"red diesel"

[nebulae]

I ran my Landrover for a fortnight on Kerosine. Then we realised that something was wrong(.It smelled different).Turned out that the delivery driver had put derv in the kerosine tank and kerosine in the derv tank.Did not seem to harm the Landrover,but probably not a good thing in the long run.

[bigrob]

Round here, propulsion diesel is around £1.45 a litre whereas forecourt white is £1.36.

 

Would that be a common figure for what people pay for propulsion - 9 or 10p/litre more than on a forecourt?

 

Also I am curious how much is non-propolusion diesel?

[Orca]

I've been using white diesel (mixed with a bit of kerosene and petrol) for around 2 years now - the money I have saved in Webasto costs and servicing easily makes up for the extra outlay. I believe red diesel is now low sulphur fuel, like road diesel, though I doubt I'll switch back after the 'hell' I've had in the past with the damn stuff...

[Trento]

Not True. You can if you have separate fuel tanks dedicated to domestic use.

Would that be your. Bow Tanks.. by any chance.?

[Ex- Member]

Would that be your. Bow Tanks.. by any chance.?

 

It would

[bottle]

 

Would that be a common figure for what people pay for propulsion - 9 or 10p/litre more than on a forecourt?

 

Also I am curious how much is non-propolusion diesel?

 

The cost will vary depending on where you buy it, no one can give you a definite amount.

 

The last I bought was was £0.89 per litre domestic, before that it was £0.75 but that is at a very well known supplier at Wheaton Aston, and that will make propulsion about £1.39 or .£1.25

 

There is a formulae but I always work on propulsion being about £0.50 more than domestic.

[alan_fincher]

 

There is a formulae but I always work on propulsion being about £0.50 more than domestic.

 

ast time I did the sums, if the supplier is doing things right, that is about what you should expect.

 

It does slowly change over time as they tinker with the exact fuel duty rates for each, but by the time 5% VAT is added, 50p is about right for the expected difference between propulsion and non propulsion.

 

EDIT:

 

Actually, checking back, unless it has changed since July, the difference should be 49 pence, when rounded to the nearest penny.

 

The maths is in my old post here.

Edited November 20, 2013 by alan_fincher

[bottle]

I knew it was you.

[Jigsawged]

Roger, When you buy your diesel you are entitled to specify your intended ratio of domestic to propulsion use, and pay tax accordingly. The retailer looks it up on a chart. Some retailers can't be bothered and force you to declare 60%/40%. MtB

Absolutely! Plus HMRC will accept what you choose to declare. Don't be bullied by lazy marina/diesel retailers. It's up to you to assess what you think is a fair proportion eligible for the propulsion element and that is dependent entirely on whether you actually cruise a lot or not. Those who reside on a permanent mooring with no movement are entitled to claim a 100% tax free rate.

[Sierra2]

Strange image in my head of adding a second fill point on their deck marked 'stove/heating fuel' ect with the piping running into the same tank for the engine.... seems legit and would solve my (lack of) understanding for mathematics, self assessment and ultimately conscience on this in depth subject....

 

Chaz

[ditchcrawler]

Strange image in my head of adding a second fill point on their deck marked 'stove/heating fuel' ect with the piping running into the same tank for the engine.... seems legit and would solve my (lack of) understanding for mathematics, self assessment and ultimately conscience on this in depth subject....

 

Chaz

It solves nothing, the percentage you declare is between you, HMRC and your conscience , no one else.

If a retailer is prepared to accept other than 60/40 he wont care where you put what as long as you pay for it. If he only sells on a 60/40 bases then that is what he will charge again regardless where you put it. Ask before you buy.

[OldGoat]

At last a bit of sense!

 

As Ditchcrawler says It's entirely up to the boater.

Reasonable folk will do some sensible calculations and come up with a split that they can live with (and perhaps account for on The Terrible Day of Judgement), anything form 10% upwards IMHO.

 

Unreasonable / chancers will claim 0% regardless 'cos the concept of fairness and reasonableness is perhaps outside their realm....

 

I can't understand why folks get so heated up by this issue.

[Dave Payne]

Is it not just a lot simpler to have a twink tank system with a tank selector switch??

 

White when moving and switch over to red when charging, heatin water and stuff?

[bottle]

but when moving you are also charging and heating water and stuff.

[nb Innisfree]

Reasonable folk will do some sensible calculations and come up with a split that they can live with (and perhaps account for on The Terrible Day of Judgement),

 

Gulp!! Oh Lord forgive me for I have sinned!

[Dave Payne]

but when moving you are also charging and heating water and stuff.

 

 

But the fuel is being used to move first and foremost, the heating/charging part is a bonus....

 

In the eyes of the law are you not required to pay the higher tax because of this?

[Ex- Member]

 

 

But the fuel is being used to move first and foremost, the heating/charging part is a bonus....

 

In the eyes of the law are you not required to pay the higher tax because of this?

 

 

 

But the fuel is being used to move first and foremost, the heating/charging part is a bonus....

 

In the eyes of the law are you not required to pay the higher tax because of this?

 

You could argue though, you needed to charge your batteries and whilst the engine was running you took advantage and cruised

 

What about those running their engines in gear too

Edited November 27, 2013 by Julynian

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

But the fuel is being used to move first and foremost, the heating/charging part is a bonus....

 

In the eyes of the law are you not required to pay the higher tax because of this?

No, because the HMRC have said they are quite happy for all boaters to have a split even if the diesel only feeds the engine.

[Dave Payne]

No, because the HMRC have said they are quite happy for all boaters to have a split even if the diesel only feeds the engine.

 

Based on that then, if you have two tanks, both red, one you use for heating/charging you pay the lesser tax, the other you use for moving you pay a split because you use it for moving and heating/charging at the same time?

[bottle]

Yes, that is exactly what I do and checked with HRMC when all this first started.

 

As Julynian says and it was also described in that fashion but a fuel supplier.

 

The engine was being used to charge the batteries and supply hot water, so a declaration of 0/100% was OK, and by a stroke of luck the boat moved along the canal.

 

I doubt, of course whether this would stand up in any case bought by HMRC.

[MtB]

 

Based on that then, if you have two tanks, both red, one you use for heating/charging you pay the lesser tax, the other you use for moving you pay a split because you use it for moving and heating/charging at the same time?

 

You could but what's the point? When you finally 'click' how it works, you'll understand you only need the second tank in your imagination.

 

You buy your diesel and make the same declarations as though you had the two tanks you describe, but bung it all into the same tank. The end result is the same as far as HMRC is concerned.

 

 

MtB

[ditchcrawler]

 

You could but what's the point? When you finally 'click' how it works, you'll understand you only need the second tank in your imagination.

 

You buy your diesel and make the same declarations as though you had the two tanks you describe, but bung it all into the same tank. The end result is the same as far as HMRC is concerned.

 

 

MtB

But you will if we have to go white

[MtB]

But you will if we have to go white

 

How so?

 

If we have to go white 100% tax will be paid on all of it. So one tank will still be fine, as I understand it.

 

MtB

[Dave Payne]

 

You could but what's the point? When you finally 'click' how it works, you'll understand you only need the second tank in your imagination.

 

You buy your diesel and make the same declarations as though you had the two tanks you describe, but bung it all into the same tank. The end result is the same as far as HMRC is concerned.

 

 

MtB

 

I get ya!

 

Was just thinking that maybe you had to show HMRC two different tanks..

[MtB]

 

I get ya!

 

Was just thinking that maybe you had to show HMRC two different tanks..

 

Nah. HMRC aren't interested in wasting days on end and travel expenses collecting £15 in missing duty from people like us. They are paying lip service to the EEC ruling by operating the scheme. They are no more interested in operating it than you or me..!

 

MtB