Richardcn

Thank you Tony. You're advice is always of the highest quality I find. I will check the cells in a week or so once we're back in the water. I used to check and record the SG regularly but nothing ever really changed and I slipped out of the habit. Even if I do find that everything is in actually in order with this cell I think I'll get back into that habit! Thanks also for the advice on Lead Carbon's. I deliberately held back from replacing our current batteries with these as I'm fully aware what sh1t is spouted by battery manufacturers and vendors alike. Maybe I'll just stick with good old 6v deep cycle. I will, however, be a lot fussier about the state of them when I purchase the next time though! Regards Richard

Thank you for the wise advice gentlemen. I've seen no indication of external corrosion, excess heat or case distortion but I do have a temp probe fitted so I will monitor that more closely and carry out physical checks over over the coming weeks, once we're back in the water. Meanwhile charging voltages will be turned right down until we're back aboard. There is the (small) possibility that I just underwatered that cell at the last top-up and so all may be well, if we're really lucky! However, I won't be taking any unnecessary risks and as we were on the verge of replacing them (due to reduced capacity) any sign of problems (now that they are fully watered) and they'll be off to the scrappy. That will, of course, mean that I have to battle with SWMBO over cheap & 'consumable' versus not cheap & not so 'consumable'. Plus, if I were to win that particular 'discussion' then I'd have to consider Lead Carbon and revisit all that research. Do feel free to add your thoughts on that if you like.

A brief update for anybody that still interested. I topped up the batteries today and found that they were all at about minimum levels. Our early evening post-solar voltages always indicate to me the need for a top-up if we've not reached out scheduled check before that. However, one cell of 3 (they're 6v batteries), was below minimum with plates exposed. I do check routinely, moreso in the summer, so this appears to be a problem with that particular cell. It's very possible (likely) that this has led to extra gassing which was affecting our CO monitor. I'm still not sure how it's finding it's way into the front cabin when there are some many easier routes of ventilation in the engine room but I have to accept that it may well be doing so. Only time will tell if the low fluid is a sign of the beginning of the end for pair of batteries or if the low fluid itself has caused harm. I'll have to keep a closer eye on it but, for now anyway, the batteries are still performing the same as before. Yes, harder charging means more water but I'm used to that and usually well on top of it. This time, maybe because one cell is failing, I've been caught out but you live and learn I suppose. Hopefully others, with similar charging routines will benefit from our experience. Regards Richard

No not at all. Feel free to post. Apologies if I misinterpreted or misunderstood you. Regards Richard

How did you discover this? We have no way of knowing that the batteries were producing H2S, that is purely an assumption on your part. Indeed, from what I understand having done some research, H2S will tend to have the smell of rotten eggs which we have not had at all. Also, H2S is heavier than air (apparently) and thus would stay in the battery box/floor level and thus highly unlikely to reach our CO monitor. It is completely normal for 'open' lead acid batteries to produce some Hydrogen when charging (which is lighter than air) and that is sufficient to cause a reading on a CO monitor. Older batteries may produce significantly more Hydrogen, which I already knew (but had forgotten). I did already admit that I may have been a bit slow to come out of our Winter regime and maybe the batteries are 'older' (in terms of usage) than I realised so this may have been the cause of our CO readings. It would have been nice to see an admission that you mistakenly identified our batteries as 'sealed' which seemed to be the point at which further assumptions were made (or escalated). Whilst I appreciate all advice given (always have and always will) I do wish people wouldn't see the need to blow things out of proportion based on assumptions. Anyway, no hard feelings, life's too short and all that jazz. Regards Richard

I don't think I said that they were sealed, did I? The only 'sealed' I mentioned was the door. I just said FLA IIRC. Manufacturer recommends 14.1v - 15v charging (at 25C) held for 2-3 hours at the end and that doesn't even take into account any adjustment for the temperature, with ours generally sitting at about 10C or somewhat lower in mid Winter! As I mentioned, this is the Solar charge setting and as we all know there is precious little of that to be had in Winter. Hence that 15v is not often reached and if it is it's not for very long. To add to that the Manufacturer recommends that "if cycled daily, an equalisation charge of 15.6v should be applied every 2 weeks" (yes 2 weekly). I'm happy that I'm well within charging guidelines for our batteries thanks.

No, it's from solar which (charge voltage) I adjust to suit the season. I've probably been a bit slow to dial it down this year but we have been moored in very open locations and we are overspec'd to keep us charged for as many months as possible, it saves running the dreaded genny (currently kaput!).

No Well that sounds highly unpleasant and I won't downplay something that I have little knowledge of but I don't know quite how much it takes to show a false reading on a CO monitor. We certainly haven't been getting any unusual symptoms so I'd hope that we've not suffered any harm. I'll certainly do some research though. I can't imagine that we're the only boat to ever suffer from this, IF this turns out to be the cause of our readings. We'll have to wait and see. Thanks for the heads up though. I will just add that the boat is in its original layout of many years, batteries are below the floor (with vent holes) in the engine room. There are lots of air gaps down that end of the boat and a fairly well 'sealed' door between that and the rest of the cabin space. It's always closed during the cold months and open (apart from overnight) during the warmer months as Harvey the cat loves sleeping down there when it's warmer. We've changed nothing between the batteries and us, just refurbished the fireplace. I can't really work out what has changed to create the situation but we are fairly risk averse so we will keep plugging away until we resolve the situation. We continually check our CO monitors and immediately ventilate whenever necessary which, apart from this new issue, is not that often. Having said about a year ago we realised that our grill needed servicing as it was also giving us CO readings but this is unrelated as we rarely use the grill in the day and it's been fixed anyhow. Richard

Hi again all. For some reason I stopped getting notifications on this thread so I apologise for not replying at all. There has been some progress however! Whilst I was unable to properly access the rear plate to check for leaks due to the temperature of the stove (and the desire not to make the manageable situation any worse while the stove was still a critical system) I thought I'd double check something, just to rule it out 100% and I think I've discovered the culprit. Although I still have to prove my theory (without any doubt) by deliberately recreating the problem it appears that it was a false positive caused by hydrogen from the batteries gassing. I really don't know how the gas is making it all the way up the boat from the engine room, avoiding tripping the CO detector in the back cabin (which is open to the engine room), avoiding tripping the CO detector in the bedroom (behind a closed door with brush seals but on the other side of the room) but since I've dialled down the solar charging voltage to 14.4v from my Winter setting of 15v we have had absolutely ZERO CO readings! I did wonder much earlier if this was the cause, given the timing of the positive readings but I had discounted it by opening up the back end of the boat (sliding hatch & side hatch) when we had a reading of 20ish one day. The reading didn't go away as quickly I as I thought it should have but maybe I was a bit too hasty to discount it as a possibility. It certainly seems that way now, anyway. It might be a week or two before I get to do the final test as we're out for blacking very soon but I will post back the result. Thanks again for your suggestions in the interim. Regards Richard PS. I should just add that our FLA batteries are pretty old now and also they are due to be topped up so, in addition to the high charging voltage, the gassing may well be much higher than the norm.

Yes, worry not, I am not going to delay unnecessarily. I have already had a good look (with the heat shield still fitted) and to be honest I don't think that's the problem. It doesn't look any different to when I inspected it last year and I did put a bead of Envirograf around the plate for good measure. Of course, things fail and so I'm open minded as yet but I can't see any obvious movement of the plate or any gap and I don't want to go thumping around with a fire burning and then also leave us with no heating and no spare plate to fit (maybe I'll order the parts just in case). I was trying to remember that info as I was typing my previous reply. Pretty sure we have had a decent monitor there from very early on. Very probably after getting good advice from herein! (My god I did read A LOT on here back then 🧐). We didn't, however, have the 3 monitors that we now have with the one in the back cabin letting me know when the batteries are being thoroughly charged 😆

You may well be on to something there. The only evidence that I have to counter that argument is that we never had the problem before, not in all our (meagre) years of boating. Our particular problem showed it's ugly face again today, regular as clockwork, even though the stove was still pretty warm and obviously burning (the flue was still hottish). The only difference to any other time of the day is that the fuel is old (last added about 8pm yesterday) and there is plenty of ash in the chamber (ie not riddled). We went out leaving 3 hoppers open (deliberately) and the level was about 16ppm on our return. Without the windows open I've no doubt we would have been up in the 30's or more! 🥺 Since I stoked it up again late pm the problem has, once again, disappeared. I'll probably reseal the bottom door tomorrow as I wasn't completely happy with my first attempt, a bit too much glue. I doubt it will solve the problem though as any extra air gap at the bottom just makes the fire draw more. It's another thing ticked off though, until I can check the rear plate (awaiting a mild(er) day). I may try taping up the panel joints with aluminium tape at some point, maybe one at a time, to see if that's the cause. I'll update as I go. Thank you for your input. Richard

I often wondered about that potential problem.. which is why we have only a bog standard hat. Good point though👍

Yes I clean and vacuum on and behind the throat plate with a special (not all THAT special) adaptor that I made up, having been caught out by a build up a few years ago. With regard to the period that we were away, I'm thinking that there was probably already a build up of CO when the boat was visited by family but (at that time) it was below the alarm threshold. They wouldn't have looked at the monitor, there would be no reason to, or so we thought 🥺. Maybe there was still 'combustion' taking place in the ashes? I know ash can stay hot for a long time (48hrs in my experience) if there is any unburnt fuel (coal) within the ash and it produced plenty of CO. As I said, I've tried a new alarm and the problem still exists. Two separate alarms were sounding on the fateful day but whilst the first reads from 10ppm the second only reads from 30ppm and is some distance from the stove (by my head in the bedroom!) so it rarely reads with our low level problem. Thanks for the suggestions though

I'll consider this if all else fails but I wonder if such a small leak would reveal itself unless I close off almost all other orifices? Envirograf on all the joints as my experience with using cement was that it was not fit for this particular purpose. The previous reducing collar cracked due to this, I believe. It was applied in stages to ensure proper curing and given more than the stated time as I didn't want to be coming back to redo it any time soon. We're approx 5 months post refurb now. Bet that was a bit of a shock! Ours seemed solid when I checked it but I did add a bead of Envirograf just in case. Of course, nothing lasts forever (not even National Insurance apparently 😆).

Ah that's good info. I'll take a closer look as soon as the stove is cooler. Thank you.

Hi All We're looking for some advice. (Apologies, in advance, for the long post) Before the heating season last year I refurbished our fireplace, replaced the flue and also did the glass and door seals on our Morso Squirrel 1410. However, we have a really frustrating problem now with what appears to be a small carbon monoxide leak. Annoyingly it only happens under very specific circumstances and as yet I cannot find the source. The stove was completely emptied and doors removed before it was VERY carefully moved a few feet away in order to access the fireplace, then equally carefully put back on the new hearth and bolted down with new brackets. A new stove collar, reducer & flue were then installed ensuring careful alignment, appropriate stove rope was used and it was all carefully sealed with high temp silicon (the PROPER high temp stuff). Before refitting I cleaned & examined the stove for cracks and then started blacking before the cold beat me. All seemed well, apart from the awful blacking smell but from time to time we'd notice the CO monitor closest to the stove would have a low reading (circa 20ppm). As we had some problems with our gas grill emitting CO (since fixed) we put it down to that and though nothing of it until a couple of weeks ago. We went away for 3 days leaving the fire well stacked and on a low setting, as we've often done over the years. However, on return the two CO alarms in the living area were screaming and reading circa 70ppm! We were astonished (and the cat was none to pleased 🥺) as the boat had been visited 24hrs earlier with no reports of any issue and by that time (approx 36hrs after departure) the stove would have been almost cold. Somehow during the remaining 24hrs before our return the alarms were triggered! Since then, having not discovered any obvious reason for the alarms, I've been troubleshooting, so far with no success. I've discounted Hydrogen from the batteries giving a false positive and also any new cracks or failed sealing on the flue and I've replaced the main door seal just in case but we still have the same problem. However, the problem ONLY arises when the fire is low mid morning onwards (whether by deliberate reduction of the air inlets or by lack of fuel) until whenever I stoke the fire to add warmth. Obviously we ventilate to zero the reading but once the fire is up to temp there will be no CO reading until the next time the fire is low the next day (if it's a mild day). We never find a positive reading in the night (I always check) and never find one in the morning even though with all the unseasonably mild weather the stove has been set to minimum air on the vents (top & bottom open half a turn), anything less and I risk it going out! My best guess is that we have a small leak from between two of the panels and that when the stove is hot it is drawing air in and when cool(er) then CO is leaking out. Has anybody had a similar problem or can suggest what might be the cause and how best to troubleshoot? I have brought a new CO monitor with the same results. Regards Richard

Thanks for all the help, sailed through today and no problem getting the top gate open. A gorgeous Spring(like) day, once the fog cleared, with plenty of folk out cruising including hire boats. Didn't think they appeared until Easter!

That's great news and thank you for the detailed info. We'll be heading through asap then

Excellent, thanks for the update.

That's the one. But as I said, is it still the case?

Hi All Has anybody got through Lock 2 in the last few days? A previous thread suggested that, although the (parallel Lock 3) closure notice says otherwise, boats were able to get through without a problem. It would be good to know if that's still the case. Ta

Hi All Can anybody confirm that it's still possible to get through Lock 2, as this thread suggests. The closure notice says otherwise and there is no mention of weekend bookings at all! Unless I'm missing something? It would be handy if we could get through before the 18th when it's scheduled to reopen. Ta

Many thanks for that Arthur. I think it's unlikely to be fully booked, just not available to book anymore. I checked all the bookings on our way and there were two boats booked over the whole of two weeks! Of course, people might just leave the booking until last minute but I doubt it. There weren't any boats booked on Mon IIRC so there might not be anybody there until our slot. Could be worth a punt but at this time of the year and with a frost forecast possibly not. Thanks anyway Richard We'll just have to short stop at Westport Lake and then Barlaston on Tue IF the cut isn't frozen over again by then! Richard

Well the jury is still out for us on that option. Although we'd wind on arrival and reverse to moor up the night before I think. In addition to this would somebody be kind enough to check online and see if there are any bookings available for Mon 16th Jan at 0900. We already have a booking and would like to bring it forward but it seems you have to cancel then rebook. I really don't want to do that and risk losing our existing 1100 booking if Mon is no longer available at this point (ie the 48hrs notice being 'working days' which is NOT stayed anywhere I could find). I did phone the firm and they couldn't do it (no access) and suggested that that Mon was (might be) fully booked! That would mean that 15 boats have booked in the last 48 hrs, unlikely! Can anybody have a quick look for us please. Thanks Richard

Hi All Does anybody know if it's possible to wind at the boatyard near Harding's Wood junction (by the aquaduct over the T & M)? Thinking of nipping up the Macc to overnight thus avoiding an icy lock before an early Harecastle Tunnel transit. We're 62ft btw. Thanks Richard