Leaving lock gates open (again)

[MtB]

 

We have completed the same 21 in 1 hr 22 mins. It was a bad road all the way - and every gate was shut behind. Admittedly, mob-handed and seeking to prove a point - but I reckon it may be possible to shave a few minutes as some members of the crew were young children.

 

Anyway, this is under 4 mins per lock gross - and rather less if you deduct something for the 1.7 miles or so travelled.

 

This shows the huge time difference between single handing and having crew on the bank. My single-handed ascent was four hours, really going at it (i.e. running not walking, and using my bike for the longer walks back and forth) and it was not even a bad road all the way.

 

MtB

[nicknorman]

We have completed the same 21 in 1 hr 22 mins. It was a bad road all the way - and every gate was shut behind. Admittedly, mob-handed ...

On your subject of "Are you up for a bragging competition on lockage times or numbers?" I would say that anyone can go fast when mob-handed - if you have someone on each gate, paddle, ditto in next lock etc, how could you not go fast? The skill is in going fast when there is just one or two of you.

[furnessvale]

 

We have completed the same 21 in 1 hr 22 mins. It was a bad road all the way - and every gate was shut behind. Admittedly, mob-handed and seeking to prove a point - but I reckon it may be possible to shave a few minutes as some members of the crew were young children.

 

Anyway, this is under 4 mins per lock gross - and rather less if you deduct something for the 1.7 miles or so travelled.

Provided you have enough crew to preset and close up behind, and crucially there are no other boats about in either direction, some very good times are possible.

 

1hr 5mins up Bosley and 1hr 35mins down Marple spring to mind. Achieved perfectly safely with no abuse of lock gear.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[stickleback]

On your subject of "Are you up for a bragging competition on lockage times or numbers?" I would say that anyone can go fast when mob-handed - if you have someone on each gate, paddle, ditto in next lock etc, how could you not go fast? The skill is in going fast when there is just one or two of you.

I like to dawdle along, enjoy the scenery / gentle exercise, and not aggravate my asthma! We went through the Hatton flight last summer with another boat whose crew seemed to treat it all like an olympic sport and it was shattering - no enjoyment at all!! but very very quick...

[furnessvale]

Most BCN locks are reasonably quick - much quicker than eg Coventry Canal locks.

Indeed. Fast times on that canal are only achievable downhill.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[alan_fincher]

4mins a lock? they must be very quick filling!

Tam is talking about a time when most GU locks retained a set of full sized gate paddles. Proper ones with big paddles - not like the smaller ones that have eventually replaced them, and which are strangled by grids over them to get blocked by peoples discarded coal sacks.

 

I doubt Tam could easily match his old times now, even if not impeded by other boaters doing "lockside macramé".

 

4 minutes a lock presumably still possible on the GU main line to Birmingham, due to the massive paddles from the widening of the 1930s.

 

Edit

 

Sorry I now see the 4 minute comment quoted refers to Wolverhampton locks, not to Tam's comments about GU.

 

Wolverhampton locks fill quick, assuming every paddle working.

 

As has been said transit of that flight includes about 1.7 miles of actual boating to. With working boat draught and low pounds we were not as fast as the leisure boat could managed. Also in narrow locks having an old fashioned 7 foot beam, rather than the current "norm" of a couple of inchesvshaved off the width, means your get away at each lock is noticeably slower, (yes honestly!).

Edited March 20, 2014 by alan_fincher

[nicknorman]

I like to dawdle along, enjoy the scenery / gentle exercise, and not aggravate my asthma! We went through the Hatton flight last summer with another boat whose crew seemed to treat it all like an olympic sport and it was shattering - no enjoyment at all!! but very very quick...

People find enjoyment in different things. For us, we like to be efficient because if there are 2 ways of doing something, why choose the more laborious and slower way?

 

But some people get enjoyment from just going slow for the sake of it. If I were cynical I would say that perhaps they have "something to prove" a bit like those folk who say "you can't hurry on the canals" whilst holding others up who are working to a schedule.

 

There should be a choice, with that choice not unduly affecting others who make a different choice.

[furnessvale]

People find enjoyment in different things. For us, we like to be efficient because if there are 2 ways of doing something, why choose the more laborious and slower way?

 

But some people get enjoyment from just going slow for the sake of it. If I were cynical I would say that perhaps they have "something to prove" a bit like those folk who say "you can't hurry on the canals" whilst holding others up who are working to a schedule.

 

There should be a choice, with that choice not unduly affecting others who make a different choice.

Agreed. When I am cruising along a lockfree section of canal obeying speed limits and not creating a breaking wash, and I catch up to another boat dawdling along, I hope (I dare not say expect) to be let by.

 

Equally, when cruising the Ashby for example, and my draught slows me, if a boat catches up I will let him by at the first opportunity.

 

It seems to be common courtesy to me, but I do meet occasional boats who seem to revel in their ability to hold me up.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Dharl]

we are tackling Caen Hill this weekend....crew of 4 including my parents so I doubt we will make the 4 min a lock record....planning on taking it a little slower

[nicknorman]

Agreed. When I am cruising along a lockfree section of canal obeying speed limits and not creating a breaking wash, and I catch up to another boat dawdling along, I hope (I dare not say expect) to be let by.

 

Equally, when cruising the Ashby for example, and my draught slows me, if a boat catches up I will let him by at the first opportunity.

 

It seems to be common courtesy to me, but I do meet occasional boats who seem to revel in their ability to hold me up.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Ditto. Though as you say, it's amazing how many folk (with noisy engines, usually!) never look behind.

[Mike Todd]

Tam is talking about a time when most GU locks retained a set of full sized gate paddles. Proper ones with big paddles - not like the smaller ones that have eventually replaced them, and which are strangled by grids over them to get blocked by peoples discarded coal sacks.

 

I doubt Tam could easily match his old times now, even if not impeded by other boaters doing "lockside macramé".

 

4 minutes a lock presumably still possible on the GU main line to Birmingham, due to the massive paddles from the widening of the 1930s.

 

Edit

 

Sorry I now see the 4 minute comment quoted refers to Wolverhampton locks, not to Tam's comments about GU.

 

Wolverhampton locks fill quick, assuming every paddle working.

 

As has been said transit of that flight includes about 1.7 miles of actual boating to. With working boat draught and low pounds we were not as fast as the leisure boat could managed. Also in narrow locks having an old fashioned 7 foot beam, rather than the current "norm" of a couple of inchesvshaved off the width, means your get away at each lock is noticeably slower, (yes honestly!).

Just to be clear: my times (which are used in my canal software) are for the additional time that the lock adds, over and above the time to cover the ground which is calculated separately.

 

Hence the time for a flight = time to cover distance + time to do a lock * no of locks

we are tackling Caen Hill this weekend....crew of 4 including my parents so I doubt we will make the 4 min a lock record....planning on taking it a little slower

I cannot believe the 4 mins per lock - it may well be that a lock will fill/empty in 4 mins but you also have the travel time as well.

 

Also, in my experience, it is a myth that sharing a lock takes less time - it usually takes us longer, especially if one boat declines to breast up (although that has its hazards as Caen Hill well know!)

[Tacet]

Wolverhampton locks fill quick, assuming every paddle working.

 

As has been said transit of that flight includes about 1.7 miles of actual boating to. With working boat draught and low pounds we were not as fast as the leisure boat could managed. Also in narrow locks having an old fashioned 7 foot beam, rather than the current "norm" of a couple of inchesvshaved off the width, means your get away at each lock is noticeably slower, (yes honestly!).

 

True, I'm sure, but a shorter boat, such as Sickle, is an advantage too. A full length boat will need to slow down to almost a stop before the astern gates can be closed, but in a shorter craft, some of the braking distance can be found after the gates are shut.

 

Every little bit helps,

[Tim Lewis]

 

True, I'm sure, but a shorter boat, such as Sickle, is an advantage too. A full length boat will need to slow down to almost a stop before the astern gates can be closed, but in a shorter craft, some of the braking distance can be found after the gates are shut.

 

Every little bit helps,

 

Indeed it does, many years ago we did Hatton downhill mob handed in 1hr 20 minutes, We had a 50ft boat which by the time it had stopped in the lock gates were shut and the paddles open meaning that it was moving either verticall or horizontally at all times bar maybe a few seconds whilst the bottom gate opened

 

Tim

Edited March 20, 2014 by Tim Lewis

[FadeToScarlet]

True, I'm sure, but a shorter boat, such as Sickle, is an advantage too. A full length boat will need to slow down to almost a stop before the astern gates can be closed, but in a shorter craft, some of the braking distance can be found after the gates are shut.

 

Every little bit helps,

 

Which is where strapping in saves time and effort. Two maneuvers accomplished simultaneously by one person, letting the other draw the bottom paddles straight away.

[Dharl]

I cannot believe the 4 mins per lock - it may well be that a lock will fill/empty in 4 mins but you also have the travel time as well.

 

Also, in my experience, it is a myth that sharing a lock takes less time - it usually takes us longer, especially if one boat declines to breast up (although that has its hazards as Caen Hill well know!)

 

does a breasted pair get stuck at every lock or just certain ones on the flight.....?

[matty40s]

 

does a breasted pair get stuck at every lock or just certain ones on the flight.....?

There's at least one in the middle which you can only do one boat at once - going down anyway.

I managed Caen Hill in 3 hours going up , singlehanding with every lock against me - even including a cup of tea stop because two boats coming down were setting too far ahead and I couldn't be bothered turning the lock so waited.

[Mike Todd]

A full width boat presents much less space for the displaced water to pass the boat, hence a much greater drag. Same reason why, esp on a shallow canal, boat slows down when going through a narrow bridge. In places the effect is quite marked.

 

 

 

True, I'm sure, but a shorter boat, such as Sickle, is an advantage too. A full length boat will need to slow down to almost a stop before the astern gates can be closed, but in a shorter craft, some of the braking distance can be found after the gates are shut.

 

Every little bit helps,

My implied reference was to a couple of years or so ago when one of the locks was closed when a pair of hire boats forgot that they were breasted up, went full power ahead with only one gate open.

 

 

does a breasted pair get stuck at every lock or just certain ones on the flight.....?

[alan_fincher]

True, I'm sure, but a shorter boat, such as Sickle, is an advantage too. A full length boat will need to slow down to almost a stop before the astern gates can be closed, but in a shorter craft, some of the braking distance can be found after the gates are shut.

 

Every little bit helps,

Sickle also has the advantage of providing a direct walk way from one side of the lock to the other with a full or near full lock, allowing people to swap sides very quickly if it is required!

[Tuscan]

Larger boats do have a couple of advantage either providing wash to help close the gate or being able to reach using mop head to hold gates open, most tried to blow open up the Watford flight today. I think the answer must be to get one of each.

[MyLady]

Tangential to this debate, on a lock on the Huddersfield narrow that I passed through yesterday, CaRT instructions fastened to the beam arm said to "Leave one tail paddle open." Since this was on the lower gates I decided that the 'tail' was that end, but for future reference, which really is the head and which the tail of a lock?

Edited March 20, 2014 by MyLady

[Dharl]

I would look at it as the " down hill " set of gates being the tail and the " up hill" set of gates being the head. I stand to be corrected as I haven't seen it officially written down as such.....

[Guest]

Tangential to this debate, on a lock on the Huddersfield narrow that I passed through yesterday, CaRT instructions fastened to the beam arm said to "Leave one tail paddle open." Since this was on the lower gates I decided that the 'tail' was that end, but for future reference, which really is the head and which the tail of a lock?

My understanding too is that you were correct to leave a paddle on the bottom gates open.

Edited March 21, 2014 by The Dog House

[Leo No2]

I have noticed over the last couple of days that the upper gates on the top lock at Stoke Bruerne have been left open (by single handlers) on a number of occasions and in one case it was both gates with all the paddles up. The lower gates leak a bit (well more than a bit) and with no by-washes on the flight there's a danger of flooding in the shorter pounds. There is no instruction to close the gates on leaving (not to self to ring CRT) but I would have thought common sense would have dictated that you would/should always close the upper gates of the top lock of a flight on leaving but it may be that I am just old fashioned in my views. I think it is especially important at this time of year when the volume of movements is not that great.

[nicknorman]

I have noticed over the last couple of days that the upper gates on the top lock at Stoke Bruerne have been left open (by single handlers) on a number of occasions and in one case it was both gates with all the paddles up. The lower gates leak a bit (well more than a bit) and with no by-washes on the flight there's a danger of flooding in the shorter pounds. There is no instruction to close the gates on leaving (not to self to ring CRT) but I would have thought common sense would have dictated that you would/should always close the upper gates of the top lock of a flight on leaving but it may be that I am just old fashioned in my views. I think it is especially important at this time of year when the volume of movements is not that great.

How depressing. It seems that idle selfishness continues to proliferate.

[Arthur Marshall]

Odd, though, unless they swing. It's much easier as a singlehander to close the top gates than the bottom ones, you just have to stop the boat as you come out and step off.