green and keen.

[KarlosMacronius]

Hello,

My partner and I are thinking of taking the plunge and living on the canals. neither of us have any experience of boating but have looked into it extensively (which is no doubt nowhere near enough!) and booked ourselves on a narrowboat handling course, we figure it would be a good idea to learn how to manouvre 15 tons of steel properly before trying to steer our home around other peoples homes...

 

we are on a somewhat limited budget but know the kind of boat we're after and a few weeks ago I found one that looks to be everything we are looking for.

She is 40' trad, built in 1991 and priced at £19,750 (reduced from 22,000). The interior is livable and seems to be what we're after (fine but needs updating). However I contacted the broker for a few more details i.e when she last had her hull blacked, anodes changed etc. and was told (after a bit of prompting) that she hasnt been out of the water for the last 6 or 7 years.

 

This has put us off a little as im not sure what state the hull is likely to be in, but then I guess I never really will be before a survey...

 

I would just like to know if members with more experiance think its worth thinking seriously about this boat or if we should steer clear.

 

Also with regards to the full survey, if we make an offer subject to the survey (i.e the hull being sound) but it is found that the hull is not and the seller wont reduce the price accordingly or get the work done before sale (or the work cant be done), presumably we have no way of getting that money back and have lost a chunk of our boat fund?

 

Basically im reluctant to pay for a survey if theres a good chance the hull is shot...

 

Thanks for any advice, sorry for rambling.

Karl.

[onionbargee]

I feel your pain..........the survey process is a real PITA, the seller should have it done before selling it, but then it's open to a bent surveyour over looking problems, and a survey report is a cast iron worded document that ensures the surveyour has no legal liability for the job you just paid him to do !

 

some surveyours will sting you for a 5 page report on the colour of the curtains and such, you could specify hull up to the waterline only, which should be a discounted fee.

[Laurie Booth]

I would keep looking at other boats. Seems odd that the seller knows so little about the boat and hasn't had the boat blacked.

[KarlosMacronius]

heres the boat for a bit more info... http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=254528

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Most boats buyers need a survey which has a cost. On the result of the survey a buyer can dicker on the price. If the seller and the buyer cannot agree on the final price no sale. The seller has lost a sale and the buyer has lost the price of the survey. If when the boat is dry docked you can agree on a price then it is up to you to do any work needed like anodes shot blasting and painting with two pack. If you agree on a sale subject to survey then you have both entered into a contact. Talk to Virginia Curry about returnable deposit.

Edited May 8, 2013 by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

[Ex- Member]

I feel your pain..........the survey process is a real PITA, the seller should have it done before selling it, but then it's open to a bent surveyour over looking problems, and a survey report is a cast iron worded document that ensures the surveyour has no legal liability for the job you just paid him to do !

 

some surveyours will sting you for a 5 page report on the colour of the curtains and such, you could specify hull up to the waterline only, which should be a discounted fee.

 

Good idea although I suspect the costs of getting to the boat in the first place is a good proportion of the fee. Still worth asking for quotes for just that though. Anything above the water line can easily be assessed by anyone with some decent basic knowledge, and agree that there's little comeback if a survey is incorrect.

[luctor et emergo]

There is nothing that a 'surveyor' does, that you can not do yourself with a hammer. It you hit it, and no holes appear, good. If holes do appear, walk away.

[Mike Tee]

I've never bought a boat through a broker. Is it standard practise to shell out a deposit before the survey, and then hope that any problems will justify getting it back if you decide to walk away?

 

I can't think of anything else that is purchased like this, seems very loaded in favour of the broker. Even a house purchase can be walked away from after a survey. And if I liked a car enough to get, say, an AA check, I would not expect to pay a deposit up front.

 

To my way of thinking, the deposit is to hold something I had definitly decided to buy while I arranged the bulk of the money, sorted insurance, arranged pick-up or whatever. If I fail to get finance, that is my problem and I lose the deposit.

[john6767]

I believe that is the standard practice with brokers, at least that was how it worked for us, and I agree it is a bit of a strange way. I think the way it worked was something like a 5% deposit and if any issues found by the survey amounted to 5% you could have the deposit back and walk away. Of course you can always refuse to do it that way.

[carlt]

There is nothing that a 'surveyor' does, that you can not do yourself with a hammer. It you hit it, and no holes appear, good. If holes do appear, walk away.

also if the owner is reluctant to let you tap it with a hammer walk away.

 

I use the same survey method (with a geologist's hammer) when inspecting a Land-Rover chassis.

[RLWP]

also if the owner is reluctant to let you tap it with a hammer walk away.

 

I use the same survey method (with a geologist's hammer) when inspecting a Land-Rover chassis.

 

Presumably you make a judgement by the size of the pile of rust on the floor

 

Richard

[Laurie Booth]

Presumably you make a judgement by the size of the pile of rust on the floor

 

Richard

[onionbargee]

I looked at the boat link , i like it, very clean and bright inside, looks good.

[Caprifool]

I have that one stored amongst my favourites.

[Ex- Member]

I didn't realise that deposits were required on boats pending a survey, what utter nonsense is that. I certainly wouldn't leave a deposit on a boat pending a survey even if the deposit was fully refundable, and if that being the case then what's the point of the deposit anyway.

 

Wacko

[ditchcrawler]

I didn't realise that deposits were required on boats pending a survey, what utter nonsense is that. I certainly wouldn't leave a deposit on a boat pending a survey even if the deposit was fully refundable, and if that being the case then what's the point of the deposit anyway.

 

Wacko

I "think" that way he doesn't sell it to someone else in the meantime.

[john6767]

I "think" that way he doesn't sell it to someone else in the meantime.

Yes I think that is the rational. In our case it was 3 weeks I think from having the offer accepted to getting the survey as that we the first availability of the crane to do the lift out. I must admit I did not like at the time but went along with it, and luckily in our case it was all fine.

[Ex- Member]

I "think" that way he doesn't sell it to someone else in the meantime.

 

 

Well personally I would turn that one on it's head and say to the seller, I like your boat and make an offer subject to survey, I'm willing to get and pay for a survey, but until I get the result from the survey can you guarantee me not to sell, and if you do so you will be liable to refund me the survey costs.

 

I can't see why anyone genuinely describing and selling a boat would accept those terms.

 

To be expected to pay a deposit then pay for a survey and then have to haggle (if the survey isn't up to scratch) with the seller who holds a deposit Not on your nelly

 

 

IMO this boat purchasing malarkey as it currently stands is deeply flawed if deposits under those circumstances are a requirement.

[junior]

I see the original steel spec is 8/6/4. Is this anything to take into account with a boat of this age that sounds like it hasn't been maintained will for the past 6/7 years?

[Ange]

Looks like a tidy boat to me - I haven't looked at the market recently so don't know how realistic the price is.

 

I may get shot down in flames for this but I wouldn't let the 6/7 years completely put you off. I'm still learning myself, but I understand that the important thing is where the boat has been during that time - if it's been moored in a marina with electric hook up then it could be a problem, but if it's been on line during that time it shouldn't be.

 

We have no hook up capability and live on line, when we took our boat out of the water for blacking last year the 3 year old annodes were still intact and didn't need replacing.

 

I'd say it'd be worth having a look at the boat - there's only so much you can glean from photographs - you may step aboard and hate it! (Or you may fall in love - then sometimes reason goes out of the window!)

[Guest]

I've never bought a boat through a broker. Is it standard practise to shell out a deposit before the survey, and then hope that any problems will justify getting it back if you decide to walk away?

 

This is indeed how it normally works when buying through a broker, you need to read the brokers conditions as to under what circumstances you get your deposit back, it can sometimes be a bit vague but normally if the survey uncovers something major and not easily/cheaply fixable then you get your deposit back and can walk away.

 

Less serious stuff can be used to re-adjust the price or the seller can be asked to fix it at their expense which is what happened when we bought our boat.

[Naughty Cal]

Im surprised that no one has asked if the OP is sure that 40ft is going to be big enough to live on.

 

It is indeed standard Broker practice to ask for a deposit up front. We haggled a little bit with our deposit as the boat was one of the brokers stock boats so we only put down a £500 deposit instead of the usual 5% deposit. We also knew that whatever the surveyor found wrong with the boat would be fixed as part of the deal. We paid top book price for the boat but it did come looking like a new boat. Luckily for us it has not lost a deal of value in the last five years.

[Alan&sue]

Im surprised that no one has asked if the OP is sure that 40ft is going to be big enough to live on.

 

It is indeed standard Broker practice to ask for a deposit up front. We haggled a little bit with our deposit as the boat was one of the brokers stock boats so we only put down a £500 deposit instead of the usual 5% deposit. We also knew that whatever the surveyor found wrong with the boat would be fixed as part of the deal. We paid top book price for the boat but it did come looking like a new boat. Luckily for us it has not lost a deal of value in the last five years.

Hi

Yes this was the same for us when we bought & sold our last (only boat we have had) boat through a broker, I no you pay top dollar but you do have some degree of protection in that the funds/ money isn't released until survey, paperworkI have been sorted.

 

Sue ( Avalon from York)