a very dumb question but better safe than sorry

[chubby]

Hello folks

 

when fitting a calorifier a short while ago i lost an amount of coolant from my engine whilst connecting hoses to the calorifier coil . i now need to top up the antifreeze / water levels . Its been a long time since i messed with an engine . The last one was on a MK 2 escort .... i loved that car ..... ,

Anyway . My manual ( barrus shire ) says coolant is topped up via a plastic expansion tank . Only thing is i don t seem to have one .

Theres a " radiator ". cap , like on a car with about 18" of low diameter rubber hose . I guess if theres any " venting " (?) necessary then it goes straight down into the bilge below .

in tha absence of an expansion tank would i just pour in a 50/50 antifreeze - water mix into where the radiator cap goes ? To what visible level ?

 

There you have it folks - i did say it was a dumb question ... very dumb . But im happy to embarass myself if it goes anyway towards looking after my boat . Feel free to take pi** as you feel necessary , i think i may deserve it but only after providing a helpful answer please !

cheers

[Richard10002]

I need to top up my coolant and am lucky enough to have a reservoir with min/max markings. What I don't know is what kind of antifreeze is already in, and what %age mix.

 

ISTR that you can't mix different types of antifreeze, so how can we tell what is in, and what we can add?

 

Hope this helps the OP and others if/when we get some answers.

[Pete & Helen]

Differing types should not be mixed. The best thing to do if you dont know the type is to drain, flush, and fill with the mix recommended. a 25% mix should see you ok down to about -10 degC If you suspect you need it to below this then increase as per the instructions on your antifreeze.

 

You can test the SG of the coolant to see how much protection you have. Lidl have had testers in recently that give a direct reading, or use a standard hydrometer

[BEngo]

Or draw off a sample of coolant into a plastic tub (yoghurt pot) and put it in a 4* freezer. If it doesn't set solid you are OK down to below -18C.

 

N

[MtB]

There you have it folks - i did say it was a dumb question ... very dumb .

 

No such thing as a dumb question provided you've given it a modicum of thought prior to asking, which you obviously have.

 

As they are so fond of saying on training courses, the only dumb question is the one you failed to ask....

 

Blimey I sound like a pop psychologist now!

 

 

MtB

[bizzard]

If you can remember roughly how much coolant you lost, say a couple of litres, then pour in a litre or two of coolant, start the engine up and warm it through with the filler cap removed. This should allow any trapped air to escape. Keep an eye on the level and top up bit by bit. As the engine heats up the coolant will expand and being as you don't seem to have a reservoir header tank the coolant will easily overflow if topped up too much. So once the engine and coolant is up too normal running temperature and any air in the system has dispersed do the final top up and put the filler cap back on.

Edited December 13, 2013 by bizzard

[chubby]

Hi

 

thanks for these answers . I was expecting more of a ( friendly )caning for such a simple mechanical question .

I ll follow Bizzards advice as i only lost very little - maybe even just a litre or so - it certainly wasn t much , when i disconnected the hoses to & from the calorifier .

I'm looking to have the engine serviced in the new year as i really am unsure when the last owner serviced it . A really thorough service after which i can make sure it gets looked after so Ill have the coolant flushed out and replaced then and just top up for now - if that sounds feasable ?

 

cheers again

[Alan de Enfield]

Different coloured antifreeze - its not just so you can choose which colour you like.

 

red/pink etc - Organic Acid Technology

blue/green etc - Glycol Ethelene


The two do not mix - they attach to each other and turn into a brown sludge that blocks the system - then you overheat and damage the engine.

[Richard10002]

Different coloured antifreeze - its not just so you can choose which colour you like.

 

red/pink etc - Organic Acid Technology

 

blue/green etc - Glycol Ethelene

 

 

The two do not mix - they attach to each other and turn into a brown sludge that blocks the system - then you overheat and damage the engine.

So as long as I get the same colour, I should be OK to top up without draining and flushing?

 

I think it's tending towards a red/pink rather than bluey green, but I'll have a good look tomorrow.

[nicknorman]

Yes, you can mix brands provided they are the same group (blue/green or orange/pink). The former is the more traditional, the latter more modern and has the advantage that it has to be changed less often to preserve the anti-corrosive properties, but of course its more expensive.

 

So yes, just top up with the same group.

[chubby]

Hi

 

Ok . Inside the filler cap i cant see any fluid . So ive no idea if its blue or pink . ive no idea how to drain it out altogether & suspect that it would pricey to replace it all with new .What i do is that i didn t lose alot of coolant during the calorifier replacement .

SO

 

If i top up with a measured amount of water only adding 500ml s at a time until i can see it beneath the filler cap " hole " & then draw off some using a little hand operated cheap pump and pour it into a see thru cup i will probably be able to ascertain if its blueish or pinkish .

Then pump out half the water i added & replace it with an equal amount of neat antifreeze of the correct colour then i should be sorted ?

 

Any disagreements finding out which type i have using this method ??

 

cheers

 

edit . It should say " what i do know is ....."

Edited December 13, 2013 by chubby

[Stilllearning]

Sounds like a sensible plan to me.

Addendum to the above, put some water in , run the engine to mix up , then sample the liquid.

[nicknorman]

Try just running the engine first with the cap off, you might be able to see the fluid circulating. And when it warms up, the fluid will expand and may become visible even if it wasn't when you first started it.

[kevinl]

Is this a raw water cooled engine with a heat exchanger like my Vetus, if so mine only takes about 5 litre so the antifreeze costs are peanuts. I disconnected the overflow pipe (the low diameter rubber tube you refer to) pushed it down to the bottom of the heat exchanger and syphoned the lot out and replaced it. different matter if it's a skin tank.

K

[chubby]

hi

 

Thanks again . Slow start today after listening to the ashes test match on radio 5 this morning .

My engine isnt raw water cooled . Looking thru the manual again it actually states very clearly that a 50/50 mix of water & Ethylene glycol based antifreeze is used .

Ive got a big bottle of this that i bought for using on my central heating circuit.

 

Can anyone imagine a situation where another person might use the other type ?

 

I m going to do that little test by drawing off the coolant after running the engine so i d expect to see blue colour if the manuals been follwed . Im sure it has been and no ones used any of the pink stuff but just to be sure i ll check before adding more blue antifreeze mix ,

 

cheers again

[nicknorman]

Can anyone imagine a situation where another person might use the other type ?

I m going to do that little test by drawing off the coolant after running the engine so i d expect to see blue colour if the manuals been follwed . Im sure it has been and no ones used any of the pink stuff but just to be sure i ll check before adding more blue antifreeze mix ,

cheers again

There is no technical reason why the pink stuff could not have been used at some point - provided the old stuff was properly drained first. Someone might have been attracted by its longer service life. Therefore testing what is there at the moment is strongly recommended.

[chubby]

Thanks for all the suggestions & help . All tested & it was blue afterall and now topped up

 

cheers

[BlueStringPudding]

Different coloured antifreeze - its not just so you can choose which colour you like.

 

red/pink etc - Organic Acid Technology

 

blue/green etc - Glycol Ethelene

 

 

The two do not mix - they attach to each other and turn into a brown sludge that blocks the system - then you overheat and damage the engine.

 

But what about the several makes of ready mixed antifreeze on the market that claim they're compatible with any colour of antifreeze already in the system?

[Alan de Enfield]

But what about the several makes of ready mixed antifreeze on the market that claim they're compatible with any colour of antifreeze already in the system?

I have no idea - but I wouldnt buy it as I begrudge paying more for a litre of pre-mixed (with water) as I do for 'neat' antifreeze.

 

Halfords (I know, I know, ) charge £9.99 for 2 litres of ready mixed - as I buy antifreeze in 25 litre drums I pay only £3.50'ish per litre ( from memory its £70 + vat)from agricultural/ farm suppliers.

[blackrose]

Theres a " radiator ". cap , like on a car with about 18" of low diameter rubber hose . I guess if theres any " venting " (?) necessary then it goes straight down into the bilge below .

in tha absence of an expansion tank would i just pour in a 50/50 antifreeze - water mix into where the radiator cap goes ? To what visible level ?

 

Just in case nobody mentioned it, that part of the engine under the filler cap is the expansion tank. Some people connect an additional expansion tank for greater volumes and expansion of coolant, but like most modern engines your Barrus Shire does have its own small tank.

[LankyStreak]

Different coloured antifreeze - its not just so you can choose which colour you like.

 

red/pink etc - Organic Acid Technology

 

blue/green etc - Glycol Ethelene

 

 

The two do not mix - they attach to each other and turn into a brown sludge that blocks the system - then you overheat and damage the engine.

Hi Alan

 

I realise this thread may have died now but by coincidence I replaced the coolant in my Beta 50 on Sunday and I confess I'm an antifreeze ignoramus. I only got my narrowboat at Easter and it was the first time I've ever replaced coolant in any engine, boat or car. The coolant I drained off was pink, and I replaced it with a 50:50 dilution of Comma Xstream G30 concentrate (http://www.uk.commaoil.com/passenger-vehicles/products/view/351/XSR5L/) which is also pink but is described as "Ethylene glycol with OAT". I would be really interested if you could explain a little more about antifreezes. In my (ignorant) case after draining the old coolant I did refill the system with tap water and run the engine for 5 minutes before draining that. Then I filled it with the new 50:50 coolant. Would this be sufficient to avoid the sludge you describe if I unwittingly mixed the two sorts of antifreeze? After doing this I looked up the Comma data sheet and see they recommend diluting the antifreeze with deionised water, not tap water. Doh! Will I harm my engine by using tap water?

 

Thanks!

[Alan de Enfield]

Assuming you drained the keel tanks (if you have them) as well as the engine then you should have no problems.

 

I must admit to never having used de-ionised water in a radiator - only tap water.

[BruceinSanity]

If you have a source of free de-ionised water such as a dehumidifier, I guess it's worth using that as top up to avoid scale building up.

 

We run a small DeLonghi dehumidifier in the engine room during the winter and end up with more pure water than we can store.

[Lizzy]

I want to make sure my coolant is up to the -5 forecast for London tonight (I know quite late to be thinking about this ...). The Isuzu website tells me I should use non-silicate coolant. Been to Halfords (before I knew this) and discovered there is blue and pink. I believe the pink was called non-silicate. Is that right? I bought a little tester, a glass tube with some balls in it, but I struggle to make it work as the water level is fairly low down in the header tank and it's hard to get any water into the tube without air bubbles. What little water I got into it, seemed to indicate that protection was "medium" whatever that is supposed to mean. I don't fully trust this, because of the trapped air in the tube. With that tiny amount it was impossible to say whether it was pink-ish or blue-ish.

 

I am thinking now to top up with pure "pink stuff" and run the engine for a bit to mix it up. I think it won't take in very much, maybe 1-2 litres as level is maybe 2in below the filler cap. Is that worth it? Or should I fill in more right up to the filler cap and let it spill out when it gets warm?

[Sea Dog]

With that tiny amount it was impossible to say whether it was pink-ish or blue-ish.

 

I am thinking now to top up with pure "pink stuff"... /quote]

 

Different types of coolants don't mix. You need to either identify what's in there and match it or drain it, flush and refill with a coolant compatible with your engine. If you're gonna do that, then longer life is the sensible choice (blue is usually 2 years, pink is usually 5 years). If you need to add some before you have chance to identify or drain, Prestone make some they claim to be compatible with all other types. It's available relatively widely.