Kennet and Avon is open sewer

[johnmck]

Last year whilst on the Weaver, I got talking to an elderly chap who was on his own. Seemed a character. He moored I believe on the Bridgewater and has an annual trip onto the river as only one lock was involved in his journey from Manchester.

 

I don't really know how the conversation turned to waste disposal, but it did. I probably mentioned the lack of facilities in the general area. Wondering how he coped, his reply was,

" Chuck it in the river, I do. It does no harm"

 

I was somewhat dumbstruck !

[scrunch]

Carit I am with you 100% on non-compostable bags but the problem with putting it in the canal is really they are a slow moving waterway and there are a lot of dog walkers using the towpaths and a lot of boats with dogs on them making an awful lot of dog poo if everyone did it, also last year the amount of times we got dog poo on our shoes when picking fruit from the hedgerows was frequent.Rats eat dog poo I do know this for a fact not sure what other animal does except of course dogs.

The rock dove and rat would always be a health problem even without human intervention.

Of course I do believe that because we have become obsessed with cleanliness anti bacterial wipes for everything children are brought up in a enviroment where the slightest bugs down them , I have no medical evidence to back this up just hear my mum saying a bit of muck wont hurt you and on the farm where I worked can remember eating my sandwwiches on the back of the muck spreader.

But I still stand by dog poo should go somewhere other than the cut or hedgerow, would it be possible to have sunken bins for it I can understand then that it would degrade naturaly by the way I have had dogs and cats now cats are a real pain in the end we now have a itter tray in the garden. Hands up to where the cat poo goes in the bin landfill so I probably just as bad, I give up.

[Jerra]

The crap that humans leave about has turned much of our carnivorous wildlife into carrion feeders carrying disease that we have given them.

I don't suppose you could post a reference or two for that could you? I have tried but haven't found any and I haven't seen any diseased animals around, certainly none with diseases man has given them.

 

As somebody who has spent my life in the country and worked with animals much of my life I am genuinely interested in the problem so any help with references would be very much appreciated.

[haggis]

That (Dean emptying his Elsan at the station) reminds me of a holiday we had many years ago. It was a coach trip and 2 weeks camping in Spain. The busses were never really cleaned as they were turned round almost right away at both ends of the trip. We were passing Paris in the middle of the night when I became aware of signalling between the driver and the relief driver who was at the loo door. When i asked him a wee while later what was hapenning he told me that they had just emptied the bus loo onto the road. I was careful to keep a safe distance when driving behind long distance tour busses after that. That was the cheapest holiday we ever had but we were squashed like sardines in the bus and it stank! However, when we got to Spain, they had overbooked and we were put up in a hotel for the first week. Best campsite I have ever been on :-)

 

haggis

Edited April 20, 2013 by haggis

[carlt]

The rock dove and rat would always be a health problem even without human intervention.

Without the rubbish that man leaves out for wildlife to eat the rock dove would be in its natural habitat, cliffs (the clue's in the name).

 

Vermin are just animals fed by humans that we don't call pets.

 

As far as what to do with dog poo I'm with the Woodland Trust and the National Trust....If at all possible "Stick and Flick" out of harm's way. If this isn't possible pick it up in a compostable bag and take it home

 

If you put it in a polythene bag then you are just creating a problem concentrated in one place for generations to come.

 

I had a sunken bin, when I lived aboard, as concentrating all the waste in one location is no better than landfill.

 

Now we have a house with an outside toilet it gets processed just like our human poo.

 

I don't suppose you could post a reference or two for that could you? I have tried but haven't found any and I haven't seen any diseased animals around, certainly none with diseases man has given them.

Anything you might call vermin.

 

I have given several examples.

[Rustykev]

An interesting topic and one close to my heart as I worked for 30 years in pollution control.

 

So to go back to the original thread and post about the filthy K&A and apply current thinking.

 

Bugs: The main culprits are E Coli and Viruses. E Coli are present in all animals, including humans and is excreted by all. E.Coli is not removed by sewage treatment, so even the treated sewage effluent discharged into rivers and canals is laced with this bacteria which if injected, can cause enteric ilness. E Coli is also washed off fields and roads, along with Viruses, so even the most transparent and clean water carries a risk of upset stomach if injested. Yes, raw sewage dumped in the canal is unsightly and wrong, but even if it were not, the risk is still present.

 

Oxygen depletion: Any organic matter present in water will deplete oxygen. It acts as a food source so that any bacteria present multiply. Given bugs are living creatures and breathe oxygen, then with all the organic food, the multiplying bugs use the oxygen dissolved in the water. In serious cases, when all the oxygen is used, the bugs source it from sulphates present in the water. These sulphates are reduced to sulphides, including the gas hydrogen sulphide or "rotten egg gas". Sulphides are black in colour, which is why the mud dragged up from the canal bed is black and smelly.

 

So, there we have it. A canal may be as clean as a whistle visually, but there is an awful lot of microbiology and chemistry going on that can affect a human if ingested.

 

And yes, I have fallen in, but fortunately with no ill effects.

[Jerra]

Anything you might call vermin.

 

I have given several examples.

 

And the disease that they have caught from man (i.e "we have given them")?

[carlt]

And the disease that they have caught from man (i.e "we have given them")?

Rock Doves, Mice, Rats etc are riddled with salmonella picked up from something they ate, that would be rubbish dumped by man.

[Rustykev]

Oh, I forgot to mention. Technically, all narrowboaters, me included, are commiting an offence, every day we use our boats when we do the washing up or have a shower - because we are discharging a polluting substance (the boat's grey water) into the canal without the appropriate permit.

[Guest]

Oh, I forgot to mention. Technically, all narrowboaters, me included, are commiting an offence, every day we use our boats when we do the washing up or have a shower - because we are discharging a polluting substance (the boat's grey water) into the canal without the appropriate permit.

Really???

 

An offence under which specific piece of legislation?

[Gillie]

There is a problem with sewage from the local area in Wilton Water at Crofton.

 

The reservoir feeds the summit of the K & A and for the last few summers has been full of foul smelling black oozy muck, went past there the other day and even now with the weather not too warm it was starting to build up.

 

I know they had been trying some kind of ecological control with islands full of some kind of grass i think , but these have now gone so not really sure what is happening with regard to cleaning it up.

 

Last year the water tap at Crofton bottom lock was out of action for ages because of contamination, which I think was all part of the ongoing problem.

 

So maybe it was that and not us dirty K&A boaty types....

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Is it ok to piss in the canal?

 

I once read in a gardening book that pissing up apple trees, particularly young ones, and especially if your an alcoholic, is good for them.

 

Can I apply this to any vegetation? I include the canal cause there's weeds and stuff.

[Rustykev]

Really???

 

An offence under which specific piece of legislation?

The Environmental Permiting Regulations 2010, Regulation 38 1(a) - Causing or Knowingly permiting a water discharge activity not authorised by an environmental permit.

[Gillie]

Supposed to be good on compost heaps I think...

[Guest]

The Environmental Permiting Regulations 2010, Regulation 38 1(a) - Causing or Knowingly permiting a water discharge activity not authorised by an environmental permit.

Never heard of it and I will await my day in court with trepidation...

[Grace and Favour]

>>>

 

So maybe it was that and not us dirty K&A boaty types....

Maybe both?

[Rustykev]

Is it ok to piss in the canal?

 

I once read in a gardening book that pissing up apple trees, particularly young ones, and especially if your an alcoholic, is good for them.

 

Can I apply this to any vegetation? I include the canal cause there's weeds and stuff.

 

Looked at chemically, pissing on vegitation can be contrued as good for the plant. Urine contains urea which, once it is outside the body quickly forms ammonia, itslef oxidised by natural bacteria to nitrates, nitrites and ultimately nitrogen. As we all know, nitrates/nitrogen are good for plants - helps them grow.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Supposed to be good on compost heaps I think...

Do I need a permit?

[Rustykev]

Never heard of it and I will await my day in court with trepidation...

 

You ought to - max fine £50,000 in Magistrates, unlimited in Crown court, including option of prison.

 

But fret not - no narrowboater has yet, to my knowledge, been hauled up for it!

 

Do I need a permit?

 

Hmm - depends how long you stay still. This offence is only relevant to fixed discharges. If you were to proceed along the towpath whilst relieving yourself, then thats fine. Stand in one spot for long enough and/or use the same spot daily and you might fall foul (sorry) of the law.

[Guest]

 

You ought to - max fine £50,000 in Magistrates, unlimited in Crown court, including option of prison.

 

But fret not - no narrowboater has yet, to my knowledge, been hauled up for it!

Scary stuff ... Should we be afraid? should we all sell our boats because we can't empty our washing up water into the cut any longer.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 

You ought to - max fine £50,000 in Magistrates, unlimited in Crown court, including option of prison.

 

But fret not - no narrowboater has yet, to my knowledge, been hauled up for it!

 

 

 

Hmm - depends how long you stay still. This offence is only relevant to fixed discharges. If you were to proceed along the towpath whilst relieving yourself, then thats fine. Stand in one spot for long enough and/or use the same spot daily and you might fall foul (sorry) of the law.

If I move on after 14 days to another place, that'd be alright?

[nb Innisfree]

Shit is our constant companion, individually we carry it around with us until we can get rid of it, some of it from animals becomes airborne and forms part of dust blowing around so we ingest it into our mouths, stomach, lungs, treading in it is the least of our problems. There's no escaping it so we might as well get used to it.

[Guest]

Ed for double post.

Edited April 20, 2013 by The Dog House

[ditchcrawler]

So you cannot see the problem of landfilling tons of waste in non-compostable bags? I give up too.

 

One example of a wild animal that we have turned into a disease ridden pest is the European Rock Dove (admittedly an omnivore), probably better known as the Street Pigeon or Flying Rat to those who blame it for its reputation rather than the humans who feed it filth.

 

You could also include rats, foxes and any other species that, as we deprive it of habitat, moves in with us and eats our rubbish, so we can then call it vermin.

 

I would be far more concerned about concentrating all that dog waste in one place than distributing it evenly to biodegrade relatively harmlessly in low concentrations.

We once had to de-man two offshore platforms because everyone went sick. The reason was some of the chaps were feeding pigeons in the mess hut, the bug spread through the whole crews.

 

Yes I can imagine a land fill site full of dog poo in plastic bags.

[Rustykev]

If I move on after 14 days to another place, that'd be alright?

 

Reckon so in my experience - kill two birds with one stone then (woops - another topic)

 

There is a problem with sewage from the local area in Wilton Water at Crofton.

 

The reservoir feeds the summit of the K & A and for the last few summers has been full of foul smelling black oozy muck, went past there the other day and even now with the weather not too warm it was starting to build up.

 

I know they had been trying some kind of ecological control with islands full of some kind of grass i think , but these have now gone so not really sure what is happening with regard to cleaning it up.

 

Last year the water tap at Crofton bottom lock was out of action for ages because of contamination, which I think was all part of the ongoing problem.

 

So maybe it was that and not us dirty K&A boaty types....

This is an issue of phosphate enrichment of the water - eutrophication to give its ecological term. Phosphate is the limiting nutrient for plants. When it arrives in abundance, the plant life takes off. Excess phosphates are a result of direct discharges of sewage effluent, or run-off form intensively farmed arable land. The Wilton issue is likely to be more of the latter. The black oozy muck is not sewage, but dead plant matter and entrapped silt that, because of bacterial activity, turns the weed clump septic within - see my post above re sulphates/sulphides.