Do the Police need a warrant to search a boat?

[Jerra]

"reasonable suspicion" is what is required for many things within police powers.

 

Whether the suspicion is reasonable or not can be tested by a court where an officer has to justify his actions.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Which basically means that all the innocent who are wrongly searched have no redress and the police don't have to prove a thing. Really makes you feel all supportive and helpful towards them.

[MHS]

I thought that these days it wasn't illegal to possess cannabis for personal consumption. If that's the case, thinking you can smell cannabis shouldn't be a reason for searching a boat.

 

I quite often get a whiff of it just passing people on the street. I thought that was because the law had been relaxed but perhaps it's just because there are no beat bobbies any more.

I understand that Cannabis is (currently) illegal to possess in any quantity, including for personal use. There is a system of warnings only for 1st time offenders with small quantities.

[Tim Lewis]

 

Do you know under what powers, please?

We were boarded on the tidal Thames under the Prevention Of Terrorism Act

 

 

Tim

Edited January 29, 2014 by Tim Lewis

[Simon clarke]

Which basically means that all the innocent who are wrongly searched have no redress and the police don't have to prove a thing. Really makes you feel all supportive and helpful towards them.

It's worse! If you are put in prison on remand and then found not guilty at trial you get no compensation or even the 45 pounds discharge grant given to convicted felons on discharge. That's life.

[Ex- Member]

Amphetamines, barbiturates, cannabis, codeine, methylphenidate (Ritalin), synthetic cannabinoids, synthetic cathinones (eg mephedrone, methoxetamine)

 

Up to 5 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both Up to 14 years in prison, an unlimited fine or both

 

Cannabis is a class B Drug and it is illegal to possess or deal in this drug in the U.K

 

ETA forgot link

 

https://www.gov.uk/penalties-drug-possession-dealing

Edited January 29, 2014 by Julynian

[MHS]

We were boarded on the tidal Thames under the Prevention Of Terrorism Act

 

Tim

If you arrive at a British port, the police (or HMRC) can routinely board. This is to check passports, for duty free, illegal immigrants, drugs etc.

Unlikely to have come via Sangatte camp, France on your narrowboat on the Thames.

[Jigsawged]

Sorry but I see this as a policeman doing his job. There was no mention of bullying or confrontation in the OP

Absolutely right. Isn't it so easy to just have a pop (and often from a position of ignorance, not being in possession of all the facts)

Have a Greenie.

[Nightwatch]

Yes, it does really.

[tjderby]

Just like a car or a person if there is probable cause they can search you and the boat under the misuse of drugs act.

I thought that these days it wasn't illegal to possess cannabis for personal consumption. If that's the case, thinking you can smell cannabis shouldn't be a reason for searching a boat.

 

I quite often get a whiff of it just passing people on the street. I thought that was because the law had been relaxed but perhaps it's just because there are no beat bobbies any more.

 

Nope possession of cannabis is an offense. It was relaxed a few years ago. But they retracted it back to being illegal.

[8 Hairy Feet]

All together now....

"Don't Bogart that joint my friend,

Pass it over to me...."

[Rod a mod from Tod]

All together now....

"Don't Bogart that joint my friend,

Pass it over to me...."

 

Go then. Give us a clue.

[furnessvale]

I doubt it was as the OP said it was "A passing officer" more than likely it was someone that grassed (excuse the pun) them up

Indeed, the police are not normally in the habit of saying "the people on boat named xxxxxx next to you have told us......"

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[furnessvale]

Which basically means that all the innocent who are wrongly searched have no redress and the police don't have to prove a thing. Really makes you feel all supportive and helpful towards them.

It is your right not to feel helpful and supportive to a copper if you wish. The copper still gets paid either way.

 

But, depending on the circumstances, that MAY just put the copper in the position where he feels the need to spend a bit more time eliminating you from his enquiries. Time doing that is time NOT spent looking for the real villain who may just slip the net.

 

A few days later, that copper has a need to visit a little old lady in her council flat on a rough estate. He says to her "I'm sorry, but that yob who punched you in the face and stole your pension last Tuesday near the Post Office got away. We don't know who it was". Terrified, the old lady is now scared to leave her flat and her life is effectively ended.

 

Don't worry, you are safe, having exercised your right not to to be helpful or supportive to a copper the previous Tuesday afternoon.

 

Been there, got the T shirt.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Rufford]

The way I have read the law is that they would have to issue a warrant on the person, this will give them the legal powers to search their property (property being the key word here, can mean house or chattel). However there is also another line of investigation open to the police which gives them rights to investigate a crime in progress - without a warrant.

 

However I would imagine in this case the Officer in question used the old tactic of 'Can I search your boat?' Or 'Im going to search your boat now, is that ok?' essentially asking voluntary permission to search a boat.

I don't actually know, assuming she wasn't under arrest.

If you are arrested, they can search any property you occupy or own without needing any other permission. I do wonder how this works if someone is in a shared house- can they search the whole place, including common areas and other people's rooms without permission?

I don't think it matters if her home is a house or a boat in terms of the rights, but I may be wrong,

 

Under PACE they have rights to search communal areas and the individual's room. They do not have the right to search in other peoples rooms.

[Rufford]

I understand that Cannabis is (currently) illegal to possess in any quantity, including for personal use. There is a system of warnings only for 1st time offenders with small quantities.

 

Any quantity is illegal. There are a graduated system of warnings, Street Caution/Caution/Final Caution. How one can acquire two final cautions is still a mystery to me.

[furnessvale]

The way I have read the law is that they would have to issue a warrant on the person, this will give them the legal powers to search their property (property being the key word here, can mean house or chattel). However there is also another line of investigation open to the police which gives them rights to investigate a crime in progress - without a warrant.

 

However I would imagine in this case the Officer in question used the old tactic of 'Can I search your boat?' Or 'Im going to search your boat now, is that ok?' essentially asking voluntary permission to search a boat.

 

Under PACE they have rights to search communal areas and the individual's room. They do not have the right to search in other peoples rooms.

Possession of cannabis is an indictable offence. A police officer may enter premises to arrest anyone committing an indictable offence.

 

If someone is on the premises and the officer can smell cannabis he can reasonably suspect that someone on the premises possesses a class B drug therefore he can enter to arrest them.

 

Having entered, he does not have to arrest if he can satisfactorily resolve the matter by report or informal caution etc.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

PS Section 23 of PACE 1984 specifically includes a vessel as premises. For what it is worth even a tent is "premises".

 

G

Edited January 30, 2014 by furnessvale

[madcat]

Alan I know what you mean by dope in relation to model aircraft, my ex used to build model aircraft but gave up when he could afford to fly full sized ones. A case of get rid off wife and spend the cash on flying.

 

Having been off topic back to the discussion, the person who had their "grass" investigated was a complete anorak and didn't even smoke tobacco. Waste of time them bothering.

 

I seem to get the feeling that the lady who's boat was searched may have been quite concerned about it. The police can be very aggressive and unpleasant in their manner.

 

Some friends of mine have had their boats searched , woken in the middle of the night and treated like criminals. Not a pleasant thing to happen at all and likely a case of mistaken identity.

 

For a lot of people this is the only side of the police that they encounter and it doesn't make them feel co operative . Bad impressions stick.

 

On the whole you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar and I think there's still a way to go yet to get the balance right.

 

Don't get me started on the miners strike or some of the events before and after.

 

None of us are angels we are just human and that includes the police.

 

Edit to add, there are plants that apparently smell similar to cannabis and have caused confusion in the past.

Hops are a relative of cannabis I think.

Edited January 30, 2014 by madcat

[Leo No2]

This from a Home Office Document.

 

Stops and searches – Statutory powers exist under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE), for a police officer to search a person or vehicle without first making an arrest. Other police powers not under PACE include stops and searches in anticipation of violence (under section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994) and searches of pedestrians, vehicles and occupants (under sections 44(1) and 44(2) of the Terrorism Act 2000). Searches for drugs are still permitted by the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 and those for firearms under the Firearms Act 1968.

 

I am sure for their purposes a boat is a vehicle.

 

The advice given to me was that it is always easier to accede to their request and to welcome them on board. I reckon they probably have a quota to fulfil based on the number of leisure boats using the tidal Thames. I have never seen a Police boat upstream of Chelsea Bridge except during the Diamond Jubilee event and when they have been looking for a person so I expect it is protection of the city in this case - the River Police are located just downstream of Tower Bridge on the northern bank of the river. Of course none of this answers the OP!

[MHS]

 

Caution/Caution/Final Caution.

Pugh, Pugh, Barney, McGrew.

 

Oh that takes me back.

 

It does sound a bit daft for an illegal act to result in so many warnings. Try doing 120mph down the M1, or maybe 4.5mph down the Grand Union!! Not sure if our boat can actually manage 4.5mph.

[8 Hairy Feet]

 

Go then. Give us a clue.

Easy Rider!

[carlt]

 

Go then. Give us a clue.

[Jerra]

It is your right not to feel helpful and supportive to a copper if you wish. The copper still gets paid either way.

 

But, depending on the circumstances, that MAY just put the copper in the position where he feels the need to spend a bit more time eliminating you from his enquiries. Time doing that is time NOT spent looking for the real villain who may just slip the net.

 

A few days later, that copper has a need to visit a little old lady in her council flat on a rough estate. He says to her "I'm sorry, but that yob who punched you in the face and stole your pension last Tuesday near the Post Office got away. We don't know who it was". Terrified, the old lady is now scared to leave her flat and her life is effectively ended.

 

Don't worry, you are safe, having exercised your right not to to be helpful or supportive to a copper the previous Tuesday afternoon.

 

Been there, got the T shirt.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Having had a lot of time wasting run ins with the police as I young man I do not like the thought of them being given free rein over such things as searching unless they are 95%+ sure there is a crime.

 

For the record I am not black and at the time was a clean cut respectable teacher known in the small community who had friends who were policemen.

 

Examples of the time wasting. Stopped for driving round a round about too many times in the same evening. Stopped because "your indicators aren't working Sir". They were and even if they hadn't been he wouldn't have known as I was crossways on in the road turning when he came into view and the indicators had cancelled.

 

Etc. Etc.

 

I fully understand the alienation of the young coloured community.

[Rufford]

Possession of cannabis is an indictable offence. A police officer may enter premises to arrest anyone committing an indictable offence.

 

If someone is on the premises and the officer can smell cannabis he can reasonably suspect that someone on the premises possesses a class B drug therefore he can enter to arrest them.

 

Having entered, he does not have to arrest if he can satisfactorily resolve the matter by report or informal caution etc.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

True, I quite agree.

 

However there is nothing stopping a boat owner saying that they do not consent to such a search, run inside, bolt the doors, shout to them that they will have to show you a warrant to enter and then stoke the fire up. At that point they are neither under arrest nor subjected to a warrant. And if you are not under arrest then there is no obligation to speak to the police to tell them anything.

[furnessvale]

Having had a lot of time wasting run ins with the police as I young man I do not like the thought of them being given free rein over such things as searching unless they are 95%+ sure there is a crime.

 

For the record I am not black and at the time was a clean cut respectable teacher known in the small community who had friends who were policemen.

 

Examples of the time wasting. Stopped for driving round a round about too many times in the same evening. Stopped because "your indicators aren't working Sir". They were and even if they hadn't been he wouldn't have known as I was crossways on in the road turning when he came into view and the indicators had cancelled.

 

Etc. Etc.

 

I fully understand the alienation of the young coloured community.

????????????????????????????????

 

Talk about stereotyping who the "yob" in my example might have been.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Rufford]

Pugh, Pugh, Barney, McGrew.

 

Oh that takes me back.

 

It does sound a bit daft for an illegal act to result in so many warnings. Try doing 120mph down the M1, or maybe 4.5mph down the Grand Union!! Not sure if our boat can actually manage 4.5mph.

 

Aye, of course the cautions are reset to 0 every 12 months. So in theory it is possible to accrue 3 cautions a year. Unlikely as some jumped up desk sgt would no doubt prosecute if someone becomes a 'regular' (I know its their job, and I realise its a hard job to do, but all in all the vast majority of coppers CANNOT be arsed with cannabis, indeed many would like to see it legalised, however there's always that one who takes a gleeful joy out of doing EVERYTHNIG by the book.)

Having had a lot of time wasting run ins with the police as I young man I do not like the thought of them being given free rein over such things as searching unless they are 95%+ sure there is a crime.

 

For the record I am not black and at the time was a clean cut respectable teacher known in the small community who had friends who were policemen.

 

Examples of the time wasting. Stopped for driving round a round about too many times in the same evening. Stopped because "your indicators aren't working Sir". They were and even if they hadn't been he wouldn't have known as I was crossways on in the road turning when he came into view and the indicators had cancelled.

 

Etc. Etc.

 

I fully understand the alienation of the young coloured community.

 

I was once stopped for having no insurance, I told the copper I had just been pulled over 10 minutes before and that the insurance company had got the details wrong, quick radio check and he was very apologetic