Using Bowthrusters

[nine9feet]

If it's an electric BT then I think he used it correctly. The greatest power draw is on start-up so it's better to use the BT with the least number of starts. Hydraulic, I don't think it matters either way.

 

Ken

Thanks Ken. That helps explain a little.

 

I still don't get why he did not use tiller and engine as well though, so that the thruster was "assisting" the manoeuvre (Oxford Dictionary def: "A movement or series of moves requiring skill and care") :-)

[Naughty Cal]

We used to have a neighbour in the boatyard who said he had a bow thruster, she was called Pauline...

 

Yep. Im Naughty-Cal's manual bow thruster.

[wiltshirewonderer]

I confess to owning a WB with thrusters on the pointy end. Only used them twice, both to get out of poor maneuvering when reversing into the berth. On each occasion I forgot which button was for which direction. Both times I got it wrong and made a slightly dodgy looking reverse worse.

[Guest]

I confess to owning a WB with thrusters on the pointy end. Only used them twice, both to get out of poor maneuvering when reversing into the berth. On each occasion I forgot which button was for which direction. Both times I got it wrong and made a slightly dodgy looking reverse worse.

 

 

Confession is good for the soul! Have a greenie!

Edited August 22, 2014 by The Dog House

[mark99]

Is it not a right of passage? before you get used to your boat to get blown over to the shallow muddy reedy bit in front of the whole marina and die inside through feeling inadequate?

 

Just think what you bowthruster types are missing.

 

 

ETA my linear mooring is on a narrow offshoot on a tight 90 bend, the only way out is to use a pole (unless I had a bowthruster).

Edited August 22, 2014 by mark99

[Chagall]

I have bow thrusters...s'bloody marvellous!

 

when they bust irretrievably I'll learn how to manage without, meantime if I can afford to fix it I will and if somebody objects to the noise then Im sorry....I'll be out of your way soon enough.

 

However, I know from experience that they should only be used in short bursts and not as a way of shifting silt!...ask me how I know that? the blithering 'help' (who was an alleged expert) used them to excess because he thought they "were great fun" it would have cost me £400 to repair via Vetus had another good friend not fixed them for me. (Thanks Mark x)

 

actually bowthrusters wont get you out of the mud, Ive proved that early on in my days of learning boat handling and still went through that right of passage of needing poles in a short winding hole...they didn't work either and I had to be ignominiously dragged off by a boat half the length of mine.

 

girly button? maybe...but I bet you have power steering on your cars.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Chagall

[saltysplash]

Ive got a bow thruster, I really must get round to fitting a battery to give it a try

[patty-ann]

I had bow thruster fitted, used sensibly its useful aid.

Used irresponsibly is an expensive luxury I will do without.

Its there as confidence boost so that if I need girly tool, will use.

Short blasts, do not push button excessively, all in moderation.

Well done those who drive well without...I have power steering on car...if theres an easier way then thats Ok.

Has to be personal choice.

[johnmck]

They are a great tool for gentle maneuvering. Fantastic when reversing. But, they do not like yards of lanyard attached to a rubber pipe fender! You know how I know this.....

[WhiteSuit]

I used to do valet mooring for ownerships at Stockton. If you used the pussy buttons you had to buy the donuts!

Having had years on a boat without them I now have the luxury of a navigational aid as one p???taker at the marina calls them. I use them as infrequently as I can but am big enough to admit I am not the best helmsman in the world and would rather punish people's ears than hit something! They are seriously a great help in reversing and manoeuvring stern first onto my berth, particularly on a windy day

 

Having devoured the instruction book for our boat you are not supposed to use electric ones continuously but in short bursts. No different to a starter motor on a stubborn starting engine.

 

I did witness an ex ownership boat being helmed by someone our crew believed was dead on th T&M at Shardlow. He was hunched over the tiller in a stationary pose with all the steering done on the BT's. He completed a turn by the pub totally on BT's in order to go back up the locks. I had to wonder if he was a dummy and someone inside the boat was working him on a remote.

And no we shared the lock with another boat.

[Dharl]

The boat I have just been on not only had bow thrusters but also twin rotating propulsion pods at the stern.The Viking Idun

 

Yep North Sea Supply, AHTS and construction ships which are "DP" have thrusters all over the place. Wouldn't call them a girly / wail button!! However they don't fit very well in a Narrow Lock

[Ron T]

We've got a hydraulic bowthruster, I try not to rely on it too much but it's great for keeping the bow over against the wall in the round locks and gives me more time to leave the wheelhouse to throw the bow rope up.More often than not I don't use it in the locks but sometimes I just get lazy so why not?Also I have problems reversing and will use it for that purpose.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Yep North Sea Supply, AHTS and construction ships which are "DP" have thrusters all over the place. Wouldn't call them a girly / wail button!! However they don't fit very well in a Narrow Lock

I worked on a rig called the Rowen California and she had a notice on the control center or bridge saying "This vessel requires a pilot to pass under Potter Heigham bridge"

[MtB]

There is a line to be drawn somewhere.

 

I think a BT ceases to be whimpy when the vessel is big enough to cause some proper damage to other vessels, landing stages etc at low speed or when stationary and being blown by the wind, for example the situation John V described earlier in post 19.

 

So I don't see anything wrong with BTs on large vessels, they are a valid method of controlling the ship.

 

But on a NB they seem a bit wet, although brilliant for reversing long distances. On a cruiser with twin engines they seem seriously wussy.

 

 

I haven't thought it through that thoroughly yet...

 

 

MtB

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[b0atman]

I have power steering on my Narrowboat its called arm muscles.

[by'eck]

Apologies for hijacking thread but I'm looking for a (at least) 500 amp (ideally) latching 12 volt DC solenoid to act as remotely controlled bowthruster battery isolator.

 

This is to replace the motorised BEP one I have been using which is only rated at 275 amps continuous (1250 amps cranking) and finally burnt out the other day after two years of use. Note the BT itself is fused at 600 amps. Although BEP do a much higher rated isolator its not available in motorised version.

[mark99]

There is a line to be drawn somewhere.

 

I think a BT ceases to be whimpy when the vessel is big enough to cause some proper damage to other vessels, landing stages etc at low speed or when stationary and being blown by the wind, for example the situation John V described earlier in post 19.

 

So I don't see anything wrong with BTs on large vessels, they are a valid method of controlling the ship.

 

But on a NB they seem a bit wet, although brilliant for reversing long distances. On a cruiser with twin engines they seem seriously wussy.

 

 

I haven't thought it through that thoroughly yet...

 

 

MtB

 

They can make people lazy. Two botes travelling together coming downstream split and moored up next to me at Tesco Ricky last week, one behind, one in front - both at the same time. One chap pulled in using tiller and tied up quickly. The other used his bowthruster 6 times and still ended up with the rear end swaying about and resorted to ropes. It just needed the Billy Smarts circus music to finish it off.

Edited August 29, 2014 by mark99

[Naughty Cal]

There is a line to be drawn somewhere.

 

I think a BT ceases to be whimpy when the vessel is big enough to cause some proper damage to other vessels, landing stages etc at low speed or when stationary and being blown by the wind, for example the situation John V described earlier in post 19.

 

So I don't see anything wrong with BTs on large vessels, they are a valid method of controlling the ship.

 

But on a NB they seem a bit wet, although brilliant for reversing long distances. On a cruiser with twin engines they seem seriously wussy.

 

 

I haven't thought it through that thoroughly yet...

 

 

MtB

One of the boats we were travelling with at the weekend was twin engined with a girly button, now he hasnt had the boat long but he was hopeless with it. We were pulling him in with thrown ropes

 

Trouble is he wont learn how to handle his boat as he is relying on the wail switch. Not sure what he will do when it breaks.

[John Williamson 1955]

<Tongue firmly in cheek> How about a new rule. Before you are allowed to be in charge of a boat with a girly button, you have to prove you can turn it on the spot without using it?

[MtB]

One of the boats we were travelling with at the weekend was twin engined with a girly button, now he hasnt had the boat long but he was hopeless with it. We were pulling him in with thrown ropes

 

Trouble is he wont learn how to handle his boat as he is relying on the wail switch. Not sure what he will do when it breaks.

 

Wail switch. Seems an even better name than girly button...

 

Actually, I propose whale switch. Rhyming slang!

 

 

 

MtB

[Higgs]

 

Wail switch. Seems an even better name than girly button...

 

Actually, I propose whale switch. Rhyming slang!

 

 

 

MtB

 

Why not call it the 'Blond Syndrome Button'. Isn't that what 'Girlie Button' implies. I have a bow thruster and am not overly sensitive about what the Joystick is called. I do realise that to some, it seems about as useless as using the indicator in a car.

 

Bowthruster, bowthruster; if you've got it, flaunt it. You don't have to go forward back, forward back, forward back. Go, Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......., Eee.

[blackrose]

If it's an electric BT then I think he used it correctly. The greatest power draw is on start-up so it's better to use the BT with the least number of starts. Hydraulic, I don't think it matters either way.

 

Ken

 

I disagree. If it was an electric BT, then it should only be used in short bursts, not continuously. Continuous and frequent and use of an electric BT (more than about 10 seconds at a time) risks knackering the batteries, and continuous use of more than about 30 seconds may even risk burning out the motor.

 

Hydraulic systems can be used continuously, although why anyone would want to do that I've no idea. I've never needed to use my BT for more than a few seconds at a time. I'm single-handed on a 57 x 12ft boat so I do find it useful. The downside of some hydraulic BTs is that they aren't independent from the engine because the engine powers the hydraulic pump. This means that on some hydraulic setups you have to slip the engine into neutral and then rev it up to get any useable power from the BT, which may defeat the object as you then lose steering.

<Tongue firmly in cheek> How about a new rule. Before you are allowed to be in charge of a boat with a girly button, you have to prove you can turn it on the spot without using it?

 

Done.

 

[Robbo]

I disagree. If it was an electric BT, then it should only be used in short bursts, not continuously. Continuous and frequent and use of an electric BT (more than about 10 seconds at a time) risks knackering the batteries, and continuous use of more than about 30 seconds may even risk burning out the motor.

My BT quotes no longer than 4 minutes continuously.

 

Edit, just checked manual on-line it's 4 minutes not 2. Vetus model.

 

 

Another edit, extract from manual below..

 

 

 

The maximum continuous length of usage, which is also the maximum length per hour, is:

Bowthruster

'23kg!'-12V: 8min.at150A

'50kg!'-12V: 5min.at250A

'50kg!'-24V: 5min.at125A

'80kg!'-12V : 3min.at580A '

80kg!'-24V: 4min.at280A

'130 kg!' - 24 V : 6 min. at 480 A ') 4.5 min. at 560 A ')

')with battery capacity ea. 100 Ah, thrust 1300 N(130 kg!)

')with battery capacity ea. 300 Ah, thrust 1600 N(160 kg!)

 

IMPORTANT!

The maximum length of usage and the thrust as specified in the technical details are based on the recommended battery capacities and battery cables; see the 'installation instructions'. If signifi­ cantly larger batteries in combination with very short battery cables of significantly larger diameter than recommended are used then the thrust will in­ crease. In such cases the maximum length of usage must be reduced in order to prevent damage to the motor.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Robbo

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Have to say that I come to this thread without any real vested interest either way, my boat doesn't have a bow-thruster and I have no real urge to get one, but I don't understand the reluctance of those who have them fitted, using them. The 'macho' reference to them as 'girly buttons' (what aren't girls capable of steering competently without them? I don't think so) doesn't really help. If there is a device fitted to make the steering of an 18 ton canal boat easier then why not use it. On the Kennet and Avon I passed one guy who both powered and steered his boat with a long pole, isn't that what 'real men' should be doing instead of using these 'girly' engines??

 

I would think that reversing a boat with a bow-thruster must be an absolute dream compared with reversing without one since all narrow boats over about 30 feet are real pigs in reverse. I often joke with those I meet with bow-thrusters that I have the cake and ale powered version but I can't really say that I view them any less for having and using them, if I had one I'd use it.

 

Given that in the modern age they fit power steering to piddly little cars like for Ford Fiesta's I don't think that 'power steering' to an 18 ton narrow-boat is particularly inappropriate

 

My only real issue with bow-thrusters is one I've raised once before on another thread, it is just somewhere else to make sure that you paint when blacking the boat. In one of the boating magazines there was a sorry tale of someone's boat starting to seriously take in water at the bows. Upon investigation it turned out that when the boat had been blacked no-one had painted the BT tunnel consequently it had rusted through and started to leak. That is my only concern with such things, I don't like putting unnecessary holes in my boat.

[Murflynn]

Apologies for hijacking thread but I'm looking for a (at least) 500 amp (ideally) latching 12 volt DC solenoid to act as remotely controlled bowthruster battery isolator.

 

This is to replace the motorised BEP one I have been using which is only rated at 275 amps continuous (1250 amps cranking) and finally burnt out the other day after two years of use. Note the BT itself is fused at 600 amps. Although BEP do a much higher rated isolator its not available in motorised version.

http://www.albrightinternational.com/lang/en/index.html

 

these are used by Vetus, for example.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Murflynn