how to fix it

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ange

[Paul C]

You won't die, but it might annoy you. Depending on what has been burning in the stove, I sometimes find its smell in the morning annoying when cruising, and that's a long way away. Diesel engine fumes aren't that bad though.

 

Its a shame there are so few "traditional" style narrowboats which are available for hire any more - as in, trad stern, boatman's cabin, engine room with vintage engine, etc etc.

[junior]

I wudnt have a clunk clunk engine and boatmans cupboard for all the tea in China. They are ok for hobby boaters I suppose but not for liveaboards.

 

Tim

Bollocks.

[blackrose]

I think it's a reasonable question. You can always let the stove go out when you move, but there's not much one can do about a roof mounted exhaust other than diverting it. The traditionalists might like it, but breathing in all that particulate matter from diesel exhaust for 8 hours a day isn't my idea of fun and may well affect you depending upon how often you breathe it and any health predispositions.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2012/06june/Pages/who-classes-diesel-vehicle-exhaust-fumes-as-carcinogen.aspx

Edited April 27, 2015 by blackrose

[Peter-Bullfinch]

We use a hinged engine exhaust stack which is counterbalanced and operated by a rope clipped to the top. It was fairly easy to make and very effective. In winter I do have to admit the back cabin chimney is very near my steering spot and whilst I keep lovely and warm the smoke sometimes drifts near.One solution for us seems to be to keep the stove fire quite strong and use coal rather than wood. The stove is a relatively small Carabo.

[blackrose]

Bollocks.

A well-formulated argument.