Dispute at Pillings

[bigcol]

Sorry please forgive me how has CRT had a result??

 

What would be a result is that CRT had got paid the 180 grand, instead the company thought hey oh we just screw CRT and all CRT customers.

 

Hey oh we start again what shall we call our selves, how much should we pay ourselves , CRT are going to offer us another chance, to screw things up. CRT won't let their customers down we be all right, who's for another pint , CRTs paying.!!

 

 

Everyone that pays CRT licence fees have losses out that's 180,000 that should have been spent on our canals

 

Who do you think is smiling now, the Pilling crew, they will be celebrating this weekend for that you can be sure! In the pub/ club no doubt we all paid for. Or maybe they will be pushing the boat out!!!

Edited April 11, 2014 by bigcol

[Dangerous Dave]

Sorry please forgive me how has CRT had a result??

 

What would be a result is that CRT had got paid the 180 grand, instead the company thought hey oh we just screw CRT and all CRT customers.

 

Hey oh we start again what shall we call our selves, how much should we pay ourselves , CRT are going to offer us another chance, to screw things up. CRT won't let their customers down we be all right, who's for another pint , CRTs paying.!!

 

 

Everyone that pays CRT licence fees have losses out that's 180,000 that should have been spent on our canals

 

Who do you think is smiling now, the Pilling crew, they will be celebrating this weekend for that you can be sure! In the pub/ club no doubt we all paid for. Or maybe they will be pushing the boat out!!!

 

 

Cool it Col!

 

Anyone with integrity is fuming right now..But it isn't over yet i'm sorry to say!

 

The full amount of dosh still has to be paid..so far everything the PLT/PLM lot have posted is a lot of bull!

[bigcol]

Hi Dangerous Dave

 

My Apologies, wasn't intended to offend you, just gets my mad up !!

 

COMPETITION TIME

Let's as the forum, award greenies to the first picture of Mr Paul Lille, or any of his team with a drink in hand celebrating! With a bottle of champagne in hand this weekend bonus points!

 

because come on, he can afford to, he has done well, very very well!, a pay rise may be in order?

Anyway Full face be nice,so that we can recognise the man, and take our hats off to him when passing

 

Greenies for life!!

 

Anyway wife's just given me my medication, so I be quite or the rest of the day lol

 

 

Again Dave apologies, and agree, this will go on along way yet,

 

All the best

 

Col

Edited April 11, 2014 by bigcol

[Dangerous Dave]

Hi Dangerous Dave

 

My Apologies, wasn't intended to offend you, just gets my mad up !!

 

COMPETITION TIME

Let's as the forum, award greenies to the first picture of Mr Paul Lille, or any of his team with a drink in hand celebrating! With a bottle of champagne in hand this weekend bonus points!

because come on, he can afford to, he has done well, very well!

 

Full face be nice,so that we can recognise the man, and take our hats off to him when passing

 

Greenies for life!!

 

Anyway wife's just given me my tablets,

 

 

Again Dave apologies, and agree, this will go on along way yet,

 

All the best

 

Col

 

 

Your not JL in disquise are you..lol

 

 

If you can see the Pillings website you can get a head and shoulders of a shot that was taken a few years ago..

 

When or if you see an up to date picture of him you will be astonished how much he has aged in appearance..

 

Even he must therefore have a conscience!

[MtB]

So PLT have paid out £31k to get the marina open again, instead of the £180k owed by QMP.

 

I'd call that one helluva result for Lillie and Steadman.

 

I'll predict CRT don't get another penny out of them now for another five years

 

MtB

Edited April 11, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Dangerous Dave]

Haha ..Just had a C&RT "boaters update come through!

 

One of the articules are National licence evasion down to 4 %

So PLT have paid out £31k to get the marina open again, instead of the £180k owed by QMP.

 

I'd call that one helluva result for Lillie and Steadman.

 

I'll predict CRT don't get another penny out of them now for another five years

 

MtB

 

 

 

Because "this time next year" !!!

[Alan de Enfield]

Dangerous Dave, on 11 Apr 2014 - 4:18 PM, said:

 

One of the articules are National licence evasion down to 4 %

 

 

Did they not mention that NAA evasion is now only at 2% (1 in 50) but is expected to rise in forthcoming years.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

And my bank has (or had, last time I needed it) a limit of £10k per day.

 

So I bet that's the reason for the three days. Looks more and more like Mr/Mrs Steadman is bailing them out with some readies now push has come to shove.

 

The brinksmanship appears to have paid off handsomely.

 

Current score: Steadman/Lillie 180,000. CRT 31,000.

 

CRT badly need to up their game.

 

MtB

[Peter X]

If this figure of £31,000 per year, the source of which is a bit unclear to me, is correct, then it would appear that PLT or rather its director RR may have bagged a discount?

 

They're closing G jetty, so if there are jetties A to F and those are of equal size, that's only one seventh of the marina at most, about 14.3%. And the email RR quotes from Phil Spencer says 40 out of 315 berths have been closed, which is about 12.7%

But I think a previous figure quoted for Pilling's annual NAA was £44,000, so about 30% seems to have been knocked off.

 

If as it appears the CRT are writing off the £180,000 but planning to block the marina in future the instant that a payment from PLT is overdue, then I think that's a Pyrrhic victory for Steadman/Lillie. They've got away with the £180,000 rip-off, but they will pay a long term price because they must already be receiving less income than they would if the marina had been properly run, and the loss of reputation from the whole affair will ensure that their income will go on suffering. Even if Steadman realises that he'd be better off pushing PL out of the businesses, which is within his power, it will take some time for a decent incoming manager, assuming one can be found who wants the job, to put things right.

[Dangerous Dave]

If this figure of £31,000 per year, the source of which is a bit unclear to me, is correct, then it would appear that PLT or rather its director RR may have bagged a discount?

 

They're closing G jetty, so if there are jetties A to F and those are of equal size, that's only one seventh of the marina at most, about 14.3%. And the email RR quotes from Phil Spencer says 40 out of 315 berths have been closed, which is about 12.7%

But I think a previous figure quoted for Pilling's annual NAA was £44,000, so about 30% seems to have been knocked off.

 

If as it appears the CRT are writing off the £180,000 but planning to block the marina in future the instant that a payment from PLT is overdue, then I think that's a Pyrrhic victory for Steadman/Lillie. They've got away with the £180,000 rip-off, but they will pay a long term price because they must already be receiving less income than they would if the marina had been properly run, and the loss of reputation from the whole affair will ensure that their income will go on suffering. Even if Steadman realises that he'd be better off pushing PL out of the businesses, which is within his power, it will take some time for a decent incoming manager, assuming one can be found who wants the job, to put things right.

 

 

The jetties go up to K..

 

Like i said no one but PLT and C&RT know the actual amount of monies to be forwarded.

 

We cannot as we have experience of take any notice of what the back office say!.

 

Thinking about it ..Most people like a deal and if as i expect there will be plenty to encourage boaters now into the marina .

Not everyone is interested in the politics of a marina..They just want to have a good time..Different story when you live aboard in such when you are being ripped of in one and more circumstances of course!

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dangerous Dave

[Naughty Cal]

Where has it been said that CRT are writing off the £180k?

[b0atman]

This is cause for contacting MPs and getting CaRT on a similar footing to the NT so that management are answerable to the members I.e Licence payers .

[StarUKKiwi]

Why is the initial payment being made in three seperate payments over three days?

Any transaction over £10k, has to go through provenance or via CHAPS - suggests a private payment rather than company?

[Dangerous Dave]

This is cause for contacting MPs and getting CaRT on a similar footing to the NT so that management are answerable to the members I.e Licence payers .

 

 

Jumping the gun a bit over all this i feel..

From what we have read ..Not all the money has been paid..I go along with the phrase you havn't sold anything until the money is tucked up in my bank account or pocket

 

 

"This time next...Wednesday " is the time to lobby Mp's ..Anyhow who are the wrong doers here?

 

No business/charity is bullet proof in way of debts..Not C&Rt they were dealing with wrong -uns!

Any transaction over £10k, has to go through provenance or via CHAPS - suggests a private payment rather than company?

 

 

That's interesting as we understood that we were paid via PLM..We suspected Steadman as the payee

[Grace and Favour]

If this figure of £31,000 per year, the source of which is a bit unclear to me, is correct, then it would appear that PLT or rather its director RR may have bagged a discount?

 

They're closing G jetty, so if there are jetties A to F and those are of equal size, that's only one seventh of the marina at most, about 14.3%. And the email RR quotes from Phil Spencer says 40 out of 315 berths have been closed, which is about 12.7%

But I think a previous figure quoted for Pilling's annual NAA was £44,000, so about 30% seems to have been knocked off.

 

If as it appears the CRT are writing off the £180,000 but planning to block the marina in future the instant that a payment from PLT is overdue, then I think that's a Pyrrhic victory for Steadman/Lillie. They've got away with the £180,000 rip-off, but they will pay a long term price because they must already be receiving less income than they would if the marina had been properly run, and the loss of reputation from the whole affair will ensure that their income will go on suffering. Even if Steadman realises that he'd be better off pushing PL out of the businesses, which is within his power, it will take some time for a decent incoming manager, assuming one can be found who wants the job, to put things right.

Quote from Phil Spencer's email:

"

2. Confirmed that they will enter into a standard NAA, to commence as soon as completion can be achieved, at the standard rate of 9% of gross moorings income that applies to all new marinas, but with a reduced capacity of 275 berths. 40 berths will be put fully out of use."

(Which suggests there's no discount bagged)

[PaulG]

If this figure of £31,000 per year, the source of which is a bit unclear to me, is correct, then it would appear that PLT or rather its director RR may have bagged a discount?

 

They're closing G jetty, so if there are jetties A to F and those are of equal size, that's only one seventh of the marina at most, about 14.3%. And the email RR quotes from Phil Spencer says 40 out of 315 berths have been closed, which is about 12.7%

But I think a previous figure quoted for Pilling's annual NAA was £44,000, so about 30% seems to have been knocked off.

 

If as it appears the CRT are writing off the £180,000 but planning to block the marina in future the instant that a payment from PLT is overdue, then I think that's a Pyrrhic victory for Steadman/Lillie. They've got away with the £180,000 rip-off, but they will pay a long term price because they must already be receiving less income than they would if the marina had been properly run, and the loss of reputation from the whole affair will ensure that their income will go on suffering. Even if Steadman realises that he'd be better off pushing PL out of the businesses, which is within his power, it will take some time for a decent incoming manager, assuming one can be found who wants the job, to put things right.

There was never any chance of CRT getting the £180K,and it would be naieve to think otherwise. The company that owes that money is being liquidated, so it was always pretty much "game over" as far as that debt is concerned.

 

But the reputation of Pillings is, IMHO, in tatters. Their dirty linen has been washed in public, their business dealings and practices sliced and diced. If it had been my own business, I would have been mortified by all this unwelcome attention.

 

CRT have not been specific on the details, but they said that they have quite rightly firmed up the financial security of their future dealings with Pillings. This could possibly take the form of Directors guarantees or a charge over property or other assets. Obviously we have no way of knowing. But whichever way you care to cut it, Pillings have not got out of this "scot-free".

 

If anything, the new NAA could prove to be more onerous than the old one that they complained so much about. Certainly the old BW seem to have been very (incredibly?) flexible regarding prompt payment. I suspect that CRT, in the light of experience, will be less so.

[adam1uk]

If anything, the new NAA could prove to be more onerous than the old one that they complained so much about. Certainly the old BW seem to have been very (incredibly?) flexible regarding prompt payment. I suspect that CRT, in the light of experience, will be less so.

As I understand it, the NAA is normally payable quarterly in advance, so by demanding a year in advance, CRT are already being less flexible.

[Paul C]

Quote from Phil Spencer's email:

"

2. Confirmed that they will enter into a standard NAA, to commence as soon as completion can be achieved, at the standard rate of 9% of gross moorings income that applies to all new marinas, but with a reduced capacity of 275 berths. 40 berths will be put fully out of use."

(Which suggests there's no discount bagged)

 

That's a pretty cheap mooring rate then, given that we know the NAA payment is £31000

 

(£1252 per boat per year on average)

[Marc Harris]

Well, as we seemed to have found that it's acceptable to steal from a charity, I'm off out this evening to ram-raid our local Oxfam*.

 

*Not really, I don't want CSH reporting me to the Police twice in one week!

 

Happy Boating to all the residents of PLM

[Grace and Favour]

Marc - I've sent you an email . . would you check it for me please?

 

Thanks

 

G&F

Edited April 11, 2014 by Grace & Favour

[MtB]

 

That's a pretty cheap mooring rate then, given that we know the NAA payment is £31000

 

(£1252 per boat per year on average)

 

I agree. The figures simply don't stack up.

 

Marina moorings are typically about £2k a year. This is £1,665 excluding VAT.

 

275 spaces x £1,665 is a total annual mooring income potential of £457,875.

 

9% of £457,875 is £41,208.75.

 

Coincidentally, 25% discount gets us to the £31k quoted as the annual NAA ,so whichever way you look at it CRT appears to have bent over and allowed Pillings to roger them senseless.

 

Unless all the moorings at Pillings have gone down to £1,500 a year, which I doubt. Their website says a 60ft mooring is £200 a month.

 

 

MtB

[Dangerous Dave]

 

I agree. The figures simply don't stack up.

 

Marina moorings are typically about £2k a year. This is £1,665 excluding VAT.

 

275 spaces x £1,665 is a total annual mooring income potential of £457,875.

 

9% of £457,875 is £41,208.75.

 

Coincidentally, 25% discount gets us to the £31k quoted as the annual NAA ,so whichever way you look at it CRT appears to have bent over and allowed Pillings to roger them senseless.

 

Unless all the moorings at Pillings have gone down to £1,500 a year, which I doubt. Their website says a 60ft mooring is £200 a month.

 

 

MtB

 

 

At least 1/3 rd of the moorings are small craft...Say £750 per annum mooring fee!

Edited April 11, 2014 by Dangerous Dave

[johnlillie]

the figure of £31k came from my daughter, she works in the office from time to time

[dor]

NBW have caught up and are saying how "a public relations disaster has been avoided". However it is noticeable that they do not now say for whom the PR disaster would have been for.

[Marc Harris]

Marc - I've sent you an email . . would you check it for me please?

 

Thanks

 

G&F

Just checked the email address I have listed here, and I haven't worked there for 4 years, so I can't! Sorry. Also tried to change to my current email, but it won't accept my password (going senile in my old age, so the tablet remembers my passwords for me).

 

If you want to re-send it to b0aterstech at gmail dot-thingy com, substituting the zero for an 'Oh', then I'll respond straight away.

 

 

Edited to add - - email sent, Marc. Thanks, G&F

Edited April 11, 2014 by Grace & Favour