Working Boats still carrying

[pete harrison]

Even if it raises rather different emotions in the heart of the boater coming the other way.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

I just added an edit to that point whilst you were posting

[Athy]

I have boated both loaded and empty boats over the past 40+ years and I have never been aware of a loaded boat attracting more interest than an empty boat, not from the public's perspective anyway.

Perhaps I am not the public, Pete, but a loaded working boat always catches my eye - because it's a rare sight nowadays, and because I'm seeing it do the job it was built to do - rather as a steam loco heading a train is more interesting to me than one which is stuffed and mounted in a museum.

 

A loaded working pair, an even rarer sight, is perhaps the most interesting thing to be seen moving on our canals, even more eye-catching than a Steve Hudson boat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes, yes, I was joking all right, put me down.....

[pete harrison]

Why are they left unsheeted most of the time. Surely to preserve them you would want to keep the rain out

Preserving the boat and keeping the rain out are two separate issues.

 

Preservation is done by constant maintenance whereas keeping the rain out is done by 'sheeting up'.

 

I would only 'sheet up' a boat if I were to leave it unattended for a long period of time, and consequently I always have the boat 'unsheeted' (but with the cratch up) when boating or if I am on board. As an empty motor sits in the water with its stern end deep in the water but its fore end high all rain water runs back to the engine room bulkhead, and will run through the bulkhead if it not secure. This water builds up very quickly and requires frequent pumping out - but the boat looks right when 'unsheeted'.

[pete harrison]

Perhaps I am not the public, Pete, but a loaded working boat always catches my eye - because it's a rare sight nowadays, and because I'm seeing it do the job it was built to do - rather as a steam loco heading a train is more interesting to me than one which is stuffed and mounted in a museum.

 

A loaded working pair, an even rarer sight, is perhaps the most interesting thing to be seen moving on our canals, even more eye-catching than a Steve Hudson boat.

Maybe it is just my perception then as I have been asked as many questions about the boats when empty as when loaded. Having said that I have seen hundreds of loaded boats over the years and the modern retail coal market holds absolutely no interest to me (even though I have loaded and delivered retail coal in the past). I may also be a little behind the times as I have not been on an ex-working boat since 2007, or any other boat for that matter.

Edited November 2, 2014 by pete harrison

[Tam & Di]

Derwent and Everton are working in London AFAIK.

 

They are part of the fleet of craft owned/operated by our ex-partner Tim Wood as his current business Wood, Hall and Heward. They do carry freight from time to time, but the business is basically canal engineering and maintenance rather than freight carriage per se.

 

Tam

[furnessvale]

Why are they left unsheeted most of the time. Surely to preserve them you would want to keep the rain out

Just to add to Pete's comments, a fully clothed up boat is also a good condensation trap which does more harm to the inside of a boat than a bit of rain.

 

I have heard tales of boats being left clothed up for years and ending up like colanders.....I may be wrong but Coleshill springs to mind.

 

George ex nb Aton retired

[ditchcrawler]

Seeing ROACH at the BCNS Bonfire Gathering at Smethwick, I did wonder how many former working boats that still carry coal and fuel for boaters use.

 

I wonder if Laurence has the answer?

 

Ray Shill

Looking at the way he was moored, out side a row of boats and still a good 2' out from them and hard on the bottom its a wonder he can even move round the system

[Athy]

Looking at the way he was moored, out side a row of boats and still a good 2' out from them and hard on the bottom its a wonder he can even move round the system

That must be an incentive to sell lots of coal, so that he becomes high enough in the water to float away.

[alan_fincher]

Looking at the way he was moored, out side a row of boats and still a good 2' out from them and hard on the bottom its a wonder he can even move round the system

That must be an incentive to sell lots of coal, so that he becomes high enough in the water to float away.

As has been pointed out by some of those on here who actually operate coal boats, this is all a bit deceptive, though.

 

An empty motor boat will generally already be drawing approaching 3 feet at its back end, whilst in some cases the bow will be floating in that towering position that some have described, because the stem post is barely in the water.

 

It is possible to put a very substantial load on many of these motors, which will have the effect of increasing the front end draught from "a few inches" to "about 3 feet", whilst the back end draught remains throughout at "about 3 feet".

 

Once you have the boat now level, (as above), piling in each additional ton of cargo will then bring the whole boat down by an extra inch.

 

Many of the boats loading retail coal (and diesel) often don't put that much on that a static draught of much over 3' gets exceeded. So whilst the boat may be more "interesting", and certainly "heavier" to handle overall, in terms of will it actually float through a particular fouled up bridge hole, or over a lock cill when a pound is low, I would say there is often not a great deal to choose between a loaded and and unloaded motor.

 

Also John Jackson's "Roach", (pictured), being a Josher has very much shallower sides than say a "Grand Union" "Town class" boat, so unless you factor that into any estimate, the amount of dry side showing above the water will not actually tell you how much additional boat is lurking below the water. I wouldn't care to estimate the load on "Roach" in that picture, but it is not uncommon to see a Josher more deeply loaded than that, to the extent that the painted parts at the front end are actually partly in the water.

Edited November 2, 2014 by alan_fincher

[sarahavfc]

I encountered EMU carrying 17 tonnes of bagged coal from Alvecote to London, according to (I think) Mrs Pinnock.

 

Not sure why...

 

 

MtB

Emu was carrying for FMC Clover while it was undergoing a rebuild at Norton Canes.

 

Clover trades on the River Lea on behalf of South Island Marina at Ponders End who provide coal to various customers in the south and the Midlands.

[hughc]

Looking at the way he was moored, out side a row of boats and still a good 2' out from them and hard on the bottom its a wonder he can even move round the system

If people really wanted to see loaded pairs they wouldn't tie breasted on the outside of bends where the back end of the butty needs to swing. Regards, HughC.

[Leo No2]

 

As has been pointed out by some of those on here who actually operate coal boats, this is all a bit deceptive, though.

 

An empty motor boat will generally already be drawing approaching 3 feet at its back end, whilst in some cases the bow will be floating in that towering position that some have described, because the stem post is barely in the water.

 

It is possible to put a very substantial load on many of these motors, which will have the effect of increasing the front end draught from "a few inches" to "about 3 feet", whilst the back end draught remains throughout at "about 3 feet".

 

Once you have the boat now level, (as above), piling in each additional ton of cargo will then bring the whole boat down by an extra inch.

 

Many of the boats loading retail coal (and diesel) often don't put that much on that a static draught of much over 3' gets exceeded. So whilst the boat may be more "interesting", and certainly "heavier" to handle overall, in terms of will it actually float through a particular fouled up bridge hole, or over a lock cill when a pound is low, I would say there is often not a great deal to choose between a loaded and and unloaded motor.

 

Also John Jackson's "Roach", (pictured), being a Josher has very much shallower sides than say a "Grand Union" "Town class" boat, so unless you factor that into any estimate, the amount of dry side showing above the water will not actually tell you how much additional boat is lurking below the water. I wouldn't care to estimate the load on "Roach" in that picture, but it is not uncommon to see a Josher more deeply loaded than that, to the extent that the painted parts at the front end are actually partly in the water.

 

A bit like FMC Clover in this image - IWA Festival - Watford 2013

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by Leo No2

[alan_fincher]

 

A bit like FMC Clover in this image - IWA Festival - Watford 2013

 

 

Yes, a few more tons on there than on Roach I would say - they load about a ton an inch, so make your own estimate.

 

Incidentally, apart from Michael Pinnock, there is also the chance to play "spot the forum member" in your picture!

Edited November 2, 2014 by alan_fincher

[James Owen]

I have boated both loaded and empty boats over the past 40+ years and I have never been aware of a loaded boat attracting more interest than an empty boat, not from the public's perspective anyway. My own preference, especially now that I am getting a bit older is for an empty boat. I have always liked the high fore end of a 'large' Grand Union Canal Carrying Company Ltd. motor, especially on the southern Oxford Canal or Staffs and Worcs Canal where the view of the high cratch sweeping around the tight bends gives me great pleasure - although these high fore ends do tend to worry boats coming the other way around a tight bend, especially when they see that you have a butty as well

In fairness I hadn't given a thought to how much 'interest' a loaded/unloaded boat would generate in the eyes of spectators or the general public, more from the steerers perspective.

Accepting that the formers part is arguably as important to the future of these boats as those who currently 'work' them.

[Richard T]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned Crane - seen here at Dimmingsdale at the end of August. She was working up the lock with Callisto.

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by Richard T

[alan_fincher]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned Crane - seen here at Dimmingsdale at the end of August. She was working upm the lock with Callisto.

Ah "Crane" - a Josher that can turn my head in a way that somehow the really "blinged" ones never quite manage.

 

It's owner Geoff, is a very occasional poster on the forum, and really has got himself a cracking boat.

 

I had not realised he had loaded it, so thanks for sharing!

[junior]

Last time i saw that boat in the flesh it was being steered by a lion.

[cheshire~rose]

Well I walked past LING several times at Braunston and it was 'loaded' with several of those large builders merchant sacks things full of sand. I can't imagine they would do that just to make it look loaded so I presume they were going to be delivered to a building site.

 

Yes Ling is loaded with sand which is destined for the restoration of The Chesterfield Canal.

 

It was hoped that she could travel up onto The Chesterfield for it to be unloaded at the end of the summer "season" but there were a couple of minor delays and the schedule got a bit tight for her to get up here and safely back "home" again in view of the stoppage at West Stockwith Lock that is due to start tomorrow.

 

Hopefully once the stoppage is over and the chances of any excessive high water on The Trent has subsided in the spring then David, Lings owner will be able to deliver the sand. It is hoped that we may be able to unload it at Albert Dock on The Chessie - the significance of this would be that historically that is where the stone for The Houses of Parliament was loaded onto boats to be carried to The Trent. It would be nice use a historic boat to deliver building materials to the same place

[pete harrison]

Ah "Crane" - a Josher that can turn my head in a way that somehow the really "blinged" ones never quite manage.

 

It's owner Geoff, is a very occasional poster on the forum, and really has got himself a cracking boat.

 

I had not realised he had loaded it, so thanks for sharing!

CRANE illustrates my point about all unconverted boats being capable of carrying in the retail coal business as I do not think it is in full time carrying service, more as recreational service (but I am happy to be corrected). This is the case with many boats currently in use as occasional carriers or warehousing for established retailers.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Yes Ling is loaded with sand which is destined for the restoration of The Chesterfield Canal.

 

It was hoped that she could travel up onto The Chesterfield for it to be unloaded at the end of the summer "season" but there were a couple of minor delays and the schedule got a bit tight for her to get up here and safely back "home" again in view of the stoppage at West Stockwith Lock that is due to start tomorrow.

 

Hopefully once the stoppage is over and the chances of any excessive high water on The Trent has subsided in the spring then David, Lings owner will be able to deliver the sand. It is hoped that we may be able to unload it at Albert Dock on The Chessie - the significance of this would be that historically that is where the stone for The Houses of Parliament was loaded onto boats to be carried to The Trent. It would be nice use a historic boat to deliver building materials to the same place

I hope they didn't order it on a "Just in time basis" :-)

[cheshire~rose]

I hope they didn't order it on a "Just in time basis" :-)

 

 

It was not ordered, David offered to donate the sand himself. There are still 8½ miles to restore up here so the WRGies would have to be extremely busy for their Bonfire Bash Reunion next weekend if the sand were likely to critical. Instead they will just clear 3 miles of scrub and do some lock building. Sigh. It makes me feel tired just thinking about how hard those guys work!

[twbm]

Although there is only a finite number of ex-working boats still on the canals I feel this question is impossible to answer. Boats change hands year on year, and the way that owners choose to operate their boats changes with their personal circumstances. In theory every unconverted boat is available for loading, although clearly some will need renovations before that would be really viable. Some owners that are involved in the coal trade are very affluent and their boats are restored at high cost and then loaded for fun rather than commercial gain - so should these be counted ? At least one pair involved in the retail coal trade is owned and operated by a non profit making charity so in theory is taking trade away from those who are employed full time - so should they be counted ?

 

The question in the OP was about boats that are carrying, not trading commercially. The status of the owners is irrelevant.

[pete harrison]

 

The question in the OP was about boats that are carrying, not trading commercially. The status of the owners is irrelevant.

The question in the OP was specific to boats involved in the coal / fuel trade - not just boats that are carrying. As with most threads within this Forum it has expanded somewhat and has also included coal that is not for sale as well as sand. The rest of the conversation is just that, conversation - but yes, the status of ownership is irrelevant as I was looking from a business point of view

Edited November 2, 2014 by pete harrison

[pete harrison]

Nuneaton and Brighton do have a regular run (though Stoke Bruerne on Thursday/Friday last week) so I think they should be included.

I was wondering whether The Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. were still up and running with NUNEATON and BRIGHTON. I look at their website almost every day and their "News" section has not been updated for ages, and the last update a couple of months ago was to delete the only entry that was there

[alan_fincher]

I was wondering whether The Narrow Boat Trust Ltd. were still up and running with NUNEATON and BRIGHTON. I look at their website almost every day and their "News" section has not been updated for ages, and the last update a couple of months ago was to delete the only entry that was there

The NBT trust boats, I know, passed North up the GU through my area not many days ago.

 

I didn't manage to get to see them, but from pictures I recall from one of the crew, I don't think they were loaded, (or at least not by very much).