CRT No Longer Wish To Meet With Boaters

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

Well if that was what the beef about, I can understand his frustration. Do we really need CRT to provide us with nicely manicured edges where we can step of the boat to tie up along the whole length of the canal. I think there are much more important priorities.

 

Yes - a manicured bank is nice, but a bit of vegetation has never stopped me mooring where I want to - I use a gangplank, and cut the vegetation myself where necessary.

 

I think this must be a new set of expectations from newcomers to the cut.

Nowhere have we asked for manicured towpaths. The 78 year old boater that I cruise with stepped off his boat into long grass and his foot went down a hole twisted and he was unable to leave his boat for 4 days. These emails were about boater safety amongst other things. Now if that does not concern you that is fine by me but it concerns me. as do all other boater issues. I have no problem with the fact that you did not like the idea of boaters having an independent voice you are in the majority but it matters greatly to me and a few others.

[jenlyn]

Well if that was what the beef about, I can understand his frustration. Do we really need CRT to provide us with nicely manicured edges where we can step of the boat to tie up along the whole length of the canal. I think there are much more important priorities.Yes - a manicured bank is nice, but a bit of vegetation has never stopped me mooring where I want to - I use a gangplank, and cut the vegetation myself where necessary.I think this must be a new set of expectations from newcomers to the cut.

Very selfish thinking. Lets hope you can continue with your gangplank for many years.

[cotswoldsman]

Very selfish thinking. Lets hope you can continue with your gangplank for many years.

how do you use a gangplank on dangerous low trees?

[billS]

Nowhere have we asked for manicured towpaths. The 78 year old boater that I cruise with stepped off his boat into long grass and his foot went down a hole twisted and he was unable to leave his boat for 4 days. These emails were about boater safety amongst other things. Now if that does not concern you that is fine by me but it concerns me. as do all other boater issues. I have no problem with the fact that you did not like the idea of boaters having an independent voice you are in the majority but it matters greatly to me and a few others.

I am more concerned that scarce money is prioritised for maintenance and keeping the navigation open. I obviously don't know the details of the case, but keeping all banks maintsined to the extent that the accident described could not happen, is patently absurd. Boating has an element of danger and risk.

Very selfish thinking. Lets hope you can continue with your gangplank for many years.

 

No - just practical boating.

[DeanS]

What's the point of a positive email to CRT. It just clogs their inbox. The negative emails obviously highlight some failure which can then be sent down the line to someone responsible for sorting it out. Harsh perhaps, but real. They're earning salaries to act on their "users" unhappiness. For every negative mail not sent to them, there are probably loads of boaters who dont bother contacting CRT and just live with it. For example the fact that boaters have to leave Leeds and travel 5hrs to get past Rodley , else endure the afternoon problems from the locals. No one moans about that....we just live with it as part of being a boater. ....but....I'm sad to say....many elderly boaters will stop boating (and paying CRT) if they don't start oiling those swingbridges and sorting out all of those kids fishing on locks.

 

 

ETA....in retrospect, I guess a few nice emails wouldnt harm anyone

Edited August 15, 2013 by DeanS

[davidc]

Dear Cotswoldman,

 

I have not met you yet, but hope to at the Brum floating market.

You appear to be the sort of man who can make things happen...so

What I think is needed is a new organisation/umbrella organisation, not just of unaffiliated boaters, but of everybody who has an interest in boats and navigation. Boaters, Hire boat operators, boat builders, marinas, chandlers, and even those walkers who like to see boats on the canal.

 

Sadly the various boating groups spend too much energy squabbling amongst themselves but the tone of your eMail from CaRT suggests that the real divide in CaRTs eyes is between boats/navigation and "towpath users". We need to stand up for Boating!

 

.............Dave

 

 

got my vote and subs

[cotswoldsman]

I am more concerned that scarce money is prioritised for maintenance and keeping the navigation open. I obviously don't know the details of the case, but keeping all banks maintsined to the extent that the accident described could not happen, is patently absurd. Boating has an element of danger and risk.

 

 

Ah well that's fine then

[NB Lola]

Boaters accept risk.

 

Do boaters now want less risk than in the days when the canals were first built for commercial purposes?

 

Things happen

 

Accessibility, all for it but there is a token of realism required also, and Ieam only a token, inclusivity is important.

 

The post in question - I meet people who say before they think every day, I reckon I may be one of them. If mr did well (he thinks) stands by his statement then he needs to re-consider his position as only a fool criticises 30% of the business income as being small players in the value business.

 

Action is not needed other than:-

 

Dear CRT official,

 

We know you read this and we encourage you to exercise your right of reply. In not doing so we understand that you have not learnt the first mantra of charity status "do not cut off the hand that feeds you".

 

Apologies, rant over.

[MRarabia]

Well where do I start?

As a breed, we boaters generally wont pull together. Consequently, we get walked all over. That's what's happening now.
As a breed, we boaters generally argue amongst themselves about every aspect of the canal life from toilets to towpaths, from dog shit to CRT shit.
Getting boaters to act unilaterally is like herding cats. Seemingly we dont do mutual interest support, we prefer division.
Paraders versus live-aboards, towpathers versus marina whallas, plastic boats versus steel boats etc, etc.
We're divided, so were ruled!
Boaters have to smarten up, pull together and sing from the same hymn sheet.

There are too many boaters who are public house revolutionaries, who talk tough over a pint but duck out when it comes to putting heads above parapets.
Then there's the bottom end boaters who havent even heard of the internet let alone know how to use it. I call these "Out of the loopers".
There are even more boaters who are not bothered because they didnt come to the canal to fight corners and besides they dont think anything they can do will make any difference.
These boaters have given in before they get up in the afternoon. For them too much water has already passed under the bridge. Theyre the 'We're all doomed anyway' merchants.

Was it not Ronald Reagan who said 'freedom is eternal vigilance'?
Boaters in the main have been overly lax over too many years and now that reality has hit us, its a bit late. CRT's new style is alarming!.
So what do we do about our new situation? Rest assured doing nothing will make it worse.

I cant think creating yet another organisation is the best route. We cant even support the ones weve got!
Better to get stuck into what we have got and support it to the hilt.

For me that is NABO. All other outfits are dominated by CRT sycophants with decenting flanks emasculated by the compliants.
As a member of NABO anyone can influence its Modus Operandum and design, propose and support the actions you may want.
But you have to be proactive. Leaving it to others doesnt work.
Repeat, IT DOESNT WORK!
Such actions may be a combination of direct action, media exposure, letter writing, flag waving and more.
Personally I'd like to have CRT re-branded the 'Charityless Charity' and shame them into submission.

Direct action appeals but I cant for the moment see a successful campaign. Besides the cost to the activist could be very high. But it may just be a price worth paying!
Perhaps a starting point is to get our thinking right.
Were dealing with an unsympathetic outfit that doesnt bat for boaters and does not have our interest at heart.
Every year it becomes more emboldened and turns the screw a little further on our boating lifestyle.
CRT operates a rachet system where they demand more, get it and peg it. Then do it again. So far we've fallen for it every time!

So my last thought is a caveat.
If your not at the table you're on the menu.
We boaters are on the menu. We need to taste foul so they stop eating us.

Simon Greer. Canalboat Arabia Macclesfield Canal

[matty40s]

Well in the context of the full email, John Dodwell's response looks like part of a reasoned and reasonable reply - from a fellow boater.I liked his point about the Oxford. I don't know how often Martty40s has been down the South Oxford, but he paints a picture of creeping dereliction. The infrastructure isn't great, but I have been up and down there every year for the last 10 years and it ain't no better, and it ain't no worse that any other year.

bill,its matty seeing as you want to get personal.

I move boats amongst other things, for a living, and see most of the network on a regular basis.

Stop pretending this won't affect you at some point soon.

I only pinpointed the problems on the s oxford to alert other boaters as to potential delays.

I am dismayed at the towpath negligence this year. Far worse than last year and being encouraged by the new hessian sausages.

you use a scythe now, john dodwell says ok, but not too often.

so next year you cant scythe it clear because a little sign has been installed .

"Conservation Area"

 

Wake up, see what is happening, or if you keep trolling, fek orf

[davidc]

CRT like politicians do not like bad publicity have knowing campaigns in the past that got a lot out of well design car window stickers and the more on display the more it embarrassed the politicians

 

So how about boat window stickers and the more boaters to display them the better .

 

Just some thoughts

[Sir Nibble]

Worrying that my tongue in cheek rant inciting vandalism has gained 3 greenies!

Don't do it!

This need careful consideration, not spite.

[davidc]

Boaters accept risk.

 

Do boaters now want less risk than in the days when the canals were first built for commercial purposes?

 

Things happen

 

Accessibility, all for it but there is a token of realism required also, and Ieam only a token, inclusivity is important.

 

The post in question - I meet people who say before they think every day, I reckon I may be one of them. If mr did well (he thinks) stands by his statement then he needs to re-consider his position as only a fool criticises 30% of the business income as being small players in the value business.

 

Action is not needed other than:-

 

Dear CRT official,

 

We know you read this and we encourage you to exercise your right of reply. In not doing so we understand that you have not learnt the first mantra of charity status "do not cut off the hand that feeds you".

 

Apologies, rant over.

 

 

Do we have his email address or where can we find CRT directors email address, I up to sending that example

[NB Lola]

CRT like politicians do not like bad publicity have knowing campaigns in the past that got a lot out of well design car window stickers and the more on display the more it embarrassed the politicians

 

So how about boat window stickers and the more boaters to display them the better .

 

Just some thoughts

Like " wake up CRT from the 30% ers"

[cheshire~rose]

I turn away from my PC for half a day and when I get back there are 7 pages to wade through!

 

I am deeply saddenned by what I am reading. I am so grateful to Cotswoldman and Jenlyn and others who have engaged CRT with the very best possible intentions and I feel angry that all that time and effort appears to have been wasted.

 

Dave and I attended one of the meetings and in no way had any personal axe to grind. We went along purely to try and get a handle on what was happening and wanted to feel part of the apparent new era of opportunity to engage with CRT on a level playing field.

 

As hurt and sad as I am about CRT showing their true colours I think it is very important that while we all be seen to stand up and ensure our voices are heard we do not antagonise them or write them off. They are here to stay and won't be going away so we need a group of intelligent people who can work together and communicate effectively to show us the way forward.

[cotswoldsman]

Yes they are here to stay and they have a monopoly that is why they do not need to listen but I actually did think for a while that they were prepared to work with their customers to move forward and put an end to some of the bickering

[matty40s]

Worrying that my tongue in cheek rant inciting vandalism has gained 3 greenies!

Don't do it!

This need careful consideration, not spite.

the fact that you have felt the need to start posting again srnibbs is an obvious gesture.....

[churchward]

Yes they are here to stay and they have a monopoly that is why they do not need to listen but I actually did think for a while that they were prepared to work with their customers to move forward and put an end to some of the bickering

I can understand for the moment you feel used and a bit despondent but there is a good deal of good will amongst the forum and no doubt other boaters to plug into I think and hopefully something positive can come out of that and what has been started. Whether that is a new boaters organisation or something else is another matter I guess. Time will tell.

[RLWP]

Yes they are here to stay and they have a monopoly that is why they do not need to listen but I actually did think for a while that they were prepared to work with their customers to move forward and put an end to some of the bickering

 

John, you have done an absolutely fantastic job, and have been given an undeserved kick in the teeth. It's time for you to have a bit of a pause sitting on the bench to recover while others build on the things you have achieved. When you get your breath back, we need you

 

Shall I fetch the magic sponge?

 

Richard

 

I would have done that all with cricket analogies, but I don't understand the ridiculous game

[Ray T]

 

 

I would have done that all with cricket analogies, but I don't understand the ridiculous game

 

Richard

 

but hey ho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_cricket

 

Plus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fielding_(cricket)

Edited August 15, 2013 by Ray T

[DeanS]

So if I do nothing...things will get worse?

Is this the belief of the majority?

 

I'd rather just shut up and go boating.

 

The system cant get any worse as it is with low water levels, leaking locks, stiff swing bridges, lack of boats, lack of public support for CRTs tent sellers, and boaters growing distrust of CRT's leadership.

 

The reality however, is that even with all of this, I'm thrilled to be a boater, and I'm overcoming all those hurdles in my own way.

Edited August 15, 2013 by DeanS

[Guest]

The issue for me seems to be one of accountability, there just doesn't seem to be any.

 

Ultimately if we are unhappy about what the Trust is or is not doing where do we go?

 

If you are unhappy about your treatment in the NHS you can go to the Health Service Ombudsman or the relevant clinicians regulatory body, if unhappy with your insurer you have an ombudsman you can ultimately call on' the same as financial services.

 

CRT seem to be able just to do what the heck they like because it appears (to me at least) there is no one to hold them to account.

 

Charities commission perhaps??? but I suspect they will be more or even only interested in the financial operation not unhappiness with the disdain they are treating their paying customers.

[DeanS]

unhappiness with the disdain they are treating their paying customers.

 

I'm sure many boaters are quite happy with the way things are though........and often something that might be affecting boaters in one area, isnt affecting boaters in another area, so it's not a pain felt by all....I agree with your comment about accountability.

[PeteLeigh]

Pete Leigh Why am I not surprised ? Everyone knows that canals were built as high speed cycle routes, the water feature added for fishermen, and of course the tow path is for doggy do-dos. Obviously my boat licence pays for 'heritage signs'

[Jerra]

 

I'm sure many boaters are quite happy with the way things are though.......

I am sure they are but that isn't the problem the problem is how things are going to be when boaters are a minority consideration. When the low levels you mention never fill up/get dredged, when the swing bridges cease to swing etc.