CRT No Longer Wish To Meet With Boaters

[billS]

OK - so forgive me again for departing from the Forum orthodoxy, but why not approach this throught the IWA. (I'm not a member of the IWA, I'm not really a "joiner" either, but the contents of the email make me think I ought to look at joining)

[RLWP]

Incidentally, this is from the minutes of the last NUF:

 

 

Canal World Forum – not strictly a national organisation but a wide-ranging group who are very much engaged with waterways. It was important that the Trust reached out to the new groups that were now engaged with waterways

 

We had four representatives at the last meeting

 

Richard

[cotswoldsman]

I was astonished to discover that licence payers were not automatically "friends".

I will refrain from commenting I thought we were "Friends" seems that we are only 30% Friends

[madcat]

I'm gutted, I have been so grateful for the efforts made by Cotswoldman ,Jenlyn and others to represent boaters interests and to communicate with CaRT. I find it hard to believe that a supposed charity can behave in such a high handed manner.

Other users may be important but the boats are the key to the whole thing.

Boaters need a strong voice which includes all varieties of boater, all the divisions and snobbyness are counterproductive.

Provisional wing of the IWA ?

[cotswoldsman]

OK - so forgive me again for departing from the Forum orthodoxy, but why not approach this throught the IWA. (I'm not a member of the IWA, I'm not really a "joiner" either, but the contents of the email make me think I ought to look at joining)

People should do what they think is best to have their voice heard and if they think that is best via the IWA then go for it. I have never joined the IWA as they have always made a point of saying they are not a Boating Organisation.

[billS]

Incidentally, this is from the minutes of the last NUF:

 

 

We had four representatives at the last meeting

 

Richard

 

You were an individual member of a forum. You can't represent a discussion forum - that would like turning up and saying I represent London because I happen to live there.

Edited August 15, 2013 by billS

[pearlygeoff]

I'm glad you now realise what these vile people are like. I was told in meetings I arranged with Julie Sharman in 2007 that they would only speak to user groups stuffed, as they are, with members of boat clubs who are in league with them in their abuse of people who live on boats and are their 'eyes and ears', i.e.spies, and have been for years.

I fear some form of direct action is necessary for those in areas where there are plenty of boats, There are very few boats where I am but much 'abuse' as it is in the area under the 'surveillance' of the Shropshire Union Canal Society and Nantwich Boat- or rather- Cruising Yacht Club, the originators of the 'let's make the whole canal a 48 hour mooring' plan.

 

No point talking to them, no point talking about them. Time, not for 'compliance' but 'disobedience'.

 

My original complaints to them, 6 years ago, were about their treatment of people living on boats with a temporary, or otherwise, health problem and need for access to medical services. They, then 'harassed' me when I had numerous medical appointments after a serious illness. They are now adamant that they, as a private charity and 'not a public body', don't have to comply with the Disability Act 2010. Jill Overum , the unbelievably ignorant Northern Enforcement manager, recently said in court that if a person, or their partner, needs temporary medical care and needs to stay in one place to access that care that would be ok but there would be a charge. And that charge would be? £25 per day or £175 per week.

 

They are the most disgusting people I have ever dealt with and their 'enforcement staff' are ignorant beyond belief. Deliberately employed for their ignorance and lack of interest in the waterways and lack of empathy for people who live on boats And these people are 'empowered' to issue eviction notices as issued to me in the winter of 2009/2010, the coldest for 30 years ice a foot thick.

 

I will be fighting them to the death and I trust you now acknowledge my comparisons with 30's Germany. A vile dictatorship is being allowed to take over the waterways for their own ends and no-one is doing anything about it. I have pursued my complaint down every avenue and will continue to do so, if only to say that I have followed all the procedures, what comes next is no-one's fault but theirs (and of course their collaborators).

.

[AndrewIC]

Entirely unsurprised, I'm afraid. I have recently had dealings with front office and bankside staff (and volunteers), and they were, as ever, excellent, cheerful and very helpful. But corporately it seems that C&RT have inherited BW's status as "the enemy".

[RLWP]

 

You were individual member of a forum. You can't represent a discussion forum - that would like turning up and saying I represent London because I happen to live there.

 

I am an individual member of this forum AND I am the nominated representative to the NUF. In a deeply flawed but normal-for-CWDF process I got nominated in this thread: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58929

 

So, like it or lump it - what do people want me to say or do?

 

Richard

[Ray T]

I like others am saddened at this news - I thought it was progress, especially the initiative to take CRT employees boating.

 

I only was involved at a peripheral level but felt it was good for both your average boater and CRT employee.

John and Jenlyn I too am grateful for your efforts.

 

Would it be possible to approach CRT and ask them to leave the door slightly ajar for the future?

 

Now that discussion has been suspended can I call them CART without fear of retribution?

[RLWP]

I'm glad you now realise what these vile people are like. I was told in meetings I arranged with Julie Sharman in 2007 that they would only speak to user groups stuffed, as they are, with members of boat clubs who are in league with them in their abuse of people who live on boats and are their 'eyes and ears', i.e.spies, and have been for years.

.

{snip}

 

I would hardly describe the Ramblers association, British Canoe Union or The Steamboat Association in that way

 

Richard

Now that discussion has been suspended can I call them CART without fear of retribution?

 

Shall I ask Vince at the NUF?

 

Richard

[dmr]

Dear Cotswoldman,

 

I have not met you yet, but hope to at the Brum floating market.

You appear to be the sort of man who can make things happen...so

What I think is needed is a new organisation/umbrella organisation, not just of unaffiliated boaters, but of everybody who has an interest in boats and navigation. Boaters, Hire boat operators, boat builders, marinas, chandlers, and even those walkers who like to see boats on the canal.

 

Sadly the various boating groups spend too much energy squabbling amongst themselves but the tone of your eMail from CaRT suggests that the real divide in CaRTs eyes is between boats/navigation and "towpath users". We need to stand up for Boating!

 

.............Dave

[nicknorman]

John, sorry for your frustration and annoyance after you put in so much hard work. It does seem a bit of an "own goal" for CRT. Even if they were not really interested in what boaters had to say, how hard would it be to pretend to listen to us from time to time? As it is, they are just made to look arrogant and foolish. Perhaps they will reconsider in time, maybe a press article or two would be good for making them think again?

[bassplayer]

People should do what they think is best to have their voice heard and if they think that is best via the IWA then go for it. I have never joined the IWA as they have always made a point of saying they are not a Boating Organisation.

So what are you and Jenlyn and co going to do now? Any ideas? Any motivation left?

[Burgiesburnin]

I don't know this John Dodwell person from a bar of soap but this is a person that has gone out of his way to ensure that the reader of the quote understands the disdain that he feels for boaters. His intention is to ensure that the insignificance of boaters is understood and seems to do this in almost a vicious manner. He means to be hurtful and offend.

Something had happened to change this person. It would appear that most people were happy with his relationship with boaters prior to this "outburst"

[pearlygeoff]

RWLP

Thanks for your, typically, stupid comment. I obviously mean boat related user groups.

 

Your pathetic sniping is hardy constructive but I suppose it keeps you amused.

[nicknorman]

What is the situation now with RMPs -stalled, or still continuing?

[billS]

Cotswoldsman - is that the entire email from John Dodwell? If not, can we see the rest? It's difficult to be sure if he is expressing his own views, or passing on an official view, which he personally disagrees with, in a wry manner.

Edited August 15, 2013 by billS

[jenlyn]

So what are you and Jenlyn and co going to do now? Any ideas? Any motivation left?

Loads of motivation. We will move on. 14 day moorings will not be eradicated for a start. The SEVM rubbish will fail, pathetically, mainly because the volunteers wont last. Patrol officers are dropping like flies in the south east, they can only hack it for so long. The number checkers are inconsistent, so much so, that a nag member had to point out his index number to the checker, because he had not bothered to look, but did the next boat. This suggests the data collected is false, as we have stated all along. The whole enforcement process is ragged, from top to bottom. Keep a log, trust me, you will at some point need to refer to it.

[Leo No2]

I am indeed saddened by this. I thought better of John Dodwell but I suspect there may be more to this than meets the eye. I think John and Jenlyn need to time to dust themselves down before starting again - anything done immediately may not have the considered thought it needs - I think all we can do is offer our 'sympathy' to those that have spent time cultivating a relationship with CRT which they clearly don't wish, at the moment, to continue. I think it is also time to look in the mirror and perhaps ask ourselves 'What can we do to help give boaters a voice with CRT'.

 

You all have my support - I'll do what I can to help - just send me a PM and I'll be there.

 

Time to go and check the Stoke Bruerne moorings!

[RLWP]

RWLP

Thanks for your, typically, stupid comment. I obviously mean boat related user groups.

 

Your pathetic sniping is hardy constructive but I suppose it keeps you amused.

 

You have anagrammed me.

 

Look, I know it's nice to create conspiracies, the attendees of the NUF are:

 

 

Association of Pleasure Craft Operators

Association of Waterways Cruising Clubs

BMF Tourism

Boat Museum Society

British Canoe Union

British Horse Society

British Marine Federation

British Rowing

Canal Boat Builders’ Association

Canal World Forum

Commercial Boat Operators Association

Country Land & Business Association

DBA Barge Association

Electric Boat Association

Historic Narrow Boat Owners’ Club

Inland Waterways Association

National Association of Boat Owners

National Bargee Travellers Association

National Community Boat Association

Ramblers’ Association

Residential Boat Owners’ Association

Royal Yachting Association

Steam Boat Association of Great Britan

Sustrans

The Angling Trust

The Boating Association

Wooden Canal Boat Society

Canal Travel

 

I'm afraid it doesn't match your description

 

Richard

[sassan]

Hi John, I've not been involved in the great work you have been doing, but it has caught my attention and interested me.

 

I would support you in forming a more formal organisation to represent our interests.

 

To those discussing "direct action", or "civil disobedience" (in form of license non-payment or other means), I suggest caution. It is more effective if we move as one, if we are in a position to threaten non-payment of license by even as little as 20% of boaters, or the blocking of navigation to hire boats on every waterway in the country, we might achieve something (probably without even needing to take the risks involved in actually acting!). If a few people act alone then we will simply see the angriest people evicted before anyone else is willing to act and the cycle will continue until only the most passive are left.

 

I think a series of collaborating organisations, unions, whatever, one representing each group of waterways and one representing those boaters who don't consider themselves to belong within any one region would be best. I know that most people on the K&A would be much more willing to join a local organisation than a national one. Representatives from each group can vote on their members behalf on a national representative to interact with CRT.

 

It would be great to be able to continue the work John has done in setting up friendly discussion with CRT. And if we have might also, the discussions can be more equal and respect more mutual.

[RLWP]

I don't know this John Dodwell person from a bar of soap but this is a person that has gone out of his way to ensure that the reader of the quote understands the disdain that he feels for boaters. His intention is to ensure that the insignificance of boaters is understood and seems to do this in almost a vicious manner. He means to be hurtful and offend.

Something had happened to change this person. It would appear that most people were happy with his relationship with boaters prior to this "outburst"

 

John Dodwell: https://www.waterways.org.uk/iwa_publications/waterways_mag/february_2012/meet_the_trustees

 

C&RT trustee

 

Richard

[madcat]

Now now, its not time to be falling out, we must stick together. The way forward is to recognise our common concerns and try not to trip over the differences.

I too have very little fondness for the policies of the Shropshire Union Canal Society and their ilk ,they've spoiled the Shroppie carpet bombing it with 48 hr mooring signs. Leisurely holiday ? I don't think so.

Time for a strong and inclusive boaters group me thinks.

[onionbargee]

Bit of a Bongo bongo made out of nothing story. I don't think CRT has disowned us yet.